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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War

 
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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 3:23:03 AM   
bssybeep


Posts: 237
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I'm playing too much Microsoft Flight Sim lately (2 hour flights every night) and ignoring all games except the ones with ongonig PBEM matches.  Looks like a pass to me.  As for the graphics, hand-drawn is acutally more artisitc and appropriate for the theme.  It really gives you an ancient theme.


btw Jomni, where did you get your signature? I like the art.

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Post #: 31
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 4:34:50 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Just found it off the net.
Google for "Strike Witches" but that's a differnt anime with similar "girls with WWII plane parts" theme.

The whole set with U.S., British and German planes is in the link:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2560432&mpage=3#

Warning: some nudity.


< Message edited by jomni -- 9/23/2010 4:35:51 AM >

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Post #: 32
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 5:11:34 AM   
bssybeep


Posts: 237
Joined: 6/5/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Just found it off the net.
Google for "Strike Witches" but that's a differnt anime with similar "girls with WWII plane parts" theme.

The whole set with U.S., British and German planes is in the link:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2560432&mpage=3#

Warning: some nudity.


thxs

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Post #: 33
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 5:49:41 AM   
Johnus

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline 		I just purchased but have not yet played. Yet I have read AAR's and the initial impressions here and have perused my purchase. I simply can not understand how anyone could possibly claim that a game of this one's obvious quality is over priced at $40.00. Should the game be half-price because you can not play Rome (something the game was not designed to let you do?) Is the game overpriced compared to Elemental, BFTB, HOI3, EUROME? Does any of these other games delilver the "bang for the buck" that a Civilization game does? I really don't understand the position that this particular game is "too expensive." And I think the statement is unfair.

Oh, and jomni:

I hate the little Japanese girls.

< Message edited by Johnnie -- 9/23/2010 5:53:01 AM >

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Post #: 34
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 7:24:31 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Johnnie
I simply can not understand how anyone could possibly claim that a game of this one's obvious quality is over priced at $40.00.


If a person has unlimited money and time to play just about any game then I'm pretty sure the $40 dollars justify the Hannibal based on it's quality alone. And I'm pretty sure games are priced in this view to be fair.

But in reality, we all have constraints in money and time and we have to make a value assessment. So the value judgement is dependent on a person's situation and they may be different between individuals. But a lower priced game would surely help in making the 'buy' decision because it solves the money problem (what's left is the time). As for me, I don't have time to play more games even if this is good and worth $40. So I fear that it will just be a wasted investment.

I'm pretty sure that this is a good game. I just have to stop myself from buying too much and not playing them. I think a lot of people are in the same situation. Lots of good games to play but so little time.

< Message edited by jomni -- 9/23/2010 7:33:13 AM >

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Post #: 35
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 12:21:40 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		Well Johnnie add me to the "This game is overpriced" group. $40 for this miniscule module is just too much. This is something you would add to a huge game like a Total War or Civilization as an Expansion not something of it's own for $40. It's a $20 game at most period. I can get four board games like this from Decision Games for $40 wiith colorful box art as well as unit counters and maps and even a printed manual. So, no sorry this game isn't worth 40 bucks. This seems to be a pattern with Matrixgames lately overpricing their new releases. 80 bucks for BftB and now this. I didn't even check that 4x space game how much was it? $50 or $60 if it was that is too much also.

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Post #: 36
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 1:05:05 PM   
pjwheeling


Posts: 176
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Status: offline 		I want to buy, but the price is just too high on a limited budget.

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Post #: 37
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 2:07:26 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Well Johnnie add me to the "This game is overpriced" group. $40 for this miniscule module is just too much. This is something you would add to a huge game like a Total War or Civilization as an Expansion not something of it's own for $40. It's a $20 game at most period. I can get four board games like this from Decision Games for $40 wiith colorful box art as well as unit counters and maps and even a printed manual. So, no sorry this game isn't worth 40 bucks. This seems to be a pattern with Matrixgames lately overpricing their new releases. 80 bucks for BftB and now this. I didn't even check that 4x space game how much was it? $50 or $60 if it was that is too much also.


