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Stacked Units - 7/23/2002 9:26:13 AM   
sg

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Brick, N.J.
Status: offline 		This really gets me steamed!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
I'm playing MCW, and am being assaulted by hordes of Japanese infantry on Bloody Ridge. I'm holding them off with limited arty and bad losses of my own men. I call in my last salvo of 105mm on a hex I suspect is loaded with Japs and the strike is right on target. Next turn I move a fully manned and armed unit one hex forward to inspect the bombarded hex, and lo and behold...the mother load...11 Jap units!!!! 7 of them are routed, 2 are retreating and 1 is pinned. No one shoots at me...I have pick of the litter. Here's the part where I get mad, no matter what unit I shoot at, I get a couple of casualties on one or two squads who retreat back, then the unit I targeted takes a casualty and retreats....and my unit STOPS SHOOTING....never getting to use its SMG or Hand Grenades. The remaining Japs who were a moment ago cowering and running, now each get an op fire at my heroic marines who get clobbered!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

What do you guys do in that situation??? Looking for suggestions. If I had any arty left, I'd fall back and just bomb them back to Tokyo but none left.

Oh BTW, thats another thing, Why do we only get max 2 op fires and the AI seems to get as many as can target your unit? Just wondering.

Steve

_____________________________

"****, we're in a tight spot!"
Ulysses Everett McGill.
Post #: 1
- 7/23/2002 11:44:24 AM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		You don't get 2 max opfires to my knowledge.

I've seen a single MG take 6 shots in the enemy players turn, 6 shots in its own turn, and 6 shots in the enemy players turn before a 120mm mortar erm...silenced...it.

That or maybe I'm crazy, you never know with me.

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 2
- 7/23/2002 12:28:32 PM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		You have to be careful in a spot like that because shooting at routed units can cause them to become pinned and fire back. I know that Russians while defending can go from routed to ready with one shot. Im sure the japs have somehting like that too.

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-Edmund Morris


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Post #: 3
- 7/23/2002 12:40:30 PM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Yes, Japanese are Tenacious Defenders in I think the same way Russians are.

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 4
- 7/23/2002 1:26:56 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		The japs can, if you have flame or satchel charge then attack the Hex, sometimes that causes more casualties

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 5
- 7/23/2002 2:13:45 PM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Bigger splash damage, and we all know how much the Japs hated dem flamers.

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 6
- 7/23/2002 3:09:27 PM   
antarctic

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 5/24/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Why do we only get max 2 op fires [/QUOTE]

I think the number of normal opfires you get is dependant on the number of shots your unit has left at the end of tis turn.... at least for some other versions of SP.. not sure bout SPWAW, as well as experience, leadership etc. Also, you get 'Special" opfire... but I don't really know much about that either.. :-)

Antarctic

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"Quantity has a quality of its own"
-Stalin

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 7
Here is a couple of suggestions - 7/23/2002 6:36:16 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		If all the units are retreated and routed.
1. Move a halftrack into the hex and Overrun them. You can if you get lucky kill every single unit with one overrun.
2. If your marine has a flame thrower. Right click on you unit and Shut all the other weapons off and Just hit the stack with the Flame Thrower this will flame the whole hex and do much more damage.
3. Same as #2 but if you have a Flame tank handy.
4. If your marine has extra movement move him into the hex with all the other stacked units. From here you have two choices.
A. Now that you are in the hex the units will not retreat when you fire on them. So fire away. Be careful though with so many other Japs in the hex one is bound to wake up and fire back. This is not such a bad thing though because ussually he will do more damage to his own units than yours.
B. Also at this point you can try assulting the whole group of units. I have never had much success with this so be forwarned.

Hope this helps.

_____________________________

"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 8
- 7/23/2002 6:41:21 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		The AI does get a better opfire ratio to compensate for it's lack of "seeing the big picture", I believe.

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Got StuG?

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Post #: 9
- 7/23/2002 9:17:02 PM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with Gary Tatro, your 1st choice in these situations should be to Over Run the dazed units. (ALT-O) This often uses the fewest shots to eliminate units. Half-tracks are my favored equipment to perform over-runs, since they can often perform TWO over-runs in the same hex, but i use light tanks to make sure there arent 'Ready' units present to attack when one moves into adjacent hexes.

Dont forget that you can rally your unit which took the op-fire to gain back its hit probability and shots.

Make sure your track/tank will have enuf movement points to get out of the hex if you plan to cleanup any leftover units there with a flamethrower, so you dont supress or kill your own unit.

My LAST choice in these situations is to use normal leg small arms fire. This type of attack I save for cleaning up any oneses or tweses left after the other types of attacks.

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(in reply to sg)
Post #: 10
- 7/24/2002 1:37:38 AM   
fud

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/6/2002
Status: offline 		Here's a trick that sometimes works for me....

Take a look at the percentages. If you fire at a unit that you have a very high likelyhood of hitting, chances are you will not fire all your weapons. Instead, pick one of the other units in the same stack that you have lower 'to hit' probablilties on and fire at that one. With any luck you'll get more collateral damage.

It doesn't always work - sometimes it says you have a low 'to hit' probability, but when you actually fire it comes in at a lot higher. And sometimes you just get 'lucky' and hit with low numbers. Worse case, you wake someone up and they return fire and suppress you so much you are just sitting there for the rest of your turn.

Comments, anyone?

fud

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 11
- 7/24/2002 5:10:35 AM   
sg

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Brick, N.J.
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the replies guys.

