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The finest hour of an allied surface fleet

 
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The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/6/2010 1:18:23 AM   
Ildabaoth

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/7/2010
Status: offline 		I found a japanese CV fleet close to Sydney, composed by the CV Soryu and 3 DD. It had already attacked several Australian cities, so I guessed it was low on bombs, so I sent a surface fleet: BC Repulse, 2 CA, 4 CL and 5 DD. The surface fleet managed to find the CV fleet, so a surface combat started. I was pretty happy with that. The odds were great and my commander was the finest British officer (naval attribute in the 80s). And this was the result: 2 allied DD sunk (one of them sunk by the Soryu herself!), 1 torpedo hit to the BC, 1 torpedo hit to one of the CA and several shell hits to some of the other ships; 1 shell hit to the Soryu (small caliber), 2 shell hits to one of the DD and one DD sunk. They got to be kidding!
Post #: 1
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/6/2010 2:14:55 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ildabaoth

I found a japanese CV fleet close to Sydney, composed by the CV Soryu and 3 DD. It had already attacked several Australian cities, so I guessed it was low on bombs, so I sent a surface fleet: BC Repulse, 2 CA, 4 CL and 5 DD. The surface fleet managed to find the CV fleet, so a surface combat started. I was pretty happy with that. The odds were great and my commander was the finest British officer (naval attribute in the 80s). And this was the result: 2 allied DD sunk (one of them sunk by the Soryu herself!), 1 torpedo hit to the BC, 1 torpedo hit to one of the CA and several shell hits to some of the other ships; 1 shell hit to the Soryu (small caliber), 2 shell hits to one of the DD and one DD sunk. They got to be kidding!


What were the Captains like on your individual ships? I find that poor Captains can Totally Ruin Your Day, while good Captains can make a big difference for the better.

(in reply to Ildabaoth)
Post #: 2
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/6/2010 4:13:50 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Plus the other mob might have had quality leadership.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to ADB123)
Post #: 3
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/6/2010 3:48:36 PM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ildabaoth

I found a japanese CV fleet close to Sydney, composed by the CV Soryu and 3 DD. It had already attacked several Australian cities, so I guessed it was low on bombs, so I sent a surface fleet: BC Repulse, 2 CA, 4 CL and 5 DD. The surface fleet managed to find the CV fleet, so a surface combat started. I was pretty happy with that. The odds were great and my commander was the finest British officer (naval attribute in the 80s). And this was the result: 2 allied DD sunk (one of them sunk by the Soryu herself!), 1 torpedo hit to the BC, 1 torpedo hit to one of the CA and several shell hits to some of the other ships; 1 shell hit to the Soryu (small caliber), 2 shell hits to one of the DD and one DD sunk. They got to be kidding!


I feel your pain. I am playing an AI game where for some reason the Japanese Fleet doesn't even attack PH. It is there it just doesn't attack. Anyway since I have all of my battleships I send the BB West Virginia and the BB Maryland ( both with 16 inch guns) to interfere with a second landing attempt at Wake. Watching the animation the Maryland doesn't even fire. I lose one CA and the West VIrginia so damaged it sinks two turns later. After the task forces break off my surface group surprises the transports. Now the Maryland fires. I see hit after 16inch hit on the transports. OK I cheat and I fire up the Japanese side to see the real damage. Niether the Ise or Fusa has any major damage. I didn't sink any thing in the initial engagment.

I have noticed alot that in the early war engagements the American surface fleet doesn't seem to fire as much as the Japanese. The battle will be over and the American ships have almost all of their ammo left.

(in reply to Ildabaoth)
Post #: 4
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/7/2010 12:08:20 PM   
Schatten

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 10/3/2009
Status: offline 		i have noticed that the AI of such Battles dont work (after all if you close the AI work´s at no Place in AE).....if lets say a CL/DD Fleet intercepts a Transportfleet with some DD as escort´s the will 1: fire their Torp´s at max. Range and this results in few Hit´s (not so Problem in close Range night Battles but in a day Battle you see ships that fire their Torp´s at 10k and more Range) and after they fire the Torp´s and Guns what for Target pick´s the Captain...of course he ignores the Transport´s full with Soldiers and wastes all his Ammo und especially Torp´s at the enemy´s destroyers taht nearly invulnerable to torp´s.

this is btw. for both sides the same.

ah and a other one...a big Surface Battle, both side´s have BB´s ,CA´s CL,s and DD´s......the small CL´s and DD´s fire all their Gun´s at the enemy BB even if they cannot pierce his armor in any way at any range...t´hat´s not a problem for a AI Captain of a CL...except he fires his Gun´s at enemy´s small Ships like DD´s or CL´s he chooses to fire all time agains a Wand of Steel and ignore all the other Traget´s that he can really hurt with his Gun´s.....

(in reply to Disco Duck)
Post #: 5
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/7/2010 12:27:07 PM   
xj900uk

 

Posts: 1340
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		In my game against the AI it is Dec 30th 1941, the IJ are invading Balikapan and I have sent a strong Dutch cruiser-DD force north from Sorojeba to intercept. Because of bad weather it manages to dodge the retiring mini-KB (the covering surface TF has already retired north to refuel after a vicious firefight against a US force the previous day headed by Houston and Marblehead) giving support and arrives at Balikapan around midnight, spots the IJN transports as they are still unloading on amphibious assault - 9 x AP's and AK's with a light escort of about 3 x PC's, PB's and DE's...
Guess what? Dutch and IJN forces both spot one antoher, IJN suspends unloading ops and tries to get underway.... Dutch fleet already to go with guns on the triggers and... both sides avoid combat? Huh?