I guess their programmers would like to eat too ... knocking out a whole heap of code is a hell of a lot harder and labour intensive than sending some designs to a Chinese manufacturer to be printed. Huge software houses can keep the prices reasonable with economies of scale. This isn't the case here... If your looking for a bargain look elsewhere cause niche products and markets are always going to be more than a few cheese burgers ... I'm not saying that we should be lemmings... if the game is quality/challenging (which I have no idea about) then it is worth the price of entry.

$20 you're having a laugh!

Otherwise we will see the end of PC wargaming and quality strategy games for the dumbed down offering from mainstream retailers.

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Post #: 38
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 3:27:57 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJD

Well, I'm never one to underestimate the value of $50 or whatever Matrix is charging, but value, especially for entertainment, is highly relative. Fifty bucks will buy a middling dinner and a movie. Or it can buy you a game like Hannibal that will put your time to far more interesting use. Of course Hannibal costs too much. Everything does. But you're guaranteed a continuing return on your investment here, which is not generally the case with money spent on fun.


Relative it is, certainly. I couldn't give a rat's arse about Civ 5 (I barely played 4, and initial reports say the game isn't quite as rosy as everybody hoped, anyway) but I could also spend (and have indeed spent) the same money on Minecraft, Evochron Mercenary and Amnesia, and still have enough left over for a pizza. All three are, IMHO, at the very peak of PC gaming quality in their respective areas, allowing for a few 'indie' production values. I defy anyone to find any game with more longevity than Minecraft, and it's still in alpha!

All that aside though, I appreciate few Matrix games has as broad appeal as any of those. What surprises me is the price of this one compared with other Matrix titles, of which I have more than a few not yet 'played out'.

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Post #: 39
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 5:34:30 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with those saying that $40 is not too much to ask for a game like this. There's well more than $40 in terms of bang for the buck here and the quality is top notch, but I understand that if you haven't played the game, you can't be expected to believe me. If you're on the fence only because of price, please check back when the demo is released. I believe it will convince you that this is good value for the money.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 40
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/23/2010 6:46:07 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		Yep, another demo will bring in fence sitters.

It sounds like many people are pretty broke right now. Not surprising as well as the economy has been doing.

But they'll cave. If not today, then before long.

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Post #: 41
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 2:16:55 AM   
jomni


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Status: offline 		Yup. Demo is a good idea.

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Post #: 42
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 4:02:05 AM   
pjwheeling


Posts: 176
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline 		I always get a boxed copy of my games. $50 is just alot. I trust that the quality is top notch. I have no doubt about that. I know they are cheaper, but I'm not into the Civ games or the Total War games, and the like. It just seems that the good games (Matrix)are getting more and more expensive. I know the Developers have to eat, but the economy makes it hard on the buyers to. I'm not trying to whine, just stating the truth.

Patrick

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Post #: 43
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 10:26:53 AM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline 		Yeah pjwheeling it's sad when the economy is spiraling down that prices go up instead of spiraling down with it. But, I realize Matrixgames gotta eat and this developer gotta eat but I gotta eat also and food comes before pleasure.

I think what makes the price of this game hard to swallow though (at least for me) is that what it offers doesn't equal the value of other games in the same price range that offer both sides of play, even multisides of play like a Paradox or HPS title, no multiplayer features like TCP/IP or hotseat or PBEM ability. No random maps, no random campaigns no empire building etc. etc. (Pickup EU:Rome for a looksee of a game that offers so much more for $15)

This game is just a one sided lopsided game of playing Hannibal and Hannibal only against an AI with in this case pretty much unlimited resources (like a cheat in most other games) and you keep taking on more an more until you take or don't take Rome. Sort of a beat your head against the wall until you concede or break the wall type of game.

