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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/2/2010 11:52:57 PM   
RufusTFirefly

 

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Guess it is time to put some things right after the propaganda of the enemy. Dont let them fool you. They will soon have wasted all their resources and have to run when the French strike back!

But to be serious, some comments in addition to what 82ndTrooper has written.

First of all: his attack on France is simply brilliant. Sending parachuters in the back of the French army has cost the loss of some production centers.

I was expecting the German army coming from the north, making their way through the Low Countries. Therefore I have placed a lot of units there that I would need in the eastern part of France now. Meanwhile the first armoured units arrived at the front, like those tank units that have encircled the parachuters at Lyon (and now, a turn later than the one that the screenshots above, have eliminated them).

At Maginot line the units in start turn contained 30 rifles, some machineguns, an AT gun and an infantry gun, First I did was to split the units in two groups. One group contained rifles, machineguns and the AT gun. It should hold position at any cost. The second group contained rifles and the infantry gun, as it is more useful in attack than in defence. Some of these units were placed in second line, together with armoured units. Their task was to move quickly to any point were the enemy achieves a breakthrough and drive the enemy back. It did not work as there was no breakthrough but a complete breakdown of the French frontline. The fortifications had cost high losses for the attackers but did not stop them. The river at Nancy is the next defence line now, but it will be outflanked in the south. A third defence line is already build, but as soon as the enemy has brought enough forces in position it will fall.

The main reason why France ont survive long is (beside a very well done attack), that the war footing is still low and the deployment especially of heavy units is not sufficiant. All French HQs start with only half of the necessary staff. Beside supply a lot of staff has to be build as well as PP for increasing war footing. There is not much left for heavy units and those that can be build are weaker than their German counterparts. Only the Panhard is a very effective weapon. Btw, I am producing only those units that were historically present. That means the French fighter squads consist mainly of Potez63. No Hurricans or Spitfires are build in France. As well the British build the Morris scout car although it is not as powerful as the French Panhard. The Potez63 does a quite good job but it is much weaker than the German fighters. The losses of ther German Lutfwaffe aremainly caused by flak than by successful fighter defence.

82ndTrooper has shown some screenshots to demonstrate how drastically the supply is reduced in some areas. But that is not the main problem for me. There are around twelve French HQs and I have connected all supply centers in the south, west and north with nearby HQs. They are not dependent of supply and reinforcements from Paris as well as the HQs at Maginot line have not been. But the loss of production centers due to parachuter attacks decrease the total amount of production and that is what causes problems. Of course I had garrisoned some infantry in most of the cities, despite a different impression that Krupp_88mm has got. But the garrisons were too weak in some places and the enemy taking the bridges disable me to use some mobile units that I had placed in the mid of France. They were meant to move quickly to the places were the enmy might attack with parachuters. So it was not unexpected that this would happen. But I had not expected the number of parachuters that attacked and was simply unable to fight that much of attackers. Putting that much strength in the airborne attack was the best strategy!

At least I want to point out that it is a great scenario and it is really thrilling - so much that I forget again and again to do some screenshots. Sorry for that. But here is one showing the situation from the French view. You can see some tank units north and north-east of Paris, coming down from the border to Belgium where they were placed to defend in case the Germans would move through the Low Countries. The HQs at Nancy (center of map) and Mulhouse (lower right edge) get supply and reinforcements from the local centers. Production centers west of Paris are garrisoned and some fighter squads placed there.






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< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 10/3/2010 12:08:47 AM >

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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:38:27 AM   
82ndtrooper


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hey Rufus !!
glad to see you posting on here Bro !

First let me say that I am glad there are no spitfires or hurricanes in France because the Luftwaffe would really be hurting if there where. You have hurt it bad enough with a handful of potez63, p-36 and ms-406's.

this is an example from my recent turn.
Please understand that I don't just launch an air-strike the first thing I do is send in a group of fighters on a recon mission to see what kind of air defense is present. on this air attack I sent in 2 recon missions to draw out the defending planes within 2 clicks of the target and still when i attack you have a fighter squadron able to intercept. You have kept your air interceptors very well placed around the battle field and inflicted as many losses on the Luftwaffe as you have taken. In my opinion your air defense has been extremely well played.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 12:40:19 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:41:05 AM   
82ndtrooper


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this is the position of my forces at the start of the turn starting from western france




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:41:36 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and the south west




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:42:27 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and the eastern side of France




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:44:43 AM   
82ndtrooper


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this is after the capture of Dijon, you can see how capturing towns opens up the supply lines to move my armies through




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:48:20 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and here maybe you can get an idea how we have cut off southeastern france
gray is Germany




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 12:49:48 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:51:22 AM   
82ndtrooper


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I have saved up enough PP to buy some research and I really struggled on what to buy. should I upgrade my air-force , my armor, my artillery or maybe my infantry




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:53:47 AM   
82ndtrooper


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yes I chose Infantry since it makes up the bulk of my military.

so then I go to the supply screen and find AGC hq which has all my attacking armies under it and select auto upgrade to upgrade all those units first.




