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One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot camp...

 
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One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot camp... - 12/14/2010 4:02:15 AM   
hgilmer3


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I thought I would not mess up his thread with a bunch of questions. To keep the clutter down on his thread.

Is it advisable - in the one corps there were 2, I think, motorized/panzer divisions and 1 infantry division. Is it advisable to keep this kind of mix, because your vehicle divisions can far outstrip your ID, which can put a lot of pressure for the HQ to be in range of all units.

I ran into this in the Road to Minsk scenario and I actually reassigned two infantry out of a corp with panzers, to an infantry heavy group/corps.

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 4:04:34 AM   
hgilmer3


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Oh, and thanks for OBC, it is awesome so far.

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 4:23:19 AM   
Zovs


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Thank you for the compliments hope it is helping, working on the combat section still.

Yes, for German Corps I remove the infantry when on the move, later on if the tutorial keeps going I'll remove the 269 from the pzc on turn 2 or 3. For the Soviets once they get Army HQ it's not a big deal because they have a longer command range.


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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 5:00:46 AM   
shrek

 

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This tutorial is EXTREMELY helpful, many thanks!

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 7:23:55 AM   
mephistofileez

 

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Likewise...I'm getting the hang of it pretty well, but some of the smaller details on what certain numbers represent on the counters, and especially the part about attaching support units to individual divisions, was extremely helpful. Best thread of the WiTE forum hands down. Can't wait to read more...thanks very much for the work sir.

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 11:59:04 AM   
Zovs


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Thank you both for the nice complements, I really hope these help people out. I just posted another new section on beginning combat. Currently working on the next section that goes through the analysis process to form pockets and exploitation into the enemies flanks and rear. At least that is the intention.

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 2:21:02 PM   
jhdeerslayer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

Thank you both for the nice complements, I really hope these help people out. I just posted another new section on beginning combat. Currently working on the next section that goes through the analysis process to form pockets and exploitation into the enemies flanks and rear. At least that is the intention.


Thank you sir for you work. You can't learn enough about this great game. I played Minsk one time already and won but later found out many things I could have done better or different.

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 9:07:15 PM   
Lützow


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I have a question about airfield strikes in regard to 3rd LW base.

As shown on the screen below, there are 4 groups with spent mileage of 0%, 32% and 51%. Why the map turned red and it's impossible to conduct another strike? Shouldn't there be enough mileage left?






Attachment (1)

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 9:16:19 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Mileage: yes, ready planes as compared to the TOE total: no, as it's less than 50%. The maximum is 40, so 50% would be 20 ready aircraft, and there are 16.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 12/14/2010 9:18:22 PM >


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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 9:47:31 PM   
Lützow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Mileage: yes, ready planes as compared to the TOE total: no, as it's less than 50%. The maximum is 40, so 50% would be 20 ready aircraft, and there are 16.


Thank you, that's what I didn't see before and alway wondered why my planes were not up for another strike.

However, when air doctrine says: 'percent required to fly = 50' and 'airfield attack = 80', how these numbers correspondend to each other?

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 10:16:50 PM   
ComradeP

 

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The other percentages are related to the number the AI would send out by itself. So a setting of 50 will send out 50% of the planes the AI would send. This is based on a mystical notional strike number, not on the percentage required to fly setting. It's somewhat confusing, I know.

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/14/2010 11:09:58 PM   
Zovs


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For me understanding air missions and air doctrine is one of the more complex systems of this game. I don't know if this will help or make it worse.

From the manual:

16.1.1. AIR GROUP UNIT MILES FLOWN
There are several factors that determine how many missions and what type a particular air group unit can conduct during a turn. An air group unit can only fly a certain number of miles per turn based on its cruise speed (5.4.18) and current unit morale. The miles flown is tracked and displayed in the air base unit detail window (5.4.17) in parenthesis next to the air group unit name as both actual miles flown and percentage of available miles flown. An air group unit can continue to fly missions if miles traveled are less then cruise speed times (10 + (1/2 * group’s morale)). For example, a JU-52 air group unit with morale of 20 and a cruise speed of 160 could fly 3200 miles in a turn. The actual mileage flown is based on the type of air mission. Air transfer missions pay the range in miles, transport missions cost three times the range in miles, and all other air missions, which are considered combat missions and include fighter escort of air transport missions, pay four times the range in miles. For example, an air transport mission to a target hex 12 hexes away would expend 360 miles, or 12 times 3 times 10 miles per hex, for the transport air group unit, but an escorting fighter unit would expend 480 miles.

16.3.1. LIMITS ON CONDUCTING AIR MISSIONS
Certain missions may not be flown once an air group unit has flown any missions, to include air transfer missions, or had its air base move. In these cases, the mileage display next to that air group unit in the air base unit detail window will be greater than zero. Whenever the mileage flown is greater than zero, an air group unit may not participate in a daytime Bomb Ground Unit, Bomb City, or Air Transfer missions, and may not participate in a night-time Bomb Ground Unit, Bomb City, Bomb Airfield, or air transport mission. Note that air transfer night missions cannot be conducted. In addition; non-transport air group units can only conduct one transport mission per turn under the same restrictions (no previous mission, transfers or air base unit movement). Players are advised to execute these missions at the beginning of the turn before their air group units have begun to fly in automatic missions or their air group units are transferred or air base units are moved. In effect, air group units may only perform one of these missions per turn, and only if done before they have done anything else. All other missions can be flown multiple times in any order as long as the air group unit conducting the mission has enough mileage remaining.

