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The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 6:15:41 PM   
Jabba

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		Not being able to select a unit in a stack by left-clicking on it in the side panel.

The mechanic whereby you click on the units you wish to deselect is just plain weird. I cannot understand why something so clumsy and unintuative was preferred to the obvious click-on-the-unit-you-want-to-move.
Post #: 1
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 6:19:42 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		You don't know how many times I've screamed at the computer "I *hate* this interface!" after moving the wrong units and not being able to undo it. I feel your pain.

(in reply to Jabba)
Post #: 2
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 6:37:43 PM   
Dr. Foo


Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		I constantly select a unit then select another unit in another stack and end up moving the first unit to that stack with NO UNDO!

If it is too much to redo the interface then please give us undo for every unit not just HQ's.

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RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 7:22:47 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

If it is too much to redo the interface then please give us undo for every unit not just HQ's.


Undo is not just for HQ's. You can Undo the move of any unit if it's eligible.


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Post #: 4
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 7:33:35 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline 		Does anybody actually like the selection interface?  The closest I've seen is akin to "you get used to it."

Seems to be the single most disliked thing about the whole game (other than the price! *grin*).


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Post #: 5
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 7:33:49 PM   
Wikingus


Posts: 167
Joined: 9/26/2010
Status: offline 		It's pretty frustrating. I'm kind of used to it now, but still sometimes move the wrong units. This should really be changed...

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Post #: 6
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 7:41:15 PM   
parusski


Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline 		Add me to the "I hate this interface.." list too.

Put this on the patch wish list.

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Post #: 7
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 7:47:04 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		+1

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Post #: 8
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 8:12:16 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline 		Dear WITE interface "lovers", we hear you.

I'm almost done with code which would allow "better" way of unit selection. As part of it in new beta you may find that unit selection is restored after attack.

More difficult part is to support partial selection and unit shuffling in the stack, but it also almost done. Still some issues remain and due to the complexity it is not even in beta versions.

Another feature will be that, when particular unit type filter is enabled, appropriate units will be placed on the top of stack:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 9
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 8:25:22 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: E

Does anybody actually like the selection interface?  The closest I've seen is akin to "you get used to it."

Seems to be the single most disliked thing about the whole game (other than the price! *grin*).



I read about this before I bought the game, so I was prepared. Then after playing it, I actually like the way it works. It's not the way I'm used to moving units, but for some weird reason I do like it. However, I would rather it be that left-click selects the top unit and the stack appears in the right side column. Then left-clicking units in the right column would add the units one by one to your move. Left-clicking them again would remove them. Multiple left-clicking on the stack would also cycle through the units, and right clicking the top unit would bring up any options. Like TOAW.

What bothers me more than the clicking units issue is that there are no range rings for the air units. Like in WiTP-AE where the range rings are so helpful.

Yep, the price is another issue.

(in reply to E)
Post #: 10
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 8:29:05 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What bothers me more than the clicking units issue is that there are no range rings for the air units. Like in WiTP-AE where the range rings are so helpful.


There is no sense of making range rings. Air groups are not flying from their home bases, but form the staging bases. Similar to BTR, which doesn't have rings as well.

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Post #: 11
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 8:33:46 PM   
Theng

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 12/13/2002
Status: offline 		The two things I would love is a back function that lets me go back one step rather than go back to the beginning.

The other one would be that the next key gets me to the next unit in the hierarchy rather than jump from one random unit to the next. Pick an HQ, click next it goes to the first unit attached to the HQ, then the first subordinate HQ then to the first unit, second, etc unit of the 1st subordinate HQ, etc. This is going to be difficult due to the flexible unit attachment rules, but never the less awesome. I have a really hard tim remembering which units belong to which HQs etc.

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Post #: 12
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 8:43:48 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

What bothers me more than the clicking units issue is that there are no range rings for the air units. Like in WiTP-AE where the range rings are so helpful.


