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Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 1:57:53 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline 		I've now gone into the second turn under the new patch and it turns out that ALL of my subs have received system damage - mainly to one or more of their guns and/or one of their torpedo tubes.

Something obviously got damaged in the Data Base...
Post #: 1
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 6:14:07 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Can you please post the save used when updating the scenario?
And advise which subs to look at.

It sounds like some class upgrades have kicked in.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/28/2010 6:15:04 AM >

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RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 8:34:32 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Seen it too.

Looks like US submarine deck guns are highlighted in red.

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Post #: 3
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 8:53:22 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		OK, US subs now have TWO deck guns.

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Post #: 4
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 11:16:16 AM   
Walker84


Posts: 850
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		In the game I am playing I also noticed a moderate amount of damage (2 - 6 pts) to Japanese subs - seems to be some adjustments to the weapons they are carrying.

Spotted this in the readme.

3.36. 0542 – 0673 Allied Submarines – Change Wpn lists for Split (paired) Tubes
3.37. 1902 – 1990 Japan Submarines – Change Wpn lists for Split (paired) Tubes

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Post #: 5
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 11:41:39 AM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Can you please post the save used when updating the scenario?
And advise which subs to look at.

It sounds like some class upgrades have kicked in.


This is scenario 1. All of my subs, except for two Dutch subs, have shown the problem. Just sort subs by "Sys Damage" and you can go down the list.

Here's the save where the problems showed up. I'll send the p/w by forum messaging.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ADB123 -- 11/28/2010 11:43:37 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 11:49:15 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Can I please have the save that was updated by the patch?

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RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 11:57:29 AM   
ADB123

 

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Joined: 8/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Can I please have the save that was updated by the patch?



Oops - sorry, grabbed the wrong file. This should be the correct one.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 8
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 12:06:51 PM   
ADB123

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 8/18/2009
Status: offline 		Michael -

In case this helps - here is the previous turn where the "change database?" question first came up. The subs didn't show any unusual damage this turn.

Thanks again -

Anthony

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 9
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 1:20:58 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		I can see why the damage is happening.
The class weapon array no longer resembles the array the ship is equipped with. [Very similar to the LCU device mismatch that caused issues with TOE upgrades and replacements in the initial release.]

Using a single ship weapon slot as an example, slot 3 on the sub has 1 x gun. The corresponding weapon for that slot on the new class is 2 x TT.

When damage is determined on slot 3, it is comparing 1 against 2 and deciding there is 1 device damaged with a corresponding system damage applied. The type of device is assumed to be the same.

When the ship gets back to port, the damage should be repaired.

This code has been in place since release and was in used when the first data patch ( included in patch 1 or 2 IIRC), but I don't recall if there was a restructuring of the class weapons in that one. ( I am not generally involved in data as my time is spent on coding.)

Going forward, I can protect against this misalignment in the next patch. I can use your save to check my results.


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Post #: 10
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 4:03:21 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ADB123
Something obviously got damaged in the Data Base...

Actually, now we understand the issue. Nothing "damaged". We did try to port the "DaBabes" torpedo mods over ... and they do work fine ... however these changes were clearly too much for the in game update logic.

I would strengthen my recommendation against using the in game update feature. This was always a fragile area and still is.



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Post #: 11
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 5:11:20 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

We did try to port the "DaBabes" torpedo mods over ... and they do work fine ... however these changes were clearly too much for the in game update logic.


Is there any way to get this as an optional update?? I'm playing a PBEM (scen 2) against Seille that will go only to March/April 42 before we restart. He is a novice japanese player and this short PBEM is only to help him learn as i give him feedback from what i have learned. It would be nice to be able to add the sub changes in a future game, if possible.

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Post #: 12
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/28/2010 5:14:09 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Is there any way to get this as an optional update??

Trying to do an in game update will cause issues.

Restarting will pull in the changes with no issues. No need for an optional update.



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Post #: 13
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 12:47:42 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Can someone explain this to me? What do the number and mount values mean now? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Edit: This occurred after the most recent patch was installed. I think it has to do with this thread (but I'm not really sure about that either).




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< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/29/2010 12:49:33 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 12:58:48 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		There are several explanations floating around ... but basically our attempt to plug in the DaBabes torpedo MOD caused issues with the in game update code. We now recommend not using the in game update with patch 05. Go ahead and apply patch 05, this will pick up the DB changes for new games and the code changes - but avoid the in game update. If you have aleady done an in game update we recommend going back to an earlier save prior to your application of the in game update.

Thx.


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Post #: 15
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 12:59:52 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Thanks Joe. I'll give that a shot.

