Rail Conversion

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Rail Conversion

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Rail Conversion

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Rail Conversion - 12/9/2010 4:03:29 AM

Zoetermeer

Posts: 231
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline

I've only been able to play the game for a few minutes, so apologies if my question has already been answered or would become obvious with more playing time.

According to the manual, rail gauge conversion is basically abstracted as 'rail repair', where each rail segment has a damage rating on a 0..100 interval. Whenever a hex with a rail changes hands, the game automatically 'damages' the rail to 100% to model the difference in rail gauge standards between the two sides. However, I have two questions about this model:

1) What happens if the Axis captures a hex on turn T and then the Soviets recapture it on turn T+1, before the Axis has had a chance to perform any repairs? Do the Soviets still end up with a hex with 100% rail damage?

2) Is there no way for the Axis player to capture Soviet rolling stock and use it in forward hexes that are still on the Soviet gauge? It seems like the damage abstraction makes this impossible. I realize that the Axis historically wasn't able to do this to a great extent (though their planners were counting on it as part of the logistical planning). Maybe this is just a fine point that would make things too unnecessarily complex.

Post #: 1

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/9/2010 9:26:27 AM

rjh1971

Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

1) If the soviets retae the hex it will still be damaged, need to repair it
2) No capture of rolling stock, the moment the axis or soviets enter an enemy hex wioth rail it's damaged.

_____________________________

GG's AWD, GG's WBTS, GG's WitE Beta Tester
Beta Tester: Panzer Corps, Time of Fury, CtGW, DC CB, DC3 Barbarossa, SC WWII WiE, SC WWII WaW, SC WWI

(in reply to Zoetermeer)

Post #: 2

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/9/2010 9:46:11 AM

jomni

Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

Speaking of rail, are these in the game? RUS had them.

(in reply to rjh1971)

Post #: 3

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/9/2010 10:14:18 AM

Rotherman

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/11/2009
From: Rotherham England
Status: offline

The trains sound remarkably similar to those used in the American Civil War.

_____________________________

(in reply to jomni)

Post #: 4

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/9/2010 11:54:23 AM

kingwanabee

Posts: 103
Joined: 9/27/2004
Status: offline

Is it possible to repair the railroad as the soviets in the tutorial? I know it's not necessary, but I've been playing around with the tutorial trying to learn the system. The manual says that repair units attached to HQ's will automatically repair rails up to a certain number of hexes out. I've created RR repair brigades and attached them to all 3 HQ's on the first turn, but no repairs are ever made. I must be not understanding something.

Also, what is a good strategy for replacing generals? Zukov is the best general. At which level HQ should he be placed to make him most effective?

Thanks

(in reply to Zoetermeer)

Post #: 5

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/9/2010 12:26:18 PM

ComradeP

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline

I also encountered a bug where RR repair brigades were not fixing anything, I'm hoping it was fixed, but I haven't checked it. They were functioning normally for most other testers, just not for me, so maybe we've run into the same odd issue.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 12/9/2010 12:27:34 PM >

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to kingwanabee)

Post #: 6

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/9/2010 1:30:17 PM

jaw

Posts: 1045
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline

No, armored trains are not in the game. To simulate them properly we would have needed rail movement specific units and a smaller map scale to better represent the rail net.

(in reply to jomni)

Post #: 7

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 12:58:22 AM

kingwanabee

Posts: 103
Joined: 9/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I also encountered a bug where RR repair brigades were not fixing anything, I'm hoping it was fixed, but I haven't checked it. They were functioning normally for most other testers, just not for me, so maybe we've run into the same odd issue.

Can anyone confirm this is a bug? It could be me doing something wrong. also, can anyone answer my question about strategy for placement of generals?

Thanks

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 8

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 12:01:49 PM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kingwanabee

...also, can anyone answer my question about strategy for placement of generals?

Thanks

I would place your best leaders as high as their current rank allows. Be careful of putting them in a job that requires promotion though as there is a chance they will lose skill rating points when that happens. I would also be careful of moving good Soviet leaders up too early in the '41 campaign unless they have a very good political rating as their win/loss record will be poor and the likelihood of dismissal is high. Just my 2 cents and other testers may disagree.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 12/10/2010 12:02:04 PM >

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to kingwanabee)

Post #: 9

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 12:03:57 PM

ComradeP

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline

Zhukov will probably automatically be placed in STAVKA unless a Front commander gets sacked/executed in which case he might move there. Zhukov's fine in STAVKA until it grows beyond 900 points worth of units under its control, after which you will probably want to assign someone else there.

