Rail Conversion (Full Version)

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Zoetermeer -> Rail Conversion (12/9/2010 4:03:29 AM)

I've only been able to play the game for a few minutes, so apologies if my question has already been answered or would become obvious with more playing time.

According to the manual, rail gauge conversion is basically abstracted as 'rail repair', where each rail segment has a damage rating on a 0..100 interval. Whenever a hex with a rail changes hands, the game automatically 'damages' the rail to 100% to model the difference in rail gauge standards between the two sides. However, I have two questions about this model:

1) What happens if the Axis captures a hex on turn T and then the Soviets recapture it on turn T+1, before the Axis has had a chance to perform any repairs? Do the Soviets still end up with a hex with 100% rail damage?

2) Is there no way for the Axis player to capture Soviet rolling stock and use it in forward hexes that are still on the Soviet gauge? It seems like the damage abstraction makes this impossible. I realize that the Axis historically wasn't able to do this to a great extent (though their planners were counting on it as part of the logistical planning). Maybe this is just a fine point that would make things too unnecessarily complex.



rjh1971 -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/9/2010 9:26:27 AM)

1) If the soviets retae the hex it will still be damaged, need to repair it
2) No capture of rolling stock, the moment the axis or soviets enter an enemy hex wioth rail it's damaged.



jomni -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/9/2010 9:46:11 AM)

Speaking of rail, are these in the game?  RUS had them. [:D]
[image]http://www.wio.ru/rr/ww2/leningrd.jpg[/image]



Rotherman -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/9/2010 10:14:18 AM)

The trains sound remarkably similar to those used in the American Civil War.[;)]



kingwanabee -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/9/2010 11:54:23 AM)

Is it possible to repair the railroad as the soviets in the tutorial? I know it's not necessary, but I've been playing around with the tutorial trying to learn the system. The manual says that repair units attached to HQ's will automatically repair rails up to a certain number of hexes out. I've created RR repair brigades and attached them to all 3 HQ's on the first turn, but no repairs are ever made. I must be not understanding something.

Also, what is a good strategy for replacing generals? Zukov is the best general. At which level HQ should he be placed to make him most effective?

Thanks



ComradeP -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/9/2010 12:26:18 PM)

I also encountered a bug where RR repair brigades were not fixing anything, I'm hoping it was fixed, but I haven't checked it. They were functioning normally for most other testers, just not for me, so maybe we've run into the same odd issue.



jaw -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/9/2010 1:30:17 PM)

No, armored trains are not in the game. To simulate them properly we would have needed rail movement specific units and a smaller map scale to better represent the rail net.



kingwanabee -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 12:58:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I also encountered a bug where RR repair brigades were not fixing anything, I'm hoping it was fixed, but I haven't checked it. They were functioning normally for most other testers, just not for me, so maybe we've run into the same odd issue.


Can anyone confirm this is a bug? It could be me doing something wrong. also, can anyone answer my question about strategy for placement of generals?

Thanks



elmo3 -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 12:01:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kingwanabee


...also, can anyone answer my question about strategy for placement of generals?

Thanks


I would place your best leaders as high as their current rank allows. Be careful of putting them in a job that requires promotion though as there is a chance they will lose skill rating points when that happens. I would also be careful of moving good Soviet leaders up too early in the '41 campaign unless they have a very good political rating as their win/loss record will be poor and the likelihood of dismissal is high. Just my 2 cents and other testers may disagree.



ComradeP -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 12:03:57 PM)

Zhukov will probably automatically be placed in STAVKA unless a Front commander gets sacked/executed in which case he might move there. Zhukov's fine in STAVKA until it grows beyond 900 points worth of units under its control, after which you will probably want to assign someone else there.

I'd personally suggest not assigning good generals to frontline HQ's pre-autumn 1941 as the Soviets. I'm predicting Flavio will now come in and explain how great it can be to have good generals in frontline HQ's, but in my opinion it's way too risky.



Flaviusx -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 12:07:45 PM)

Use your good Soviet generals early and often! Makes a big, big difference. I don't understand this willingness to play with epic fail generalship at all, so much of the game revolves around good leaders.





karonagames -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 12:11:11 PM)

quote:

Can anyone confirm this is a bug? It could be me doing something wrong. also, can anyone answer my question about strategy for placement of generals?


I think there was a last minute change that may not have been documented, that said that automated repair units would not operate within 5(?) hexes of an enemy occupied hex.




ComradeP -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 12:13:27 PM)

That would explain a lot.

Flavio: I prefer to build the army first, and attach the leader later. As it's 1941, the Germans will probably at least displace the HQ once or twice, if not pocket it. I'm not a gambler, and I'm not going to gamble with the handful of good leaders the Soviets have. With the stream of defeats coming at them, many will also be dismissed, essentially meaning you wasted AP's. I'd rather have the Germans kill the "epic fail" leaders, as that reduces the amount of bad leaders and statistically increases the chance a good leader will take its place (as there will be one less bad leader). Having the few good leaders enter the first winter season with 0 victories and 0 defeats is, to me, preferable over them entering it with 5 or less victories and over 20 defeats, as well as a fairly significant risk of being killed.