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Post #: 16
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 1:32:24 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Fixed it and only had to go back two turns. Thanks guys!

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Post #: 17
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 2:40:39 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Is there any way to get this as an optional update??

Trying to do an in game update will cause issues.

Restarting will pull in the changes with no issues. No need for an optional update.





so does this mean every PBEM is damaged when using the new patch? As the Allied player I installed the patch and wasn´t even asked if I would like to have db changes or not so obviously those were installed as I then was told I´m using a different phwex (?) than my opponent when I loaded his first turn and I´ve also had all planetops being reset to stock. What else can I do than to double click the patch exe and install the patch? That´s the way I did it all the time and IIRC people are even told they shouldn´t use the auto updater anyway. But then I end up having a different version than my opponent. What´s the alternative? Having all my subs damaged and some other issues other people report after using the db changes? Or going back to 1.06g again instead of using 1.06i and waiting for the next patch.

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Post #: 18
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 2:44:43 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

There are several explanations floating around ... but basically our attempt to plug in the DaBabes torpedo MOD caused issues with the in game update code. We now recommend not using the in game update with patch 05. Go ahead and apply patch 05, this will pick up the DB changes for new games and the code changes - but avoid the in game update. If you have aleady done an in game update we recommend going back to an earlier save prior to your application of the in game update.

Thx.




what do you mean by saying "avoid in game update"? Keep going with the earlier patch? 1.06g? I rather have not a single attack bomber and non working radar than my PBEM abandoned because of issues after having played through to nearly 44. The most "funny" thing for me is the fact that my subs never really scored on my enemy´s warships but exactly the turn I did with the new patch (having a "different" version than my enemy) two sub attacks sank the Amagi... go figure if I have to redo this turn...

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Post #: 19
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 3:00:09 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		As I have got it, you could apply the patch (that will resolve code changes like radar and attack bombers), but do not accept DB changes when prompted by scenario (as this will damage subs, reset RD and switch Tojos engine for the right one).

I hope I got it right.

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Post #: 20
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 3:02:05 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Yep

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Post #: 21
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 3:21:49 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		so if I apply the previous patch and then the new one again I should get a question if I want to update the db? Just to get it right, this question is popping up after I double click the patch exe, chose the installation path and enter the serial number? If so, the first time I did that, no question about db changes popped up.

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RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 3:32:05 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Castor, I think you won't be prompted to update your existing PBEM game with the db changes until you load the saved turn from that game.  That is when you should say no.  Also, make sure the Japanese player installs the patch first, after running the turn resolution but before entering any orders for the next turn.

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Post #: 23
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 3:45:16 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Castor, I think you won't be prompted to update your existing PBEM game with the db changes until you load the saved turn from that game.  That is when you should say no.  Also, make sure the Japanese player installs the patch first, after running the turn resolution but before entering any orders for the next turn.



when I loaded the turn from my opponent I was only asked if I would like to continue because my phwex (?) file is different to that from the save. I clicked Y to continue to have the next question popping up that asked me if I would like to continue because the save is under 1.06g while I´m on 1.06i. But my opponent already was on 1.06i without db changes (so he obviously got asked at some point to update the db). Without doing the db update the game seems to now think the turn still is on g while I´m on i. And I see my PBEM being screwed up already.

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Post #: 24
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 6:08:49 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		isn´t all the db sent with the Japanese turn anyway? That could be the reason I was only asked if I want to "continue" because the db was different. I´ve never started the game as the Japanese, only updated (wasn´t asked for db update, it was obviously just done) then loaded the Allied turn that the Japanese sent me.

We´re one turn later now and I´m neither asked anything. No db difference, no different patch.

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Post #: 25
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/29/2010 7:21:23 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Hi Castor,

T *think* you're right in that it's always the Japanese player that controls whether the DB has been updated or not. With mine and Faber's game we went back a few turns......he did his part and said NO the DB updates....ended the turn sent it to me.....I opened it and said yes to PWHEX update etc but weas never asked about any DB updates and everything seems to be running ok now. We're both on 1.06.i

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Post #: 26
RE: Sub System Damage - 11/30/2010 3:09:30 AM   
vonTirpitz


Posts: 511
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Wilmington, NC
Status: offline 		Anybody had problems with Scenario 2? I've already applied the patch and DB changes to an ongoing PBEM in 9/42 a couple of turns ago and have not experienced any of the reported issues.

Perhaps we just got lucky or else are "in between" upgrade paths. I noted that the Tojo engine didn't change so I am curious as to what may or may not have happened.

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