Warning! Frustration awaits you if you do not keep Air Mission limits in mind as you carry out your air campaign. If the proper sequence is not followed, air group units will not be available to fly the missions you desire. To recap, some missions can only be flown as the first mission of the turn. The Missions where air group units are limited to flying them only as the first mission of the turn (no miles yet flown):
• Bomb Ground Unit (day or night)
• Bomb City (day or night)
• Bomb Airfield (night)
• Air Transport (night)
• Air Transport (day) - for non-transport aircraft, i.e. level bombers
• Air Transfer
And don’t forget that moving an air base unit adds miles flown to the air group units, also triggering the above restrictions.


page 234

Percent Required to Fly:
Indicates the percentage of an air group unit’s aircraft that must be ready for the air group unit to be able to participate in any mission. This percentage is based on the air group unit’s TOE, not the current number of aircraft present with the air group unit. Any setting over 100 will result in no air missions being conducted.

Ground Support, Interdiction Attack, Ground Attack, Airfield Attack and City Attack:
Determines the number of bombers that the computer will attempt to have participate in a ground support or strike mission as a percentage of what the computer would normally attempt to send. For example, a setting of 50 results in the computer selecting air group units in an attempt to equal half the number of bombers it would select in a notional strike. For ground support, interdiction attack, and interception air missions a setting of zero will result in these air missions not being conducted. Note that If one side has ground support set to zero, but interception set to greater than zero, that side’s fighters may fly interception missions against the other side’s ground support.

Ground Support, Interdiction Attack, Ground Attack, Airfield Attack and City Attack Escort: Determines the number of escorts for a strike mission based on a percentage of the number of bombers in the mission. For example, at a setting of 50, the computer will select air group units in an attempt to have the number of escorts equal half the number of bombers.

page 233:

The percent required to fly setting is important, as air group units that do not meet the criteria will not be available even for manual selection by the player.


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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/15/2010 7:52:24 AM   
Emx77


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This is very confusing and manual explanation doesn't help either. So please teach us by example.

Let say that air group have maximum TOE of 40 aircrafts and there is 20 of them ready. Now, we want to conduct attack with this air group and doctrine settings are: 'percent required to fly = 50' and 'airfield attack = 80' . What would be end result? If I figure out this correctly as this air group has 50% percent required to fly (20/40 ready aircrafts) it will be able to conduct attack. But it will send only 16 aircarfts to mission (80% of 20 ready arcrafts = 16 for given mission). Is this correct?

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/15/2010 10:35:01 PM   
Emx77


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Anyone?

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/16/2010 12:08:20 AM   
hgilmer3


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I wasn't even repairing rail hexes.  I surely don't know about air units!

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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/16/2010 12:59:59 PM   
karonagames


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quote:

his is very confusing and manual explanation doesn't help either. So please teach us by example.

Let say that air group have maximum TOE of 40 aircrafts and there is 20 of them ready. Now, we want to conduct attack with this air group and doctrine settings are: 'percent required to fly = 50' and 'airfield attack = 80' . What would be end result? If I figure out this correctly as this air group has 50% percent required to fly (20/40 ready aircrafts) it will be able to conduct attack. But it will send only 16 aircarfts to mission (80% of 20 ready arcrafts = 16 for given mission). Is this correct?


I am sorry no-one answered this before.

I am not the expert on this and I am trying to interpret the manual, which I agree is not clear.
the settings are basically sliders to help the AI decide which units it will attempt to send on the various missions. This may well get corrected.

The first is the master setting which tells the AI "ignore any squadrons with less than 50% readiness"

For each mission type, the numbers mean: "When I am asked to run Airfield attack missions I will look for squadrons with 80% readiness for bombers and escort them with squadrons with better than 50% readiness."

I'm assume that the 25% for interception overrides the 50% "master" setting. Thinking about it as interdiction happens in the enemy's turn, it must do.

Hope that helps

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 12/16/2010 1:01:22 PM >


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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/16/2010 1:22:16 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Bob: actually, the manual makes rather confusing statements about the other percentages being related to some "notional number" not readiness percentages. Only the percentage required to fly is, according to the manual, directly related to air group readiness.

What I don't understand is how that notional number can be so variable. For example: when attacking with the Axis, 100 bombers might turn up. When attacking with the Soviets, 800 bombers might turn up. Even assuming that the Soviets have their setting set to 100 and the Germans to 50, that's not logical as 100x2 (the 50% relative to the notional number times 2 to reach 100% of the notional number) is 200, so I'm at this point clueless how 800 planes could ever participate in the attack. It's possible that Soviet notional numbers are much higher, but 400% high seems rather unlikely.

Due to the mysterious notional number, and as it seems the game, when sending out planes, either chooses to strictly follow that number or simply send the kitchen sink over, it's VERY difficult to plan air operations as you never know how many planes are going to arrive as there are two things you can't influence, only one of which can be predicted in some way: the notional number and whether squadrons will turn back/how many planes will actually move to the target (you can predict this somewhat).

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 12/16/2010 1:25:01 PM >


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RE: One thing I wanted to ask, from operational boot ca... - 12/16/2010 1:30:38 PM   
karonagames


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Yes I think Joel needs to give us the definitive on this.

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