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On Tank Destroyers - 8/18/2002 1:06:40 AM   
Vetkin

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/21/2002
From: Philippines
Status: offline 		What's the best Tank Destroyer in the game??

The M18 is pretty good IMO, cheap. Except sometimes a .50 cal at the right spot can punch through their thin armor.

German StuG40s are pretty good too, good armor protection.

Would you guys rather purchase TDs or Tanks??

Tanks have better armor but are generally slower. TDs are FAST but have less protection.
Post #: 1
- 8/18/2002 2:07:40 AM   
Truckeye

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/11/2001
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		i always have a healthy portion of TDs. i love the hellcat, jgpz/70, isu122. mid war americans the m10 is a must have. hetzers are cool, but have lots of limitations. the jagdpanther is one of my favorite tanks of the war.

usually a drawback of most TDs is lack of HE, so i usually support mine with infantry. also if immobilized the german and soviets without turrets are stuck with limited arc of fire.

in SP1 it seemed the stug3 was such a value, many of my opponets and i used them exclusively. but now i take panthers when avail. pz3/4 have similar abilities, but more expensive, so i like the stugs over them.

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Post #: 2
- 8/18/2002 4:17:11 AM   
fontenoy

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 4/7/2001
From: London,Ontario,Canada
Status: offline 		If I'm playing an assault I prefer to use tanks.some of my favourites are the British VC Firefly(17pdr)it puts Tigers out of action fairly regularly.The German Panther G is also very effective and the Russian IS 122 also does adecent job.In assaults I want something that withstands infantry attacks a bit better than an open turret vehicle.When fighting defensively,I tend to purchase more TD's.The M36 Jackson is a favourite of mine.Ilike the 90mm gun for sheer hitting power.also,like Truckeye,I love to use the Jagdpanther(I actually prefer it to the Jagdtiger)they seem to withstand a lot of punishment,they're hard to knock out.This is strictly based on my experience of them in the game.
When using TD's I try to conceal them between buildings or behind hills,moving them as little as possible.Moving them to positions dictated by where th AI concentrates(and BOY does it concentrate!) enemy armour.Half the fun ofSPWAW is learning which tanks and TD's perform best through simple trial &error.I am no expert on armoured warfare.Believe me.
Regards,
Fontenoy.

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Post #: 3
- 8/18/2002 4:40:13 AM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		The T95!! nothing beats a 105 firing ap. But for a wartime TD i would pick, the Hellcat, though the French have a truck mounted 90mm that tear up any German tanks it sees

_____________________________

"History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave."
-Edmund Morris


[img]http://members.hometown.aol.com/guarana861512/myhomepage/russiankatkillers.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US[/img]
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Post #: 4
- 8/18/2002 12:24:39 PM   
Vetkin

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/21/2002
From: Philippines
Status: offline 		The Italians have a similar truck, a huge 90mm mounted on it. I don't know if its as good as the French cannon though, and what its armor penetration value is.

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Post #: 5
- 8/18/2002 5:20:17 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		I hate Wolverines :mad: Why? They are just awesome TD's and I always end up facing them when playing GE. Somewhat easy to take out, but lethal. Always have a few of them when playing U.S.

Since SP:WAW allows for "the spin dance", StuG's major weakness is almost eliminated. It can spin around and track a target just as fast as any tank as long as it's not immobilized.

Favourite one? Check out my avatar :D

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Post #: 6
- 8/18/2002 6:28:00 PM   
Vetkin

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/21/2002
From: Philippines
Status: offline 		Hellcats are better IMO cuz they're much faster hehehehe :D

Makes it easier for you to steal a flanking hill first for overwatch, especially for German or Russian late/end war heavy tanks. (Especially late Tigers, late Panthers, IS series etc.)

They're pretty flimsy though, not to mention open-topped.
One shot and usually they go kaboom! :( (If you don't place them well enough.)

They are bad for offense, better for overwatch. They can usually be taken out while moving by hidden AT guns or tanks/ tank destroyers because of their flimsy armor.