I'd personally suggest not assigning good generals to frontline HQ's pre-autumn 1941 as the Soviets. I'm predicting Flavio will now come in and explain how great it can be to have good generals in frontline HQ's, but in my opinion it's way too risky.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to kingwanabee)

Post #: 10

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 12:07:45 PM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

Use your good Soviet generals early and often! Makes a big, big difference. I don't understand this willingness to play with epic fail generalship at all, so much of the game revolves around good leaders.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 11

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 12:11:11 PM

karonagames

Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline

quote:

Can anyone confirm this is a bug? It could be me doing something wrong. also, can anyone answer my question about strategy for placement of generals?

I think there was a last minute change that may not have been documented, that said that automated repair units would not operate within 5(?) hexes of an enemy occupied hex.

_____________________________

It's only a Game

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 12

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 12:13:27 PM

ComradeP

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline

That would explain a lot.

Flavio: I prefer to build the army first, and attach the leader later. As it's 1941, the Germans will probably at least displace the HQ once or twice, if not pocket it. I'm not a gambler, and I'm not going to gamble with the handful of good leaders the Soviets have. With the stream of defeats coming at them, many will also be dismissed, essentially meaning you wasted AP's. I'd rather have the Germans kill the "epic fail" leaders, as that reduces the amount of bad leaders and statistically increases the chance a good leader will take its place (as there will be one less bad leader). Having the few good leaders enter the first winter season with 0 victories and 0 defeats is, to me, preferable over them entering it with 5 or less victories and over 20 defeats, as well as a fairly significant risk of being killed.

To each his own, though. You will get better results, but also have a chance that when your leaders have a bad day and fail their proximity to the front or displacement rolls, many die.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 12/10/2010 12:19:18 PM >

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to karonagames)

Post #: 13

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 1:58:57 PM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

Rail repair units will only operate within the command range of their assigned HQ (disregard for the AI) (section 14.2.2.1). So if they are assigned to a Corps HQ then they will only operate with 5 hexes of the HQ. There are also restrictions on how far a rail hex can be from a friendly railhead to be eligible for repair (section 14.2.2.4). Also see the Whatsnew.pdf file. It says:

quote:

4)Section 14.2.2.1 - Prior to December 1941, Soviet rail repair units will not automatically move to rebuild damaged rail lines that are within 5 hexes of an enemy unit.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 14

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/10/2010 11:57:03 PM

kingwanabee

Posts: 103
Joined: 9/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Rail repair units will only operate within the command range of their assigned HQ (disregard for the AI) (section 14.2.2.1).� So if they are assigned to a Corps HQ then they will only operate with 5 hexes of the HQ.� There are also restrictions on how far a rail hex can be from a friendly railhead to be eligible for repair (section 14.2.2.4).� Also see the Whatsnew.pdf file.� It says:�
quote:

4)Section 14.2.2.1 - Prior to December 1941, Soviet rail repair units will not automatically move to rebuild damaged rail lines that are within 5 hexes of an enemy unit.

Thanks, elmo.

That explains it. The tutorial map is so small that the rail crews dont have room to get "on track" before the end.

(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 15

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/11/2010 12:10:09 AM

kingwanabee

Posts: 103
Joined: 9/27/2004
Status: offline

Thanks everyone for your responses about generals. I guess what I'm really wondering is what attributes are in effect at what org level. For instance, if Zukov is the Soviets best general across the board, do his combat ratings influence down to the lowest division equally well if he is Stavka Commander as it would as Army Commander?

LOL! Does that make sense?

(in reply to Zoetermeer)

Post #: 16

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/11/2010 12:35:49 AM

Sabre21

Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kingwanabee

Thanks everyone for your responses about generals. I guess what I'm really wondering is what attributes are in effect at what org level. For instance, if Zukov is the Soviets best general across the board, do his combat ratings influence down to the lowest division equally well if he is Stavka Commander as it would as Army Commander? LOL! Does that make sense?