To each his own, though. You will get better results, but also have a chance that when your leaders have a bad day and fail their proximity to the front or displacement rolls, many die.



elmo3 -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 1:58:57 PM)

Rail repair units will only operate within the command range of their assigned HQ (disregard for the AI) (section 14.2.2.1).  So if they are assigned to a Corps HQ then they will only operate with 5 hexes of the HQ.  There are also restrictions on how far a rail hex can be from a friendly railhead to be eligible for repair (section 14.2.2.4).  Also see the Whatsnew.pdf file.  It says: 
quote:

4)Section 14.2.2.1 - Prior to December 1941, Soviet rail repair units will not automatically move to rebuild damaged rail lines that are within 5 hexes of an enemy unit.



kingwanabee -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/10/2010 11:57:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Rail repair units will only operate within the command range of their assigned HQ (disregard for the AI) (section 14.2.2.1).  So if they are assigned to a Corps HQ then they will only operate with 5 hexes of the HQ.  There are also restrictions on how far a rail hex can be from a friendly railhead to be eligible for repair (section 14.2.2.4).  Also see the Whatsnew.pdf file.  It says: 
quote:

4)Section 14.2.2.1 - Prior to December 1941, Soviet rail repair units will not automatically move to rebuild damaged rail lines that are within 5 hexes of an enemy unit.



Thanks, elmo.[:)] That explains it. The tutorial map is so small that the rail crews dont have room to get "on track" before the end.



kingwanabee -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/11/2010 12:10:09 AM)

Thanks everyone for your responses about generals. I guess what I'm really wondering is what attributes are in effect at what org level. For instance, if Zukov is the Soviets best general across the board, do his combat ratings influence down to the lowest division equally well if he is Stavka Commander as it would as Army Commander? [&:] LOL! Does that make sense?



Sabre21 -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/11/2010 12:35:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kingwanabee

Thanks everyone for your responses about generals. I guess what I'm really wondering is what attributes are in effect at what org level. For instance, if Zukov is the Soviets best general across the board, do his combat ratings influence down to the lowest division equally well if he is Stavka Commander as it would as Army Commander? [&:] LOL! Does that make sense?



If a leader fails a particular die roll for a unit directly attached to his Hq, then the next higher Hq leader will attempt to pass it albeit at a higher risk. This continues up the chain but if the first couple leaders failed the roll, the chances of the Stavka or OKH leader passing it are pretty low.

Also you have to take into account how burdened those Hq's are (command points). If the Hq has more units attached to it than it can normally handle, it gets a -1 modifier for every point over that limit. Stavka and most Soviet Fronts are typically always over the limit by quite a bit so don't expect those commanders to ever pass a die roll. See section 7.6.2 of the manual for a better explanation on the use of command points.

Andy



elmo3 -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/11/2010 1:03:40 AM)

Andy makes a good point about higher leaders not getting involved unless a lower leader fails a check.  So putting Zhukov at the top might not be the best place for him if he is your best general.  Put him where he can have the most influence over the units you will be using for your most important offense/defense.



Flaviusx -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/11/2010 1:08:52 AM)

Putting Zhukov on top is exactly what you want to do up until October 41 or so, actually. STAVKA only starts to overload sometime near the rasputitsa.

After that, you want to move him to a Front command and throw in somebody with a very a high admin rating to hold down the fort. (Vasilevsky or Shaposhnikov.)

I'm not sure if OKH ever overloads. Do the Germans get that many units?




ComradeP -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/11/2010 11:30:27 AM)

OKH only overloads in your dreams as the Axis, you never have nearly enough units to overload it. I doubt you could get it to 50% capacity even.



CarnageINC -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/12/2010 6:24:47 AM)

Is it best to start at the good rail head and work your way down the chain or can you successfully have multiple units at different segment repairing their sectors?  I haven't gotten to far into the game to see if my theory works so I thought I would ask the all knowing [;)]



karonagames -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/12/2010 11:03:06 AM)

quote:

s it best to start at the good rail head and work your way down the chain or can you successfully have multiple units at different segment repairing their sectors?  I haven't gotten to far into the game to see if my theory works so I thought I would ask the all knowing 


There is only limited value in putting "Double shifts" on the railheads, they can only build 4 hexes chunks from the previous railhead location, 6 in the Baltic zone.

The Axis Have 5 Repair units: one is usually assigned to AGN to get a line through Pskov ASAP.

AGCs rail heads are important and can go in different directions I usually go Vitebsk, using as much of the Baltic rail as possible,and Mogilev to get supplies across the Dnepr ASAP to support a Drive on Bryansk and Tula.

AGS is another with with many options, I usually go for Cherkassy to maximise supply for a push on Rostov.

11th army has one which either goes towards Ztown or into the Crimea. I like going in to crimea.




Mannock -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/12/2010 11:10:43 AM)

As stated, a rail repair unit attached to a corps can only work when it is within 5 hexes of the HQ. Though attached to OKH the rail repair unit has a 90 hex limit.

Could anyone explain to my why I would want to attach a rail repair unit to a corps instead of OKH?



karonagames -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/12/2010 11:19:40 AM)

Construction battalions (CBs) pull double duty by helping units entrench, so for the Axis, when winter is around the corner, it is useful to have CBs at corps level to help dig lvl 3-4 entrenchments that will help your divisions survive the Blizzard.



ComradeP -> RE: Rail Conversion (12/12/2010 1:29:07 PM)

Also, OKH doesn't normally attract construction battalions, so if you attach them there, they'll be gone next turn unless you lock it, in which case automatic support unit movement basically stops as the support units can't move up the chain through OKH.



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