British Archers and Achilles TDs are not bad (How can they be?? With 17lb. guns hehe)

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Post #: 7
- 8/20/2002 3:30:46 AM   
Durruti

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: BCN. Spain.
Status: offline 		what do you think about the Marder ??

It's a cheap option and has enough punch to put out of action shermans.

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Post #: 8
- 8/20/2002 8:29:04 AM   
Hades

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
Status: offline 		If I remember right the Marder doesn't have very mch ammo, plus you dont need a Tank Destroyer to kill a Sherman. A fist sized rock does a god job.:D

_____________________________

"History admires the wise, but it elevates the brave."
-Edmund Morris


[img]http://members.hometown.aol.com/guarana861512/myhomepage/russiankatkillers.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US[/img]
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Post #: 9
- 8/21/2002 11:11:47 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hades
[B]If I remember right the Marder doesn't have very mch ammo, plus you dont need a Tank Destroyer to kill a Sherman. A fist sized rock does a god job.:D [/B][/QUOTE]

:D :D

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Post #: 10
- 8/21/2002 11:44:21 PM   
Kaakao

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Nashorn is probably the best tank destroyer if you use it right. It has a fire contorl and range finder at 8, very powerfull gun which can kill even the heaviest Soviet tanks and it's fast. The armor is quite weak but it's no prob because it's one shot - one dead when used properly :)

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Post #: 11
- 8/22/2002 1:29:24 AM   
Ivan

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		i belive the elephant is the ultimate tankdestroyer.
with rangefinder and firecontrol 10 it cant miss:D
still i never buy them.:(

*note to self-buy elephants next game*

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Post #: 12
- 8/22/2002 2:29:02 AM   
Kaakao

 

Posts: 207
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ivan
[B]i belive the elephant is the ultimate tankdestroyer.
with rangefinder and firecontrol 10 it cant miss:D
still i never buy them.:(

*note to self-buy elephants next game* [/B][/QUOTE]

Elephant has fire control and range finder at 6 and it's too slow to use in areas that don't have roads. But, it's still fun driving it on top of a hill watch when the enemy tries to shoot it with no hope of damage :)

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Post #: 13
- 8/22/2002 2:46:56 AM   
DerC

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 5/13/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ivan
[B]i belive the elephant is the ultimate tankdestroyer.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Agree mostly. They're a pain to kill if you're fighting an experienced player who knows how to take advantage of the massive frontal armour.

But then again, it's a very slow TD! Remember one time I purchased them. Then on the first turn, it was nice to see they move maybe two hexes per turn in bad weather. :rolleyes:

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Post #: 14
- 8/22/2002 4:24:57 AM   
Ivan

 

Posts: 73
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		hmm i must be confusing something here.
what tank is it that has firecontrol 10 or was it rangefinder*questionmark*
cos im certain theres one

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Suomi. Finland. Perkele.

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Post #: 15
- 8/22/2002 4:32:05 AM   
JediMessiah

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/1/2001
From: Elmhurst, Il, USA
Status: offline 		i like nashorns (have good hitting power, accurracy, nice ammo package, decent speed, poor armor however, but then again who goes toe to toe tank vs. td?)

elefants are nice as well, especially in good weather and vis, really act as an at-bunker with tracks and great acc/range

wolverines are also pretty good

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Post #: 16
agreed... - 8/23/2002 1:53:37 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kaakao
[B]Nashorn is probably the best tank destroyer if you use it right. It has a fire contorl and range finder at 8, very powerfull gun which can kill even the heaviest Soviet tanks and it's fast. The armor is quite weak but it's no prob because it's one shot - one dead when used properly :) [/B][/QUOTE]

I played a PBEM game recently and I experienced the power of the Nashorns... Both against me and both in my arsenal as we played a mirror game wich was a massive tank battle.

If you place the on them top of a _distant_ hill they can harvest even the strongest russian armor.:D

Artur

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Post #: 17
- 8/23/2002 8:17:19 AM   
Vetkin

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/21/2002
From: Philippines
Status: offline 		Yes, if visibility is that long I guess, what's its main gun? I mean how big is it and what's its penetration at 10 hexes?

