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RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem

 
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RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 3:04:17 AM   
boatrigm


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/17/2009
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I got CC Cross of Iron and didn't care for it much. Are the other CC in the series any better?

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Post #: 121
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 4:01:48 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
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Status: offline 		Well looks like Longest Day is the most improved one (so far).
Modern Tactics is still the worse.

< Message edited by jomni -- 6/30/2010 4:02:05 AM >

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Post #: 122
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 4:02:26 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		After reading about this I reckon it wil the best Close Combat yet!

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Post #: 123
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 4:08:24 AM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
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From: The Old Northwest
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quote:

ORIGINAL: boatrigm

I got CC Cross of Iron and didn't care for it much. Are the other CC in the series any better?


I own both COI and TLD. They are different. In COI the campaign is just battle after battle with one force. With TLD (and WAR) the campaign (or operation) is over a strategic map where you can do certain things (and obviously play out different battles with different forces).

Both have their strong points. COI has a more RPG and storied feel to it whereas TLD/WAR are more traditional strategic map campaigns. TLD seems to be the most improved as it is the latest.

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Post #: 124
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 5:01:21 AM   
Dundradal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: boatrigm

I got CC Cross of Iron and didn't care for it much. Are the other CC in the series any better?


I just finished a Der Ost Front 2 mod Grand Campaign with Dampsquib in Cross of Iron. It's not the same as WAR or TLD, but has its own advantages. Tracing the history of a single BG is cool and the requisition point system makes you think wisely about spending your points.

WAR and TLD have the strategic level which changes things quite a bit from COI. The BG requisition system is very different. The basic combat model is the same though for the most part.

I own every CC. All the originals and COI, WAR and TLD.

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Post #: 125
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 6:56:20 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Purchase points are good because you have to be more careful on what troops you deploy but it does result into non-historical combinations.
Battle groups are good because it keeps you to a historical force pool of a certain Unit. But it makes the game easier to win since you can just get the best troops on the first round and thrash the AI battle after battle who does not use an optimal force mix.

And now Arnhem is offering a campaign with the Battle Group system with purchase points. Merging both concepts sounds good.

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Post #: 126
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 7:11:53 AM   
Neil N

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

German Flag.  UK Flag.
No US Flag.


First Allied Airborne Army patch though. 1AA was made up of British 1st, 6th...Polish 1st Ind. Para Brigade...US 82nd AB, 101st AB, and 17th AB and a couple of ind para regiments.

hmmm

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Post #: 127
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 8:35:53 AM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neil N


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

German Flag.  UK Flag.
No US Flag.


First Allied Airborne Army patch though. 1AA was made up of British 1st, 6th...Polish 1st Ind. Para Brigade...US 82nd AB, 101st AB, and 17th AB and a couple of ind para regiments.

hmmm


They had no Star and Stripes left over after TLD so just used what was left in the locker. And you forgot XXX Corps.

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Post #: 128
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 10:01:38 AM   
Obsolete


Posts: 1492
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		Alright, I MAY give this game a chance, despite I absolutely oath RTS.  It's not that I can't do RTS, I used to do a LOT of Starcraft/warcraft back in the day, and that's perhaps why I feel in love so easily with turn-based wargames instead. 

But I will remain a little sceptical for now, after all, I am in the most pro-biased thread(s) to begin with.




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Post #: 129
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 10:45:43 AM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		Well, CC serie has it part of "click festival" but only when you try to do all perfect hehehe, more serious now isnt a RTS, you need to know very well terrain because line of sight is very important, every unit is more than x soldiers because they have diferent weapons (see your lmg soldier killed is FFFFFUUUU), ammo, fatige lever per soldier and the same for morale, you need have command units near to prevent voting with feets and of course, eventually you can see berserk soldiers

Oooo and dont forgive that you can take weapons from dead enemies or friends if you are out of ammo

For me 70% of the game is map selection but a better squad composition is important, i only play 2 times with original WAR

I see that in price we talk about 28 euros no???

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Post #: 130
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 11:18:46 AM   
Fred98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

I used to do a LOT of Starcraft/warcraft back in the day............. 




This game plays nothing like that. Nothing what so ever!

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Post #: 131
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 12:59:25 PM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
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Status: offline 		Oh unlike any traditional RTS... your pixel troops don't obey your orders all of the time.

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Post #: 132
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 1:38:46 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I hate RTS games but I don't consider the CC games as RTS. CC has a much slower and realistic pace to it and I never feel rushed or in a state of frantic exhaustion. I can't wait for Arnhem as I think it is the best of the series hands down.

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Post #: 133
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 1:57:58 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline 		Yea, like other posters said, CC isn't really an RTS. It is RTS only in the sense that the game plays continuously (not turn based) and has a top down view like RTS'. But that is where the similarities end.

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Post #: 134
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 3:08:12 PM   
Neil N

 

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Joined: 8/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neil N


quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

German Flag.  UK Flag.
No US Flag.


First Allied Airborne Army patch though. 1AA was made up of British 1st, 6th...Polish 1st Ind. Para Brigade...US 82nd AB, 101st AB, and 17th AB and a couple of ind para regiments.

hmmm


They had no Star and Stripes left over after TLD so just used what was left in the locker. And you forgot XXX Corps.


