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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR

 
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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/22/2010 5:06:01 AM   
Wild


Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline 		I think that taking Moscow is critical.
It is the main hub for the rail netwok, divides the soviet forces, has the largest population, probably still has a number of factories (even after evac), and like Jon said it's the center of the map.
Even though it's not chess, i think thats a good analogy. Given a choice i would always prefer to control the center of the board/map.
Also the morale boost to the germans plus the reverse for the soviets (don't know if thats factored in the game) makes moscow a target worth risking alot to take.

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/22/2010 9:56:16 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(DAR)...Armin's XXXIX PzC, alot of power there now. Spanked two Corps like there mother would. You'll see their routed and in the rear... I haven't even started with Model yet. This pressure should free Hoth, which shoud free Kleist...And Rostov is about to fall...




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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/22/2010 12:27:29 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		I see you've burned through a few years of recon vehicle production in a few weeks again, those vehicles shouldn't be coming back until late 1942/1943 when production increases.

I doubt you can keep up the pace if you have only a 3:1 exchange rate in AFV's, your Panzer III losses are pretty bad.

Your motorised/Panzer Grenadier squad losses are also ugly, for every 3 regular Riflemen you're losing a motorised/mechanized soldier, which looks like it's completely disproportionate to the relative amount of those squads in the Heer currently.

As you're losing so many quality troops, you're basically screwed if you can't take the objective you're aiming for (Moscow) and are forced to halt the advance short of the objective.

The Soviets losses are pretty bad too, though, so you should still have a chance.

How's the Luftwaffe holding up in terms of readiness/fatique?

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Post #: 333
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/22/2010 12:45:35 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		off hand, from what I remember, the numbers at start are around 3,600,000 troops for the Ge (not counting the Allies) and 6,200,000 men for the Russian

it looks like Jon is having to use his Armor as the hammer to open up his advances, that always hurts

for the LW, it is still 42, he is going to be having more losses to Flak and Oper, then to pure enemy fighters, but, bombers or transports that happened to get caught by the Russian fighters will have trouble, so the edge should still be with the LW



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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/22/2010 3:21:03 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		I should have post there was a 77 to 7 ratio in AFV's in Armin's attacks. Alot of those losses you see were breaking the hard crust of level 4 forts at the start...Were in open field attacks now and the Germans are starting to really kick ass...Alot of these (ss) show the value of units after they moved and attacked. The next turn they regain there strenght...

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/22/2010 4:14:19 PM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		As for scenario victory conditions, I'd vote for "combination criteria". Obviously loss of Moscow alone, or Leningrad, or Stalingrad would be not be enough. Speculative though what would have really led to a collapse of the red bear. But since it is after all a game with the possibility to change history, and supposedly not just a straight reenactment of history, the criteria can well be speculative. I'd vote for a WiR similar system, enhanced by losses: i.e. cities get points based on population, production facilities, railroad importance and maybe even political aspects. And then losses should be counted, too.

You'd win if held a line from Leningrad-Moscow-Stalingrad (inclusive), or by holding two of those and the oil to the south and a certain number of casualties while your forces are still above a certain threshold strenghts. Breaking the two lend-and-lease routes (Murmansk and the arabian) should also give points. If you'd hold less, you still be able to force surrender or a cease-fire if the red army gets bled down badly in >=42, having say two major cities plus only 30% more men left than axis at lower difficulty and maybe equal numbers at challenging. Then these thresholds for losses should also be a function of the year, i.e. in 42 the Germans need less force left over than in 44. And depending on the outcomes in Africa/Italy, or the Western Front, the Russion criteria for surrender should also change over time. So in late 41, or at the height of the Africa campaign in summer 42, the Russians should me more inclined to surrender than after the Normandy or Sicily events, for example.

Question: Can you still influence replacement rates in this game? Say more reinforcements and supply for the Panzers and Grenadiers? How exactly does the production system work? Is it static, or is influenced by events? I.e. after the events of winter 41 and summer 42, the Germans substantially cranked up their production, which subsequently lead to peak production rates in 44. If the summer 42 is better for them, will the production increase be slower? Or if 42 is an even worse disaster, will the production be pushed harder to reach peak already by late 43? It would be nice if that old WiR feature would still be dynamic, or even adjustable by the player since it is one of the major factors that can help you make a alternative history and see how the Germans fared if their economy had been cranked up earlier etc...
Similarly, is the player still in control of what new equipment gets put where, or is it all automatic in the TOE?