There is no sense of making range rings. Air groups are not flying from their home bases, but form the staging bases. Similar to BTR, which doesn't have rings as well.


Well something along the lines of range visuals, because I keep getting the message "Unavailable or out of range." I right-click a little closer and then it recons fine. Isn't this a range issue since it apparently is available?

Better than range rings would be colored hexes that are available for the selected plane. I have not used the air options much yet, and I am pretty ignorant as to what all of my options are, so my questions may be a bit stupid at this point. I apologize for this.

< Message edited by LarryP -- 12/25/2010 8:46:19 PM >

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 13
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 8:50:55 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Isn't this a range issue since it apparently is available


Not necessary, there could be plenty of reasons why mission can't be formed and range is just one of them. Besides there are some random rolls in it, so it can succeed next time.

Now if you select particular air base as staging base it will count availability by shading hexes and providing text popups telling how many planes theoretically can reach it.

_____________________________

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WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 14
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 9:41:59 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless
Dear WITE interface "lovers", we hear you.

I'm almost done with code which would allow "better" way of unit selection. As part of it in new beta you may find that unit selection is restored after attack.

More difficult part is to support partial selection and unit shuffling in the stack, but it also almost done. Still some issues remain and due to the complexity it is not even in beta versions.

Another feature will be that, when particular unit type filter is enabled, appropriate units will be placed on the top of stack:


That looks good, thanks very much.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 15
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 9:44:45 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline 		Unit type filter on stack control will be particularly useful.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 16
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 10:22:13 PM   
Jabba

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I'm almost done with code which would allow "better" way of unit selection. As part of it in new beta you may find that unit selection is restored after attack.

More difficult part is to support partial selection and unit shuffling in the stack, but it also almost done. Still some issues remain and due to the complexity it is not even in beta versions.

Another feature will be that, when particular unit type filter is enabled, appropriate units will be placed on the top of stack:


I'm very pleased to hear that this is being worked on. But I'm also a bit mystified as to why this all sounds so complicated.

What I would like to see is really simple and obvious. When you have a stack selected and you click on one unit in that stack, using the unit bar, then that unit should stay selected and the other units should deselect.

I am used to playing games like the Total War series, and this is just how it works. In those games, if you wish to select multiple units, you keep the shift key down. Otherwise, you select only the unit that is clicked on.

The shift key is already used for selecting multiple stacks in WITE (the "deliberate attack" mechanic), so IMHO the same principle should work for selecting multiple units within a stack.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 17
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 10:28:28 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline 		What I'd like to see is double clicking a stack opens the unit sidebar with all units selected. Whereas single clicking a stack opens the unit sidebar with none selected. Then left clicking units on the bar will toggle selection for each unit clicked.


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Post #: 18
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 10:29:13 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		When you click on a stack they are all selected, when you click on a unit in the unit panel it selects/deselects them. Not sure why this is a problem nor hard to use. Granted I have been using the system like this for a year.

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Post #: 19
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 10:36:49 PM   
Cerion

 

Posts: 101
Joined: 9/16/2009
From: Europe
Status: offline
quote:


ORIGINAL: Helpless
Dear WITE interface "lovers", we hear you.

I'm almost done with code which would allow "better" way of unit selection. As part of it in new beta you may find that unit selection is restored after attack.

More difficult part is to support partial selection and unit shuffling in the stack, but it also almost done. Still some issues remain and due to the complexity it is not even in beta versions.

Another feature will be that, when particular unit type filter is enabled, appropriate units will be placed on the top of stack:



GREEEEEEEAAAAATTT!!

(in reply to Jabba)
Post #: 20
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 10:56:33 PM   
Jabba

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

When you click on a stack they are all selected, when you click on a unit in the unit panel it selects/deselects them


No, it deselects them first. It only selects them if they have already been deselected, which they naturally won't be if you have selected the stack.

It is a problem because the logical and intuitive thing to do is to click on the stack you want and then click on the unit you want: two clicks. Instead you click on the stack you want and then click on the units you DON'T want: three clicks, and also counter-intuitive.

