RE: War in the East Q&A

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/28/2010 11:18:00 PM

karonagames

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From my perspective, and trying to interpret the activity on the development forums, I don't sense crisis.
The guys responsible for producing the scenarios featured in the AAR's have been putting out new versions in response to the testers AARs on almost a daily basis, but some of the problems have led back to the main game code, and the main code updates only gets sent out to the testers once a week, and not all the problems get fixed in every update.

There have been some changes that have "broken" other parts of the game, but this is normal and they are usually fixed quickly. Quite a few of the volunteer testers have been away on holiday in recent weeks, and this may have slowed down testing, but again this is nothing out of the ordinary.

Crisis? What Crisis?

Only 2by3 know when.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/28/2010 11:23:26 PM

Joel Billings

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No crisis, just time needed to get some things done. We didn't get to Beta in late June or even late July as I had hoped, but the game keeps getting better and keeps making good progress. We had some high risk areas of code we were working in recently and that combined with getting the short scenarios functioning the way we want them to has led to several restarts. It's the nature of the beast at the moment. I'd love to tell you when we will get to beta, and when the game will be ready, but I'm not going there (and I'm not psychic). We're still trying to wrap up the manual in August, and expect the number of rule changes to the game will fall off dramatically in the coming few weeks. There are really only a handful of tasks that need to get done to be able to say we are at beta. I've seen games in much worse shape called beta by the people working on them, so what's in a name.

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/29/2010 3:06:32 AM

nicwb

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Jaw,

thanks for the quick answer. (I should have realised! Victory Conditions !

!)

nicwb

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Post #: 903

RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/29/2010 3:17:00 AM

PyleDriver

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Just remember this is the most vast conflict in the history of man. We have a test group thats very smart, and the developers likewise. As things are added and qweeked theres bound to be cross bugs. So there is no crisis just alot of redundant work...This is not the "Road to Moscow" that never comes out.

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AWD Beta tester
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(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 904

RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/29/2010 12:52:13 PM

british exil

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quote:

Does this mean that apart from tactical considerations eg supply nets, defensive positions, destroying opponents etc (or in the case of Moscow/Berlin for the sheer prestiege of it ) there's no particular reason to capture a city ?

One reason to capture a city is to cut the supply lines/ rail lines. In major cities there is a lways a railhead.
Reading Pyledriver's AAR you will notice how much effort was put into gaining the railheads. Supply to ones own units and cutting off/denying supply to the enemy.

Mat

< Message edited by british exil -- 7/29/2010 2:03:37 PM >

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/29/2010 1:18:28 PM

ComradeP

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That also means that you don't always need to capture a city when you reach it, as it will take a while before your own rail conversion units catch up with the advance. Up to that point, it seems you wouldn't be penalized for letting the enemy keep an encircled city.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/29/2010 1:42:33 PM

SGHunt

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From: Lancaster, England
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Unless you or the enemy get victory points per turn for holding the city.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/29/2010 4:20:06 PM

ComradeP

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That mostly matters in smaller scenarios I'd guess, as overall 2 or 3 weeks is a minimal amount of time in the full campaign.

As a question: is there a way to give a unit primarily newer equipment (of the same type as older equipment already in the unit) when refitting it, or does refitting a) give the unit the most available equipment b) give a mix of new and old equipment? It would be pretty nice to be able to equip some units in quiet sectors primarily with obsolete equipment, whilst arming spearhead units with the latest and greatest. Sort of "PDU On" in WitP terms.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 7/29/2010 7:01:44 PM >

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/30/2010 11:21:19 PM

PyleDriver

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Well I decided to post another AAR on this forum. Please same rules apply. Joel, Trey and Pavel have padded there bets agianst me. Lower infantry in the north (some 300k less) and no Ap's to start. The Soviet production is higher, however I still eye the capital...Heres a couple screen shots in mid summer of my last game, and yes I played it on...Gorky...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by PyleDriver -- 7/30/2010 11:33:54 PM >

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(in reply to jaw)

Post #: 909

RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/30/2010 11:23:16 PM

PyleDriver

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And Leningrad...The war is lost for the Soviets...

Attachment (1)

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Jon Pyle
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WitW Alpha tester
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RE: War in the East Q&A - 7/31/2010 7:01:46 PM

jaw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

That mostly matters in smaller scenarios I'd guess, as overall 2 or 3 weeks is a minimal amount of time in the full campaign.

As a question: is there a way to give a unit primarily newer equipment (of the same type as older equipment already in the unit) when refitting it, or does refitting a) give the unit the most available equipment b) give a mix of new and old equipment? It would be pretty nice to be able to equip some units in quiet sectors primarily with obsolete equipment, whilst arming spearhead units with the latest and greatest. Sort of "PDU On" in WitP terms.

You can give priority of replacements (which by default is almost always the latest equipment) to a unit by putting the unit in refit status but you cannot force a unit to retain equipment that is outdated.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/1/2010 8:10:47 AM

ComradeP

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I recall asking it before or it being asked before, but is there also a "no replacements" button?