Dutch force under de Reuter has now scuttled back to Sorojeba withuot firing a single shot. I am thinking of having the admiral shot the moment he steps foot on the dock... Balikapan will probably fall tomorrow...

(in reply to Schatten)
Post #: 6
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/8/2010 7:30:55 PM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I've sent 3 bb's, 2 cl's, and around 20 dd's vs 1 bb, 1 cl, and 3 dd's and lost 1 bb, with another bb crippled, a sunk cl, and a sunk DD. All for minor damage to the enemy BB and a DD.

I've decided japanese ships are simply superior.

It's probably because they use metric. Imperial sucks. All hail the metric guns!

(in reply to Ildabaoth)
Post #: 7
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/8/2010 8:48:18 PM   
chesmart


Posts: 908
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Malta
Status: offline 		Hail !

Never fight the japanese ar night or before 1944 IMO.

(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 8
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/9/2010 12:36:04 AM   
Xxzard

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		For a kick, I turned off Dec 7th Surprise and gave orders to the US fleet at PH to sally and attack the KB carriers.

In the night phase, a TF consisting of 4 BB's and destroyers encountered the KB and engaged successfully. Ironically though, the very first shot was from Kaga, an 8 inch shell that hit BB Maryland. The carrier was sunk in the battle, but how about that for a belligerent ship!

_____________________________


(in reply to chesmart)
Post #: 9
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/9/2010 3:12:37 AM   
mgoldstein

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/27/2009
Status: offline 		Dumb luck plays a big factor in any battle, but I've enjoyed a great deal of success with my surface ships. Early in the war, I found them to be the Allies best weapon. You just have to pick your fights carefully. As the Japanese expand, the AI will send out amphibious warfare task forces with no air cover and few escorts (usually just a handful of sub chasers and gunboats.) So, I used my surface ships extensively as commerce raiders. Sometimes the Japanese merchant ships would get away, sometimes one of my ships would get badly damaged or sunk, but more often than not the Allied force would sink the entire Japanese task force. The real upside of this strategy was that my ship crews gained invaluable experience, especially in night fighting. Then, later on, when my Allied ships faced off against real warships, they fought on more even terms.

Posted this one before, the spectacular Battle of Port Moresby:
The Japanese AI sent a TF to bombard Port Moresby. I had a TF stationed off Moresby to defend the base. In the night battle, radar and bad weather made the difference: The Allied TF detected the Japanese group with their radar beyond visual range and opened fire on surprised Japanese ships!

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 13, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
CL Kuma, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
DD Arare, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Wakaba
DD Asagiri, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Tsuga, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Karii, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Yanagi, Shell hits 1
TB Chidori, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB Revenge, Shell hits 5
BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 23, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 3
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 1
CL Leander, Shell hits 2
CL Achilles
CL Emerald
DD Bulmer, Shell hits 1
DD Whipple, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Encounter
DD Express, Shell hits 1
PG Charleston, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD La Triomphant

The surviving Japanese ships were destroyed the following day by aircraft and a mop-up surface battle.

(in reply to Xxzard)
Post #: 10
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/9/2010 3:44:16 AM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		TBH most of my task forces have done more damage to themselves then I've taken from the enemy. Up until the 3v1 BB fight where I got my ass handed to me I had managed to avoid anything worse then single CA+escort groups, but in half of the engagements where I was shooting up some lightly defended transport force I've had collisions between my own ships.

Ship collisions happen a lot in my game lol. DD vs CL or CL vs CL and both ships spend the next month in dock. About ready to start hanging captains who don't know how to drive.

(in reply to mgoldstein)
Post #: 11
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/9/2010 6:09:32 AM   
Ildabaoth

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/7/2010
Status: offline 		I've seen a lot of people suggest to avoid night battles as allied at the beginning of the war. But I'm afraid I don't know how to do that. How do you control when your surface fleet will engage?

(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 12
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/9/2010 6:51:45 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Its possible to avoid night battles.

You have to position your surface combatants carefully, out of range of enemy forces that could reach you at night (hard task on 2 day turns btw. ),
and avoid settings "retirement allowed" or "mission speed" in areas with enemy TF´s.

One time or the other this will fail though.

In fact I like the kinda high randomizer and huge ammount of dicerolls in naval engagements. It simulates the major impact of tactical decisions on surface
battle outcomes, which has to be abstracted in WITP.

_____________________________


(in reply to Ildabaoth)
Post #: 13
RE: The finest hour of an allied surface fleet - 6/9/2010 11:14:19 AM   
Schatten

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 10/3/2009
Status: offline 		avoiding of night battles at begin as ally comes from the superior torpedos i think.

the allied torp´s dont work (except british or dutch) and a night battle start very often at close range, 2k or 4k so the Long Lances can very often sunk much ships even if the allied ships shoot first.

at day you start at bigger ranges so most torpedos goes wasted usless as long range v. destroyers and other small ships and Allied Gunfire is overall superior to Jap Gunfire from my experience.

after ´43 you can go into night battles as allied player too without any big disadvantage.

and after all...a loss as allied is nothing, you can replace everything...Japan cannot replace anything except AK´s

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 14
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