In practice I am continually clicking on stacks, clicking on the unit I want thereby deselecting it. Clicking on it again to select it again (muttering under my breath at the stupid interface), then clicking on the other units to deselect them. Total: five clicks.

And that is if I'm lucky and notice my mistake. Sometimes I end up moving the wrong unit or moving the unit with unwanted companions.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 21
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 11:00:24 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Been testing the game for a year and I have never had any problem with how stacks are handled when selected.  Just me I guess.

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Post #: 22
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 11:04:30 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

When you click on a stack they are all selected, when you click on a unit in the unit panel it selects/deselects them. Not sure why this is a problem nor hard to use. Granted I have been using the system like this for a year.


Agree. Haven't found it a problem. 9 times out of 10, when I'm clicking a stack of 3, I only have to deselect the HQ. Most of the time, I don't have stacks, but I've not played the campaign yet.

Apparently there are games out there that work differently which a lot players are used to, thus the great wail and cry.


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Post #: 23
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 11:09:35 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I joined the testing team in August and never had an issue with the way the game handles stacks. Mileage may vary. Possibly because I have never played Total War or other games mentioned as handling these things differently.



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Post #: 24
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/25/2010 11:35:43 PM   
Jabba

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

9 times out of 10, when I'm clicking a stack of 3, I only have to deselect the HQ.


I can only assume that the present mechanic is based on the assumption that players normally move stacks together. However, this is NOT the way I play, and also it doesn't seem to be the most efficient way to play.

I find myself moving each unit individually, which maximises their potential. E.g. there is no reason to attack with two or three units when one will do. Who a unit stacks with each turn varies. This means I am continually having to deselect units that I do not wish to move.

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Post #: 25
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/26/2010 2:45:15 AM   
hgilmer3


Posts: 530
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline 		I have had issues with the way we select units in a stack.  Sometimes I want to move only one unit and end up moving the 2 I did not want to move.  I feel the exact opposite would be the way I prefer it, but I would not know until I actually used it.

I understand the reasoning behind not letting us undo some moves.  It could be used in a gamey fashion to scout enemy units and enemy areas.


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Post #: 26
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/26/2010 2:57:05 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jabba

quote:

9 times out of 10, when I'm clicking a stack of 3, I only have to deselect the HQ.


I can only assume that the present mechanic is based on the assumption that players normally move stacks together. However, this is NOT the way I play, and also it doesn't seem to be the most efficient way to play.

I find myself moving each unit individually, which maximises their potential. E.g. there is no reason to attack with two or three units when one will do. Who a unit stacks with each turn varies. This means I am continually having to deselect units that I do not wish to move.


For me, this is only an issue on the first turn when there are stacks. After than turn, my units are almost invariably single units trying to keep a pocket closed, or a unit and its HQ. But I haven't played the campaign yet, so maybe my experience is limited and it is an issue there.

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Post #: 27
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/26/2010 4:57:45 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

No, it deselects them first. It only selects them if they have already been deselected, which they naturally won't be if you have selected the stack.


No when you click on a stack everything in the stack is selected by default. You have to deselect those that you dont' want to move or attack with.


< Message edited by dlazov66 -- 12/26/2010 4:58:42 AM >

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Post #: 28
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/26/2010 5:03:16 AM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Speak from an ergometric perspective, it would be very elegant to be able to simply right click on the unit on the map to open it rather than having to select it on the map, and then open it from the unit side bar.


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Post #: 29
RE: The most annoying thing... - 12/26/2010 7:59:41 AM   
Jabba

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

No when you click on a stack everything in the stack is selected by default. You have to deselect those that you dont' want to move or attack with


I know this, and have posted about this several times.

You wrote "when you click on a unit in the unit panel it selects/deselects them". If that were true it would be great, but it is not. The order for subsequent clicks is deselects/selects.

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 30
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