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Post #: 18
- 8/24/2002 8:24:06 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vetkin
[B]Yes, if visibility is that long I guess, what's its main gun? I mean how big is it and what's its penetration at 10 hexes? [/B][/QUOTE]

It's an 88 :D

If you don't know the AP penetration by heart, go study... ;)

It's main advantage is it's HEAVY front armor... otherwise, it's just what it looks like... a down-scaled Tiger (hey, they had to do *something* with those 90 Porsche chassis (chasii????), didn't they?)

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Post #: 19
- 8/24/2002 10:26:41 PM   
kevsharr

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 2/5/2002
From: Conyers, Georgia
Status: offline 		The Elephant was indeed based on the Porsche chassis origanally developed as a competitor in the tiger competition.It was first designated the Ferdinand after Ferdinand Porsche and was first used in Oper. Citadel where it did not fare so well,mostly from a lack of secondary armament.This was corrected when the survivor's were rebuilt,ie a bow machine gun also a heavy deflector was added to the gun barrel just forward of the mantlet.These were redesignated the Elephant and deployed to Italy where the indeed made effective mobile bunker's.The Hornisse which was later redesignated the Nashorn on a order from Hitler was a L/70 88mm gun mounted in a open-topped superstructure on a Pzkw IV chassis.The reoson the Elephant is apparently so slow in SpWAW is that they employed a drive system that had a 700hp engine running a ac generator which in turn powered electrically powered final drives thus it was'nt a fast vehicle.They required large amount's of strategically important copper which led to the decision not to place it into mass-production

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Post #: 20
- 8/26/2002 8:48:21 AM   
Vetkin

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 7/21/2002
From: Philippines
Status: offline 		I checked out the armor on Nashorns, around 30+ in the front... That's not heavy armor... the armor on the Ferdinands and the Elephants at their front are around 200 however!

I'm just wondering why the elephants look so bulky, the M1A2 Abrams has a front armor of !670!mm! yet it looks compact and neat, unlike the Elephant which has 1/3 the armor yet looks so humongous.

Imagine an M1A2 rampaging the fields in WW2 hehehehe. Oh BTW, it has rear armor of !200!mm so Elephants have a small chance to penetrate it... in the REAR! :D

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Post #: 21
On tank destroyers - 8/26/2002 9:02:47 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		I guess it depends on how you like to play and on the game engine. A player needs to adjust his/her strategy based on many variables but the three variables that are the most basic that tend to be overlooked by so many players is terrain, weather and visibility.

An example: You have a wonderful tank destoryer the GE Elephant. Armor and main gun unmatched. Cost 150 Speed an abismal 12. Now if I was in the desert, rolling hills, fields and had good weather and good visibility 20+, I would consider purchasing this beheamoth. BUT if it was winter, night, raining or the terrain was woods, city, or swamp. This would not be my TD of choice. Consider how upset you would be as I ran my little infantry men up to your Elephant and destoryed it by assualt.

Now if I am playing a game where the visibility is 1-5 I have a hard time convincing myself to buy any TD or Tanks other than strickly a support roll. 1 platoon for every 2 companies of infantry.

As far as do I prefer tanks to TD. No.
Do I prefer TD to tanks. No.
I like to have both if I can afford it. They support each other very well. The TD support the tanks the tanks support the infantry and the infantry protect the tanks.
One thing no one has mentioned is that TD can be replaced by ATG. You give up some mobility but you gain the advantage on not having one shot one kill situation. ATG are also smaller and harder to spot.

Now as my personal preference. I would have to say the SU-57 for Russia quite fast though light armor so needs to be used for support but get 8 APRC rounds with a pen of 161. The Hellcat for the US(more speed than the Wolverine or the Jackson). Germans I do prefer Tanks (they have the best tanks during 42 to 45) or ATG. Although early years the Sig33 is good. Brits don't play them.

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Post #: 22
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