If a leader fails a particular die roll for a unit directly attached to his Hq, then the next higher Hq leader will attempt to pass it albeit at a higher risk. This continues up the chain but if the first couple leaders failed the roll, the chances of the Stavka or OKH leader passing it are pretty low.

Also you have to take into account how burdened those Hq's are (command points). If the Hq has more units attached to it than it can normally handle, it gets a -1 modifier for every point over that limit. Stavka and most Soviet Fronts are typically always over the limit by quite a bit so don't expect those commanders to ever pass a die roll. See section 7.6.2 of the manual for a better explanation on the use of command points.

Andy

_____________________________

(in reply to kingwanabee)

Post #: 17

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/11/2010 1:03:40 AM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

Andy makes a good point about higher leaders not getting involved unless a lower leader fails a check. So putting Zhukov at the top might not be the best place for him if he is your best general. Put him where he can have the most influence over the units you will be using for your most important offense/defense.

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester

(in reply to Sabre21)

Post #: 18

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/11/2010 1:08:52 AM

Flaviusx

Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline

Putting Zhukov on top is exactly what you want to do up until October 41 or so, actually. STAVKA only starts to overload sometime near the rasputitsa.

After that, you want to move him to a Front command and throw in somebody with a very a high admin rating to hold down the fort. (Vasilevsky or Shaposhnikov.)

I'm not sure if OKH ever overloads. Do the Germans get that many units?

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 19

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/11/2010 11:30:27 AM

ComradeP

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline

OKH only overloads in your dreams as the Axis, you never have nearly enough units to overload it. I doubt you could get it to 50% capacity even.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to Flaviusx)

Post #: 20

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/12/2010 6:24:47 AM

CarnageINC

Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline

Is it best to start at the good rail head and work your way down the chain or can you successfully have multiple units at different segment repairing their sectors? I haven't gotten to far into the game to see if my theory works so I thought I would ask the all knowing

_____________________________

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 21

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/12/2010 11:03:06 AM

karonagames

Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline

quote:

s it best to start at the good rail head and work your way down the chain or can you successfully have multiple units at different segment repairing their sectors?� I haven't gotten to far into the game to see if my theory works so I thought I would ask the all knowing�

There is only limited value in putting "Double shifts" on the railheads, they can only build 4 hexes chunks from the previous railhead location, 6 in the Baltic zone.

The Axis Have 5 Repair units: one is usually assigned to AGN to get a line through Pskov ASAP.

AGCs rail heads are important and can go in different directions I usually go Vitebsk, using as much of the Baltic rail as possible,and Mogilev to get supplies across the Dnepr ASAP to support a Drive on Bryansk and Tula.

AGS is another with with many options, I usually go for Cherkassy to maximise supply for a push on Rostov.

11th army has one which either goes towards Ztown or into the Crimea. I like going in to crimea.

_____________________________

It's only a Game

(in reply to CarnageINC)

Post #: 22

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/12/2010 11:10:43 AM

Mannock

Posts: 87
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

As stated, a rail repair unit attached to a corps can only work when it is within 5 hexes of the HQ. Though attached to OKH the rail repair unit has a 90 hex limit.

Could anyone explain to my why I would want to attach a rail repair unit to a corps instead of OKH?

_____________________________

Always from below, seldom on the same level and never from above. - Mannock revised.

(in reply to karonagames)

Post #: 23

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/12/2010 11:19:40 AM

karonagames

Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline

Construction battalions (CBs) pull double duty by helping units entrench, so for the Axis, when winter is around the corner, it is useful to have CBs at corps level to help dig lvl 3-4 entrenchments that will help your divisions survive the Blizzard.

_____________________________

It's only a Game

(in reply to Mannock)

Post #: 24

RE: Rail Conversion - 12/12/2010 1:29:07 PM

ComradeP

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline

Also, OKH doesn't normally attract construction battalions, so if you attach them there, they'll be gone next turn unless you lock it, in which case automatic support unit movement basically stops as the support units can't move up the chain through OKH.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to karonagames)

Post #: 25

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Rail Conversion

Page: [1]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

5.142

Slitherine

Rail Conversion