I thought XXX Corp was British...that would be the Union Jack. 1AA Patch would cover the rest

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Post #: 135
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 3:18:33 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		I think that main effort was made by british (with other minors) and USA troops only play a "secondary" role if you see the map the most important part of the plan was for the british airborne division, of course both flags need be present even for other troops but i dont find this as a critical feature in the game are other more important as drunken drivers

PD: in XXX corps where the Low Countries Princess Irene brigade and in 1st airborne corps where the polish brigade (included in the 1st airborne division) and the 2 american divisions.

< Message edited by Hexagon -- 6/30/2010 3:19:54 PM >

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Post #: 136
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 3:28:19 PM   
stolidog


Posts: 76
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Wow, at first look this looks very impressive, especially the new added features.

Can Matrix give a more specific release date since we are almost in July?

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Post #: 137
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 4:18:17 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		The point I was trying to make is that in TLD all the flags are American and no-one seemed to care. Why care now when they're not?

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Post #: 138
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 7:23:28 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		Standing in line to buy this, cash in hand.

I can vouch that this one has some nuanced operational challenges. Good stuff!

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Post #: 139
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 7:57:49 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

I can vouch that this one has some nuanced operational challenges. Good stuff!


Spill the beans!

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Post #: 140
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 10:52:46 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I hate RTS games but I don't consider the CC games as RTS. CC has a much slower and realistic pace to it and I never feel rushed or in a state of frantic exhaustion. I can't wait for Arnhem as I think it is the best of the series hands down.


Agreed...my feelings exactly

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Post #: 141
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/30/2010 11:10:20 PM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arinvald

I hate RTS games but I don't consider the CC games as RTS. CC has a much slower and realistic pace to it and I never feel rushed or in a state of frantic exhaustion. I can't wait for Arnhem as I think it is the best of the series hands down.


Agreed...my feelings exactly



Obviously you are a very wise man.

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Post #: 142
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/1/2010 2:12:55 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

The point I was trying to make is that in TLD all the flags are American and no-one seemed to care. Why care now when they're not?


Because Americans are demanding.


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Post #: 143
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/1/2010 3:02:56 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

Alright, I MAY give this game a chance, despite I absolutely oath RTS.  It's not that I can't do RTS, I used to do a LOT of Starcraft/warcraft back in the day, and that's perhaps why I feel in love so easily with turn-based wargames instead. 

But I will remain a little sceptical for now, after all, I am in the most pro-biased thread(s) to begin with.


The CC series in certainly not RTS. True, it is a real time tactical engine as opposed to turn based but that's where the similarities end. Your men don't have "hit points". They're either dead, healthy, wounded or incapacitated. Your men have several psychological states. If they're panicked then they wont follow your orders because they're too busy cowering or running away. You don't build structures or harvest resources. You have limited ammo, limited men and materials. Tanks don't have "hit points" either. Your 75mm Shermans will not be able to whittle away at the Tiger down the road until it's health is zero. They will have to get a close flank or rear shot to knock it out. CC is not a click fest. There are few units on the map and every unit moves at realistic paces and since you don't have to harvest resources you can focus on tactics.

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Post #: 144
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/2/2010 4:24:11 AM   
Kubel


Posts: 131
Joined: 11/4/2007
From: Canadian mosquito infested swamp
Status: offline 		I loved CC2 ... I'm definatly looking forward to this one

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Post #: 145
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/2/2010 2:23:31 PM   
Dundradal


Posts: 753
Joined: 6/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Purchase points are good because you have to be more careful on what troops you deploy but it does result into non-historical combinations.
Battle groups are good because it keeps you to a historical force pool of a certain Unit. But it makes the game easier to win since you can just get the best troops on the first round and thrash the AI battle after battle who does not use an optimal force mix.

And now Arnhem is offering a campaign with the Battle Group system with purchase points. Merging both concepts sounds good.


I wholeheartedly agree. I think the combo of the two systems should really provide for some great battlefield decisions. I can't wait to try it out!

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Post #: 146
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/2/2010 4:22:13 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		Obsolete, you can see a video AAR here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D44hOJistNM and of course, you can search more CC videos, the game mechanics are the same in all

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Post #: 147
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/2/2010 5:57:47 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I watched the video and feel as an advertising tool it fell short, really short of its goal. I was hoping for more from it. I like the system so I will probably buy the game. Others may watch and not buy it based on the lackluster presentation.

My opinion of course.

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Post #: 148
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/2/2010 8:32:41 PM   
themetalcrow

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 1/24/2010
Status: offline 		the video was alright. great sound effects as far as weapons but i don't hear any of the "idle" battle chatter. is there any in the game or is there any of the "chatter" in TLD or WAR?

by chatter i mean the soldiers radio chatter

is there much of that in the series?
thanks garrett

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Post #: 149
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 7/2/2010 9:29:30 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		The Radios didn't work in Operation Market garden to call HQ or call in artillery support, battery power was low or flat... let alone idle radio chatter.

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Post #: 150
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