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/1/2010 10:35:00 AM

Helpless

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quote:

I recall asking it before or it being asked before, but is there also a "no replacements" button?

There is no such button. But you can set the max TOE% the unit can grow (right now from 50 to 100).

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/1/2010 10:42:11 AM

PyleDriver

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You can turn the TOE% level down from 100 which all units start with, to say 70, and it won't get replacements until it falls below that level.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by PyleDriver -- 8/1/2010 10:49:18 AM >

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Jon Pyle
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WitE2 Alpha tester

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/1/2010 6:45:51 PM

ComradeP

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If the player would put the vast majority of his units at such a maximum TOE level below the TOE level they have at that time (so they won't get replacements) and would put a number of other units in refit mode, would that funnel the majority of replacements to the units in refit mode or would a part of the replacements end in the pool?

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/1/2010 9:38:01 PM

Helpless

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quote:

If the player would put the vast majority of his units at such a maximum TOE level below the TOE level they have at that time (so they won't get replacements) and would put a number of other units in refit mode, would that funnel the majority of replacements to the units in refit mode or would a part of the replacements end in the pool?

It may work both ways. Depends on situation.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/1/2010 9:46:42 PM

mussey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

And Leningrad...The war is lost for the Soviets...

In the old WIR game I once had a successful German advance that looked just look this. It seemed it was the only way to capture Leningrad - by totally surrounding the entire Lake Ladoga region. Thanks for a great image.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/2/2010 11:09:40 AM

sven6345789

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Hi, 2 Questions

a) There seem to be several assets which belong to the Army HQ (german, Front in Russian) and which you can add to divisions for an attack (engineers etc.); is there an overview regarding these assets; otherwise it might be hard to keep track of them considering 150+ Divisions you have. I mean like a list of assets and where they are

b)How are the other fronts represented. As much as i know, the Germans have a fixed reinforcement and withdrawal schedule? or is there variability to it?

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/2/2010 12:20:02 PM

jaw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

Hi, 2 Questions

a) There seem to be several assets which belong to the Army HQ (german, Front in Russian) and which you can add to divisions for an attack (engineers etc.); is there an overview regarding these assets; otherwise it might be hard to keep track of them considering 150+ Divisions you have. I mean like a list of assets and where they are

b)How are the other fronts represented. As much as i know, the Germans have a fixed reinforcement and withdrawal schedule? or is there variability to it?

All the units in play are listed in the COMMANDER'S REPORT which shows the unit and what HQ it is attached to. If a support unit is attached directly to a combat unit, that combat unit will show up as its HQ.

WitE is confined exclusively to the Eastern Fronts. The only effect other fronts have is the occasional withdrawal of units from the Eastern Front. These withdrawals occur according to a fix schedule.

(in reply to sven6345789)

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/2/2010 9:25:25 PM

Neal_MLC

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At what point do the Soviets/ Germans surrender?

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 12:34:14 PM

ComradeP

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The more I think about, the more I feel a no replacements button or a lower selectable TOE level might be preferable and could possibly be discussed in the development forum. The reason is pretty simple: in cases where empty units return, or new units appear, the player is forced to build them up to at least 50% TOE strength, even though he may not have the desire to fill up those units or even use them at that point. Lowering the minimum TOE level to 10-25% (a cadre) could also work.

An example: late war German Panzer "divisions" and the various ad hoc formations that appear would suck up replacements you might not want to give them.

An example where the problem would be more serious: if a large number of Soviet units reappear or are created on the same turn, frontline units could be starved from replacements with the player not being able to do anything at all to prevent it.

If the selectable TOE level is lowered, or a no replacements feature is added, it might be preferable to have all reappearing or constructed units (aside from the off map support units) set to no replacements or the lowest TOE rating when they arrive. Otherwise it could be theoretically possible that an offensive grind to a complete halt because all your replacements are going to units that are completely unimportant at the time.

Likewise, replacements in general could be send to quiet fronts where they're not needed, which could be frustrating to the player.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 8/6/2010 12:41:39 PM >

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 12:54:39 PM

karonagames

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@ Neal_MLC. This is technically Jaw's thread, but he must be away. Posted below is the current 1941 campaign victory conditions. There is a ton of debate in the development forums on the dates so this is the current compromise, and is subject to change.

Attachment (1)

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 1:07:30 PM

ComradeP

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"24 or less VP's" stands for: the Germans need to have 24 or less VP's?

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 1:18:20 PM

karonagames

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@ComradeP. I have posted your post in the suggestions section of the development forum.

You do have the option to disband a unit that is rebuilding, but I can see the point that you are making.

The problem is that there is no "holding" area for the cadres to sit in, so once the stacking limits for the returning units is exceeded, any subsequent units that are eliminated would be totally destroyed with no option for rebuilding.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 1:24:56 PM

karonagames

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@ComradeP. Yes, only Axis control of VPs is monitored.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 1:35:00 PM

ComradeP

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quote:

You do have the option to disband a unit that is rebuilding, but I can see the point that you are making.