< Message edited by janh -- 4/22/2010 4:15:45 PM >

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/22/2010 4:26:17 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Ok guys this whole victory debate thing needs to move to a new thread. Start one and talk the night away. We would like to hear your veiws, but please not on my AAR...Also alot of this is Q&A stuff... Agian one more time, keep responces or questions to S&T here only. Jim and others will be glad to answer things elsewhere. I have my hands full with this AAR and my wife...lol...

< Message edited by PyleDriver -- 4/22/2010 4:38:50 PM >

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/23/2010 5:51:14 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(DAR) Manstein's 11th army assalted Rostov this week, and it is in German hands now. The XIV PzC was pulled back across the Don. The goal here now is to press to the Donets, secure the north south railline, and dig-in afterward. Oh yes I do know when to dig in...




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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/23/2010 6:50:41 PM   
wmcalpine

 

Posts: 131
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Status: offline 		PyleDriver,

Is your aim in the South to push to the Don and Donets and use that major river as a defensive line for the upcoming winter?

Bill

< Message edited by wmcalpine -- 4/23/2010 6:51:19 PM >

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/23/2010 8:57:46 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Yep, and pulling all my trucks up north for the push on Moscow. XIV PzC will remain in the area just incase...Sorry for the slow posts I've been under the weather this week...

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/23/2010 9:26:38 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Yeah, that's a perfectly good stop line in the South. There's nothing further to gain unless you intend to push into the Volga and Caucasus which is obviously not part of the plan here. (And we all know how well that worked out for the Germans in real life...)

With the XIV PzC rested up the Sovs are going to find that a hard line to crack. They've got other fish to fry anyways.

Edit: don't let them keep any bridgeheads on your side of the Don!



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 4/23/2010 9:29:59 PM >

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/23/2010 9:29:22 PM   
FM WarB

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		You speak of moving trucks around to move static, mostly infantry divisions. Why do inf divs need trucks to move?

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/23/2010 9:36:56 PM   
Naughteous Maximus


Posts: 301
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline 		I love the strategy you've been using through out your game, to bad the Germans didn't have any sense. I was wondering if you could tell me the composition of the XIV Panzer Korps? I know you have the 13th Panzer, but I don't know what else.

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Post #: 343
RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/24/2010 4:12:55 AM   
Captain B


Posts: 386
Joined: 8/30/2009
From: Knoxville, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Well, having once been a "light" infantry soldier, trucks carry all the crap you can't (extra ammo, rations, mortar rounds, the occassional hot chow, etc.); move you to where you need to be faster than your feet, and allow you to keep pace with the armor, well, almost keep pace with them. To quote an earlier post, it is all about Command and Control as well as logistics!

A foot soldier can do roughly 2-2.5 miles an hour marching for any kind of long distance. A truck can cover that same distance in 5 minutes. Go figure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FM WarB

You speak of moving trucks around to move static, mostly infantry divisions. Why do inf divs need trucks to move?



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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/24/2010 4:33:49 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		XIV PzC is made up of 13th PzD, Wiking SS, and the Slav MD...As far as trucks the HQs have them to keep supply rolling to units, other than that front line static units have horses and carts...The Soviets are suffering from the same problems at this stage in the war...Then Detroit kicks in for them later...

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/24/2010 3:09:39 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain B

Well, having once been a "light" infantry soldier, trucks carry all the crap you can't (extra ammo, rations, mortar rounds, the occassional hot chow, etc.); move you to where you need to be faster than your feet, and allow you to keep pace with the armor, well, almost keep pace with them. To quote an earlier post, it is all about Command and Control as well as logistics!

A foot soldier can do roughly 2-2.5 miles an hour marching for any kind of long distance. A truck can cover that same distance in 5 minutes. Go figure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FM WarB

You speak of moving trucks around to move static, mostly infantry divisions. Why do inf divs need trucks to move?




hmmm, as a X-Marine, I can say, we carry all the crap we got, since the Army has all of the trucks !

LOL, when I was in, they decided, maybe we should bring the 60 mike-mike back into the line companies, I was "picked" to be one of the lucky guys to try it, read the manual, the 60 mike-mike comes in 4 easy to carry parts, since only a mule would be able to carry it anywhere when it was all in one piece

guess who got to play mule !

8 months of training overseas, we get back, and they decide, that hey, it really should be a support weapon, so it should go to Weapon's Plt, and well, hey, it is too heavy to carry, lets give them Jeeps or tracks to carry the things !!!!!!!!

never did get to shoot the dang thing

one thing I did learn, I know why most troops that do use that old thing, only carry the tube into combat (baseplate, legs and sights, stay back in the wharehouse)



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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/24/2010 3:10:05 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		yea yea, I know Jon, shut up

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/24/2010 3:12:10 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Hum, lets see...