1st: No armor or HT's available, so overrun is out of the question. My first chioce also would have been to move in with armor and overrun or blast away.

2nd: The only unit close enough or with enough movement is a squad with rifle/smg/hand grenade in it's weapon slots, otherwise I would have attacked with only a high explosive weapon such as satchel charge/flame. As it is I've tried using just the hand grenade or just the smg, but as soon as the targeted unit takes a casualty, it retreats, and my guys suddenly stop firing and are sitting ducks. Thats what gets me, if the whole squad is supposedly firing at the enemy (all 9 guys at the same time), the smg and hand grenades should be theoretically shot and thrown at the same time as the rifles are shot...not waiting in line to shoot after the rifles. So if the rifles score a hit, the targeted unit should stay there until my guys have shot all their weapons and after that if they are apt to retreat or fire back then so be it. I just don't think the initiating unit should be penalized for accuracy on their first "salvo". I know this is inherent in the game and can't be "fixed", but I hope it will be addressed in the upcoming Combat Leader. Don't get me wrong, I love SPWAW, this little "feature" bugs me to no end though.

3rd: What I mean by 2 opfires max, is if an enemy unit moves into firing range and line of sight of 5 of my units, only two units get to fire at it..(and I might add, not always the two with the best hit percentage or closest proximity, but that is another pet peeve). I know my units will opfire as long as they have available shots and sometimes even when they don't (special return opfire I believe it is called).

4th: The unit doesn't have enough movement to get into the enemy hex...too much of a moonscape if you get my drift.

5th: All 11 units hit percentages are about the same, mid thirties. I've tried them all and same result, the targeted unit pulls back after taking a casualty and I get nailed by 4,5 or 6 squads shooting at me. I've aslo tried shooting at the hex instead of a unit but its not a high percentage shot and suceeds in stirring up the hornets nest even worse. Oh well, guess I'll just have to fall back and let 'em come to me.

Thanks again for all the replies,

Steve

_____________________________

"****, we're in a tight spot!"
Ulysses Everett McGill.

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 12
- 7/24/2002 7:55:51 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		sg: The number of OP fires available declines as your ammo supply deminishes. More ammo more op shots, less ammo less op shots. The more op shots you take when available the less shots you'll get when its your normal turn also. Watch your ammo load. In your Japanese case I suspect you used quite a bit of ammo to get them all corraled so when you went in for the kill, OOOPs..... :eek: :cool: :)

_____________________________

"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 13
- 7/24/2002 9:21:33 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		What I do in those situations is rustle up some support before I fire. While routed/retreating they will not op-fire on units that simply move within their LOS, so move some of your units into firing positions before you 'wake em up'. Next, I have the most [I]distant[/I] unit fire at them first...I know, it doesn't sound logical, but check the 'to hit' % for your other units afterwards. Once the enemy units go from 'routed/retreating' to 'pinned' your hit chance increases; if they op-fire it skyrockets.

Then just make sure you alternate between firing units to keep the enemy's return fire accuracy low.

_____________________________

Jim NSB

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 14
One last suggestion - 7/24/2002 7:18:43 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		This is something I do that works well. If you have other units near by move then into a surrounding position. This means if the stacked units retreat they will retreat into a hex next to one of your units no matter where they retreat to. In this situation the unit retreating will retreat into a hex with one of you units. Then you can blaze away at that unit without it retreating anymore.

_____________________________

"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 15
- 7/25/2002 4:48:50 AM   
sg

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Brick, N.J.
Status: offline 		Chief: The Japs are on an assault and I repelled alot of attackers at one spot on my lines. They seemed to retreat to the same hex so I used my last 105mm barrage on that hex...direct hit. On my next turn I moved a fresh unit forward and discovered all the routed units. So my advancing unit has its full allotment of shots.

Tracer & Gary: I've used both of your suggested tactics in the past and they work quite well. In this situation though, I think i'm just undermanned to move forward and attack. There is little visibility due to all the arty and smoke from retreating units, so I can't fire another unit from distance first. There is only one unit close enough to move adjacent to the stacked enemy, and I'm afraid without another unit to attack with at the same time I'll just have to stay put and repell them when they come to me.

It just kills me to know there are so many sitting ducks there just waiting for me to pick them off, and I can't do it because of a quirk in the game engine.

Thanks for all the responses,

Steve.

_____________________________

"****, we're in a tight spot!"
Ulysses Everett McGill.

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 16
- 7/25/2002 8:11:43 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		sg: Did your 'fresh' squad fire at all before this turn or any other turn, if so ammo has been expended and subsequent turns will reduce number of volleys available, unless you running with reduced ammo off. ?????;) :cool:

_____________________________

"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 17
- 7/26/2002 1:46:19 AM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		what's the big hurry? drop your 105 on the same hex again (its delay will be minimal if you use the same unit) after moving more units into position so that they will be able to reach it on the next turn. Dont move into adjacent hexes...the 105 could supress them.

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Post #: 18
- 7/26/2002 5:24:40 AM   
sg

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Brick, N.J.
Status: offline 		Chief: Yes, they have fired on previous turns, but they have more than enough ammo to be able to fire this round and on ones to follow. Reduced Ammo is on. I have many squads that have run out of hand grenades and rifle ammo and have moved them back off the line and moved replacements up to their spots. This unit is one of the replacements and is well stocked and has its full allotment of vollys available.

Bigtroutz: That was the last of it...no more 105mm. :(

Steve.

_____________________________

"****, we're in a tight spot!"
Ulysses Everett McGill.

(in reply to sg)
Post #: 19
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