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:55:22 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and when done I get this picture and YAY I now have Infantry II in all my units. (including the paratroopers)




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 6:22:37 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:58:15 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and finally here is a look at the ending positions of my armies. notice we are starting to roll up the french defenders from the south but at a significant cost.

also once again I forgot to take a pic of the turn totals but they where about even.
and 1 Regiment of the 1st Fallshirmjaeger was totally destroyed.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 1:00:49 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 5:28:07 AM   
82ndtrooper


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turn 5 of the attack (i think)

first some pics of the positions of my forces at the start

Notice that one town has been bombed and has a strong armor unit approaching so the best thing for my para regiment is to fall back and hold the bridge.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 6:36:57 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 5:29:50 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and south france
The Waffen SS has finally been released by Hitler and was air lifted into Lyon last turn and is now on the move south towards Marseilles.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 5:31:55 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 5:33:14 AM   
82ndtrooper


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finally a pic of the main invasion

main things to look at here is the 8th motorized is moving pass Dijon on its mission to relieve the Fallshirmjaeger units to the west.
And the 14th Panzer is moving to Dijon to form up for its assault on Paris.

also notice the 1st army lined up along the Maginot line on R&R
(R&R = military for Rest and Recuperation)




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 5:38:45 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 5:42:32 AM   
82ndtrooper


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a look at Tolouse where we dropped another two regiments of paratroopers to try and take the city.




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 5:51:13 AM   
82ndtrooper


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here is a screen shot of one of my recon missions to draw out defenders to make it a little easier for my dive bombers and level bombers to hit their targets. The air war in this scenario is a little different with all the different types of planes and combination's you can use and I have found it works better for me to send a group of just fighters in on recon missions first before i send in my air strikes and bombing raids. I seem to take less over all losses.
notice that I lose as many as I kill but I use up their readiness so they cant intercept my bombing attacks and that the first RAF squadrons are starting to show up. That means I can look forward to an even harder fight for air superiority than it has been.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 6:26:09 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 5:58:16 AM   
82ndtrooper


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a look at my final positions.

first notice the 14th Panzer starting to finally form up around Dijon and that some lead elements are pushing forward to probe the defenses at Paris.

next the 10th Panzer with help from the 7th Army has finally cleared out all the defenders at the river line and the Infantry II really helped me take a lot less casualties then I expected.

last notice the 8th motorized is moving west as fast as it can to help those paratroopers
Take it from a old paratrooper, those troops will be very happy to see the 8th roll up.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 6:27:59 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 6:05:29 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and as promised a look at some totals

in the upper kills and losses boxes take a look at the plane totals.
while I am ahead it is only by a small margin and remember that he has been using only the planes that where historically in the french air-force not the best planes he had available.

I don't care what anybody says, I know from experience playing the west in the first test game that the job he has done with that out-dated air-force is outstanding.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 6:11:12 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 6:17:58 AM   
82ndtrooper


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and a look with the turn totals scrolled down.

so look at the turn totals in the picture above and below and notice that my losses are less then half of his.
This is because of the upgrade to my Infantry, prior to this turn my losses where about equal to or a little more than his each turn.
also note that this was with arty strikes only on Metz and air-strikes only on the stack of armor units that where in a plains hex. I did nothing to prep the attacks on the fortresses I just attacked them with Infantry units only.

I feel that the Infantry tech II was a good purchase at this point of the game.

also notice that you lose a lot of heavy infantry unlike other scenarios. And they are 5 times the cost of regular infantry so its a constant ongoing expense to keep your units reinforced.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 6:32:59 AM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 6:20:12 AM   
82ndtrooper


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I thought i would take a pic of the report you get at the opening of each turn and show all the info included.




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 6:42:37 AM   
krupp_88mm


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haha nice work france is looking like swiss cheese alright, although i think you missed the historic fall date, probably more due to the map size than anything else though.. will a vichy France trigger if you invade the south? also tel those lazy Italians to get off their butts and help out as usual the SS has to do the Italians job for them!

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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 6:55:54 AM   
82ndtrooper


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a few thoughts.
while i am very pleased with how my plan has worked out I know its really nothing special.