Marines infantry walk, crawl, swim...
Army infantry, crawls, walks, rides...
Army tankers blow up stuff and run over stuff...

<- insert Andy and his helos.... -> 

from an old Army Guy...


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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/24/2010 4:37:11 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		(DAR) Well Model's 9th is chewing up ground. They battled over Torzhok. There in postion to really press hard on Moscows northern flank...Notice the railhead...




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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/25/2010 3:49:14 PM   
SGHunt


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From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline 		Jon

I hope you are feeling better because I need to know what's happening with Hoth and Kleist!

I can't work out what you do with Armin now (although I see how his Corp's thrust has secured 9th Army's flank and rail link) - does he cut back to Lake Ilmen to create a pocket, does he invest Vyshny or does he link with Model more directly in pushing at Moscow?

And, for the 9th, and after Kalinin, do you go North or South of the marshes?

Stuart

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/25/2010 4:21:49 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
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Status: offline 		Stuart I have been really sick, so much I can't focus on the game. Bear with me I even went to the emergency room this week, I was that bad...The good news is I'm feeling a little better now, and hope I can get the AAR rolling agian for you guys soon...Sucks getting old...

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/25/2010 5:27:36 PM   
PyleDriver


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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		This (DAR) will give you guys an idea of how one area takes alot of thought. I had to attack the pocket in the rear now, poor 17th PzD, still in refit took another big hit...LVI PzC joined with 2nd PzA to cut a hole in the line and snuck 10th MD across the Oka. Hubes PzC joined with XIII corps and are blasting out the line...The question, as I'm not sure if I have enough power to do both, do I close the pocket or press another bridgehead over the Oka...Hum...There is a build up of Soviets on my right, I really need to clean up this mess so I can free up 2nd PzA to move east to guard Hoths right...




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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/25/2010 6:19:22 PM   
SGHunt


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Status: offline 		Jon

Now I feel bad (hey, but not that bad!)- I am glad you are feeling better and that there's nothing seriously wrong. I'm sure the game will bring you comfort.

Does your most Northerly 3 unit (29-34) stack, the one that I presume has just routed two Russian units, have the legs to blast through both of them again and attack the HQ over the Oka? Or are there likely to be units we can't see lurking there? Either way, it may still be the best route to and over the Oka AND help cut off the Tula, or provide support for setting up the Tula pocket. I think I'd pull back the foremost Panzer Division and use it and the 2 x 3 unit stacks to support that attack and hold open a corridor. And possibly launch another attack on the two ? units northeast of the Guards 2=5 Division North of Tula to create the pocket.

God, this sounds like gobbledygook but I hope if you read it with the map to look at it makes sense.

S

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/25/2010 6:46:41 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Stuart, your like a guy thats has to watch a porno flick and not able to jump in...lol...Yes I'm feeling better thanks, however your just going to have to wait, as others, to see how this ends. I have to draw out the suspence of the game. Damn they should be paying me (or my wife says so)...lol...Btw I'm going for both. I need the pocket closed, and a bridgehead for Hoth. The railheads just keep an eye on them. I'm able to keep the supply I need to spank these guys around if there close...

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/25/2010 8:16:55 PM   
SGHunt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Stuart, your like a guy thats has to watch a porno flick and not able to jump in...


Funny you should mention that...
S

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/27/2010 1:32:41 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Well Hoth tried and there was reserves pouring in like flies. The Tula pocket looks hopeless, and my right is still my concern. I did had some good victories south of the Oka and we will press on...Oh and what about Kleist?...




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< Message edited by PyleDriver -- 4/27/2010 1:36:04 AM >

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/27/2010 1:51:12 AM   
Bronze

 

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Status: offline 		Are there not enough MPs for the motorized division to dislodge the understrength rifle division and make a pocket (with the other motorized division coming down to seal the pocket) around TUla? +/- pre-bombardment?

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/27/2010 2:23:14 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		No there pretty much spent (burnt out). You need to keep an eye out for counters and get ready for the next week. I did get that railhead 30 miles closer...

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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/27/2010 3:03:31 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Well armor losses keep mouting...This is an overview on level four...Alot of pressure is still on Moscow. Kleist is still yet to move...




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RE: OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR - 4/27/2010 12:53:38 PM   
wiking62


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Status: offline 		Looking good Jon. I am looking forward to seeing von Kleists next moves.

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