Of course graphically it's not stunning either it looks like something I've seen in some of the older magazines from Strategy & Tactics of the game counters and maps included in the magazine.

I'll probably try out the demo but still highly doubt I'll pay 40 bucks for this. Add in the Persian invasions of Greece and Alexanders treks to the east and the complete Rise & Fall of Rome all in one package and I'd probably pay 40 bucks for that.

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Post #: 44
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 2:06:27 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		diablo1,

I'd appreciate if you didn't jump to conclusions given that (as far as I know) you haven't played the game.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 45
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 2:27:33 PM   
jhdeerslayer


Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		I tell you after picking up Battlefield Academy from Slitherine, anything they do is on my radar now regardless of initial impressions and all. Based on my BA experience, Hannibal will someday soon be added to my collection.

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Post #: 46
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 2:32:39 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

I think what makes the price of this game hard to swallow though (at least for me) is that what it offers doesn't equal the value of other games in the same price range that offer both sides of play, even multisides of play like a Paradox or HPS title, no multiplayer features like TCP/IP or hotseat or PBEM ability. No random maps, no random campaigns no empire building etc. etc. (Pickup EU:Rome for a looksee of a game that offers so much more for $15)


This isn't some EU/Total War/Whatever nation building game. I think you're jumping to conclusions without having any idea of what you're talking about.

BTW.. I've played EU Rome. And I've played this much more.





< Message edited by NefariousKoel -- 9/24/2010 2:33:53 PM >

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Post #: 47
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 6:09:49 PM   
diablo1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

diablo1,

I'd appreciate if you didn't jump to conclusions given that (as far as I know) you haven't played the game.

Regards,

- Erik


Aright Erik you tell me what are conclusions here and what are facts?

1. You can only play Hannibal

2. You cannot play Rome

3. You cannot play TCP/IP

4. You cannot play PBEM

5. You cannot play Hotseat

6. You cannot play multiplayer of any sort

7. You throw your forces of Hannibal up against the forces of the Romans (like a brick wall)

8. Rome has practically unlimited resources

9. The graphics are not state of the art

10. There is no empire building up like a Total War or EU Rome

11. The only conclusive item would be the replayablity and even for me this is not a conclusion but a fact I do not see this game lasting more than a couple of play throughs before "I" become bored with it and figured out the ai.

12. It is also not worth more than 20 bucks to me that is no conclusion that is a fact.

13. There are no random generators.

So tell me where are all these jump to conclusions you accuse me of? Everything I stated is fact.

< Message edited by diablo1 -- 9/24/2010 6:10:57 PM >

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Post #: 48
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 6:43:27 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

I do not see this game lasting more than a couple of play throughs before "I" become bored with it ...

It is also not worth more than 20 bucks to me


Wow. Could we get any more selfish here?? It's just a game.

In contrast, I downloaded Hannibal last night and I'm looking forward to it. Looks like plenty of randomness and replayability to make this title worthwhile.


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Post #: 49
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 6:59:23 PM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 2247
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1
This game is just a one sided lopsided game of playing Hannibal and Hannibal only against an AI with in this case pretty much unlimited resources (like a cheat in most other games) and you keep taking on more an more until you take or don't take Rome. Sort of a beat your head against the wall until you concede or break the wall type of game.


Ah well I have to say that this statement is completely wrong. The AI does not have unlimited resources. Every province in the game has a limited manpower for recruiting that can be exhausted - whether by Roman or Carthaginian recruiting in that province. The AI is constrained by this manpower and constrained by which provinces and cities it controls to do the recruiting just as the Carthaginians are. The Romans start with more recruiting potential as they hold more cities/provinces and thus more manpower - but it is not unlimited, and an aggressive Carthaginian can take this recruiting base and use it against the Romans. Of course Italian units serving the Carthaginians can desert by Roman card play so they aren't 100% reliable.