Germany is supposed to be able to invade France and take it fast at this point in the game. The changes Grumpy made to the scenario from the first test game to this test game have made a huge impact and made it much easier for the germans and much harder for the west.  This one is much more realistic.

In the first game playing as the west i was able to raise my war footings a whole lot faster and this led to not only stalling Germany's attack but to having huge air battles with anything from 50 to a 100 planes in the skies fighting all at once.

I have to agree with Rufus this scenario is thrilling to play and its hard to remember to slow down and take pics.


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 7:17:38 AM   
82ndtrooper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

haha nice work france is looking like swiss cheese alright, although i think you missed the historic fall date, probably more due to the map size than anything else though.. will a vichy France trigger if you invade the south? also tel those lazy Italians to get off their butts and help out as usual the SS has to do the Italians job for them!


Yes the map size and the fact you cant build roads so it was impossible to bypass parts of the Maginot line I had to capture the road junctions to open up the supply routes. But I am trying to take it as fast as I can and am sure that others will be able to do it faster than me in the future. But ill get to set the standard for them to beat.

its interesting to see how the game attempts to wake up the Italians and the axis minors I am just now starting to spend some PP on trying to get it to wake them up by buying lower neutrality cards. you can see all the attempts it made last turn in the screen shot above showing the report, its on the list on the left side.

i went back a took a couple screen shots to show the attempts to wake up a country.
Finland almost woke up this last turn.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/3/2010 7:21:41 PM >


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 7:30:25 AM   
82ndtrooper


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but Italy wasn't even close.




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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:43:10 PM   
RufusTFirefly

 

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June 1940

As you might have noticed the battle statistics given above show allied losses of a Hurricane and a Gloster Gladiator. Meanwhile the RAF is built up to a level that I thing I might win the Battle of Britain. Therefore the RAF is now able to join the fight for France. A first fighter squad was sent to Paris and has already seen action. This is why there are first losses of British fighters now.

After a successful air raid against Tours that destroyed the town completely I launched another air raid aginst Nantes. This was a mistake. My bombers were attacked by Messerschmitts based at Nantes. 3 of 13 bombers went down and the damage was only half of what it would have been without any intercept. As response the RAF sent two fighter squads against the air base at Nantes and eliminated three of four German fighters while two Hurricans got lost. This is the beginning of the fight for French skies.






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< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 10/3/2010 12:48:20 PM >

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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/3/2010 12:46:15 PM   
RufusTFirefly

 

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And this is the battle statistic of June 1940 after the allied turn.






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< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 10/3/2010 12:47:21 PM >

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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/4/2010 4:41:19 PM   
GrumpyMel

 

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Awesome AAR guys!

As a scenerio designer, it's just an awesome feeling being able to read a detailed blow by blow account like this of 2 players going at it in something you designed.

It's also very cool to see that multiple different approaches are viable to tackle an operation like the attack on France. Brilliant classic employment of airborne forces 82nd... but I guess that shouldn't come as any surprise given the source

A quick technical note....the thing about not being able to air-lift HQ's.... it's something hard-coded into the AT engine...I've run into it in other scenerio's.... for some reason the Engine prevents HQ type units from being selected as the target of air lift missions. It's something I hope Vic will change in a future version...as it does make airborne Ops more difficult.

Looking forward to see how things develop from here... you guys both seem to be playing a very strong game so far.



< Message edited by GrumpyMel -- 10/4/2010 4:42:41 PM >

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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/5/2010 5:15:55 AM   
82ndtrooper


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its ok about the HQ's grumpy I was able to work around it and ill have a good idea how to work around it in the future.

I have been looking around the map planning my next invasion and I thought I would suggest something.
First for me I see nothing positive in attacking Norway limited production and a huge coastline to defend. I think it needs something special to make it more important. Wasn't there a iron mine there or something that Germany needed ? A nice fat supply center would entice the German player to really consider attacking Norway. Right now Sweden is a much better target, more production and easier to defend.

Also I suggest reducing the cost of subs for Germany from 8000 to 6000 and the same for cargo ships for everybody.

and last a question
I notice you can build Straits with engineers. what are these and how do you use them ?


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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/5/2010 5:17:02 AM   
82ndtrooper


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ok this is for the Month of July and shows the last of two turns.

starting positions from the west
as you can see the 8th motorized is moving fast to the west.




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< Message edited by 82ndtrooper -- 10/5/2010 5:18:02 AM >


_____________________________

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Honorably Discharged Jul/80

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RE: European Theatres of Operations Game 2 - 10/5/2010 5:18:21 AM   
82ndtrooper


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center/south




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