One of the problems I see is that, as I understand it, the replacements and logistics phase during a turn happens before the player can act, which would mean that if a large number of units would appear during a turn, they would suck up replacements before the player can either change their TOE levels, or disband them. It wouldn't be a big problem in small numbers, but if entire Armies pop up on the same turn, the problem could become serious.

quote:

The problem is that there is no "holding" area for the cadres to sit in, so once the stacking limits for the returning units is exceeded, any subsequent units that are eliminated would be totally destroyed with no option for rebuilding.

Do units reappear at a specific hex, or just on a map edge? If they appear on a specific hex, it should be possible to make them reappear in such a way that no more than 3 units will reappear on the same hex (pick 3, at the start of the scenario, on-map units or scheduled reinforcements, give them a hex to reappear on and pick 3 other units and select another hex, repeat until every unit has a reappearance hex). Reinforcements could possibly be finetuned in the same way (as they have fixed arrivals, so you know when they'll arrive). There's plenty of space on the western and eastern edges of the map and, judging by the map, also enough rail lines to make returning units reappear on a rail line or next to a city (making them reappear in the middle of nowhere is not ideal).

The "designated reappearance hex" approach would work for all on-map units at the start of the campaign, but not for player created units as it's not clear when they will appear and the game would have trouble dealing with units that have no fixed creation/arrival date. However, those units would be few in number compared to the on-map units on turn 1 and those scheduled to arrive as reinforcements.

It would probably require a change in the engine, but it would solve most of the "units destroyed upon arrival/reappearance due to stacking limits" problem (Soviet player created units that are destroyed prior to November 1941 would be the only problematic units, but even those units would be able to stack 3 high on a reappearance hex, so the number of units that would disappear would be small/negligible).

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 8/6/2010 1:40:01 PM >

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 2:07:17 PM

karonagames

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There has been a lot of chopping and changing on the reappearance hex rules, and to be honest I have lost track, so someone else will have to answer this.

My gut feeling is that the number of units possibly affected does not get out of hand, and replacements are only delayed by one turn if you disband a cadre - the replacements are not lost if they are undamaged. I think when the Axis are desperate for front line troops at the bitter end is when replacement management becomes an issue, and as noted elsewhere we are several weeks away from being able to test to see if it is an issue or a problem. I haven't played enough as a Soviet to comment on the the problems they have managing returning units.

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 3:30:15 PM

karonagames

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I have managed to track down the latest reinforcement placement rules: there looks like there is more flexibility than with previous versions:

Excerpt from manual (Subject to change)

"Reinforcements appear per the unit reinforcement and withdrawal info screen. There are two methods of reinforcement placement for on-map units. In the first method, Axis combat and headquarters units will appear in the westernmost controlled city or urban hex of their nationality that does not violate stacking limits. Soviet combat and headquarters units will appear in the easternmost controlled city or urban hex under Soviet control, with the exception of the Moscow Defense Zone headquarters unit, which will appear in the vicinity of Moscow. Combat and headquarters units reinforcements that do not have an open spot in a valid city or urban hex will appear in a hex adjacent to a valid city or urban hex. If the situation should exist where there are no valid hexes available for the placement of a reinforcement unit, the unit will never appear. Destroyed combat and headquarters units that are reformed as nearly empty units to be rebuilt with replacements follow the same placement rules as above. In both these cases the units are placed on the map only in a city with the nationality matching the unit, with the westernmost (for Axis units) or easternmost (for Soviet units) valid city or urban hex being selected first.

In the second method, reinforcements will be scheduled to arrive at a designated hex on the map area. In order for the unit to be placed, it must meet three conditions. The designated hex must be friendly controlled, it must be at least 3 three hexes away from an enemy unit, and the reinforcement cannot violate the stacking limit upon entry

If the above conditions cannot be met, the six adjacent hexes to the originally designated hex will be checked and the unit placed in one of those if conditions can be met. If none of the 6 six adjacent hexes meets the conditions, then the unit will be placed in a town, city or urban hex somewhere to the east (Soviet) or west (Axis) that does meet the conditions. The designated or anticipated alternate arrival hex for the unit will be shown in the reinforcement and withdrawal screen.

Reinforcements and reforming units must follow the stacking limit of 3 three units per hex when being placed. Those units being placed as reinforcements that have a manpower of with less than 200 men on the reinforcement track will appear with morale of 40 and experience of near 30.

All ground units that appear as reinforcements are initially attached to their national high level headquarters (see section xx.x). Reassignment of reinforcements from their national high level headquarters unit to another headquarters unit does not cost any administrative points.

Air units that appear as reinforcements will initially be attached to their National Air Reserve."

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 8/6/2010 3:34:13 PM >

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Post #: 928

RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 4:36:08 PM

ComradeP

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How does the game keep track of reinforcement units for the "Reassignment of reinforcements from their national high level headquarters unit to another headquarters unit does not cost any administrative points." rule? Does it have to happen in a single turn, otherwise you have to pay AP's?

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 8/6/2010 4:45:38 PM

karonagames

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The first transfer to a new HQ is free regardless of when it takes place.

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