Carthage has to use aggressive strategy to turn the tables on the Romans - at least that's how I won a game last night - by aggressively disrupting Roman recruiting and marching consistently south with Hannibal and other Carthaginian generals, seizing cities, and recruiting there.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 7:05:39 PM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 2247
Joined: 11/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1
Aright Erik you tell me what are conclusions here and what are facts?

1. You can only play Hannibal

2. You cannot play Rome

3. You cannot play TCP/IP

4. You cannot play PBEM

5. You cannot play Hotseat

6. You cannot play multiplayer of any sort

7. You throw your forces of Hannibal up against the forces of the Romans (like a brick wall)

8. Rome has practically unlimited resources

9. The graphics are not state of the art

10. There is no empire building up like a Total War or EU Rome

11. The only conclusive item would be the replayablity and even for me this is not a conclusion but a fact I do not see this game lasting more than a couple of play throughs before "I" become bored with it and figured out the ai.

12. It is also not worth more than 20 bucks to me that is no conclusion that is a fact.

13. There are no random generators.

So tell me where are all these jump to conclusions you accuse me of? Everything I stated is fact.


Points 1-6 are all the same point - you can only play Carthage. That's correct and I don't like it either.
Points 7-8 are completely wrong. See my other post about this.
Point 9 - I like the graphics a lot. I think they look good. I guess it's POV but your POV is they aren't good. Ok.
Point 10 - this isn't an empire builder game. This is a game just about a single war - the 2nd Punic war. You do have to build a recruiting base and seize provinces. If you don't do that you won't win. Period. You have to defend Africa, defend Spain, and seize parts of Rome's territory - Syracuse as a distraction and Roman provinces to take away their recruiting base and increase your own recruiting base.
Point 11-12 - ok that's your opinion and I see no problem with that. However I don't really see how you can draw these conclusions so strongly without playing the game.
Point 13 - Yep this game wouldn't work at all with random generation.

I personally think the system is very very fun and well done. Battles are lots of fun, the strategic decisions are deep with a lot of factors at play. But I too would like to see a bigger map, more scenarios. And I think with the system as clean as it is the makers of the game should be able to release a much larger Roman empire game quickly. That's my hope. I'd buy it and play it as I really enjoy this game. I've won once in about 8 tries.

< Message edited by jjdenver -- 9/24/2010 7:27:38 PM >

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Post #: 51
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 7:39:14 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		It's advertised as a "Single" player game. I don't see what all of the fuss is about diablo??? It seems everything works as designed and advertised??? It's not like they are lying to anyone!

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Post #: 52
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 8:35:42 PM   
Johnus

 

Posts: 615
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline 		Diablo:

Exactly what kind of "random generator" would you expect from a game simulating one of the Punic Wars? I can see it now: Hannibal vs. Rommel at Agincourt.

< Message edited by Johnnie -- 9/24/2010 8:36:28 PM >

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Post #: 53
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 9:56:00 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I had some comments on the value of this game too, but I'm just going to shut up and wait for the demo.

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Post #: 54
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 9:57:53 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
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Status: offline 		Question. How many turns is this game?

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Post #: 55
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 10:28:08 PM   
TJD

 

Posts: 294
Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Question. How many turns is this game?


20 or until Rome falls or, more likely, the AI defeats you.

Tim

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Post #: 56
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 11:09:23 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Thanks
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Question. How many turns is this game?


20 or until Rome falls or, more likely, the AI defeats you.

Tim



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Post #: 57
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/24/2010 11:31:56 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

No random maps...


I haven't bought the game either but it's because of a lack of down time right now.

But pleeeease - do not give me a game with a random map of the Mediterranean!





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Post #: 58
RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/25/2010 2:29:39 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		Why do people want to play as Rome? That would be like playing the game on insanely easy idiot mode.

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RE: Hannibal: Carthage in the Second Punic War - 9/25/2010 6:16:06 AM   
papajack

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/11/2010
Status: offline 		Step back due to the price but finally bought it ......... my English is not good so could say one sentence ....
Cannot stop playing the game   

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Post #: 60
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