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RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:17:47 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

People like and do things differently, deal with it.


Perhaps you should practice what you preach, deal with it.

Also notice my sig?

So you came to this forum to tell us all about some other game? That makes you little more than an advertising bot. X3 isn't all that great, I have played each iteration at some point and they are all the exact same game with some newer shiny features tacked on each time.

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Post #: 31
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:18:08 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

My agrument is that the current fuel system is annoying, very very annoying.  If you fail to see the logic in it there is nothing I can do to help.
 
This game has hundreds of world, but I reduced to mircomanaging the fuel of every ship in my fleet so that they can be counted on do what they are suppose to do when I want them to do it.
 
I fail to see the difference between adding a refueling ship to every fleet as opposed to supply bubbles.  Except that maybe I wouldn't have to worry about my fleet's destoryers running out of fuel before my crusiers because if they were in supply they would all have fuel.  Or is the solution an all capital ship fleet with exactly the same fuel amounts....er wait isn't that the way it currently works?
 
Reduce the fuel ranges... sound just like supply bubbles to me, but again I wouldn't have to worry if they have fuel or not because if they were in the bubble they would automatically.     
 
Your too lazy to load your own troops, but apparently you just love filling up each and every ship so it will go where it is suppose to and do what you want it to do.


I agree with you cmdrnarrain they should remove the fuel micromanaging.

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Post #: 32
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:35:08 PM   
BigWolfChris


Posts: 634
Joined: 3/31/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sithuk

Many thanks BigWolf. I was going to try and create the "super fuel depots" and position them strategically but haven't got to that point in today's game yet. Its good to know that it'll work fine. Cheers for the reminder to put plenty of docking bays on it. Any tips for the number of gas extractors and cargo capacity? I'll need something to handle 30 ship fleet ideally.



The current design I'm using is
20 Docks
20 Cargo Bays
4 Gas Extractors
2 Energy Collectors (for system bases, useless inside nebulae)

There will still be a delay when you have very large or multiple fleets
If the area will be heavily used, increase the number of docks, bays and extractors

Unless you intend to have a fleet in protection, you also need to ensure you have enough weapons and shields onboard to handle an enemy fleet

You also eventually want two types of these bases, one for each reactor gas (caslon and hydrogen)
Plus, due to the expense of these, pick wisely where you place these bases as too many will send your reserves down the drain

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Post #: 33
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:43:29 PM   
BigWolfChris


Posts: 634
Joined: 3/31/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

X3 doesn't have a fuel system, except for jumpdrives,


I guess that's why energy cell platforms are needed to be STRATEGICALLY placed all around the universe? Universal traders require energy because they use the jumpdrives "all the time". pfft


Outside of jumpdrives, Energy cells are only apart of the X3 production economy and are no more automatic then DW without mods


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Post #: 34
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:48:39 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

Outside of jumpdrives, Energy cells are only apart of the X3 production economy and are no more automatic then DW without mods


Really? Then why are all those transports I raid in the game carrying energy cells around? Energy cells are very important for just about everything in the game and they are "automatically" moved around by the AI as well as my own automated traders and I don't have to have any mod to do that with. If you had Terran you would know that but obviously you don't. The game also automatically delivers energy cells to ALL the UNIVERSAL TRADERS for jumping around the universe.

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Post #: 35
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:51:11 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline 		I like that design for a forward resupply base. Hey we should do some kind of design swap or ship design depot...

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Post #: 36
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:52:18 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Outside of jumpdrives, Energy cells are only apart of the X3 production economy and are no more automatic then DW without mods


Just ignore him BigWolf, he has been running to every thread spamming about X3 without contributing anything to the forum.

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Post #: 37
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:53:19 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Outside of jumpdrives, Energy cells are only apart of the X3 production economy and are no more automatic then DW without mods


Just ignore him BigWolf, he has been running to every thread spamming about X3 without contributing anything to the forum.


Lol do you need reinforcements now? Can't fight your own debates Troll?

You might take a look in the mirror bud. You're the one acting like you own this forum and threads.

_____________________________

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Post #: 38
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 10:55:39 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline 		If by 'acting like I own the forum' you mean kindly asking you to stop advertising another game while contributing nothing to the threads you post in, then I suppose you're right.

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Post #: 39
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 11:09:27 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
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quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111

If by 'acting like I own the forum' you mean kindly asking you to stop advertising another game while contributing nothing to the threads you post in, then I suppose you're right.


Thing is you're not a moderator and you have no right to tell me I can't have an opinon here. I am comparing this game to X3 and I have that right. You are beyond your rights acting like a moderator. But, keep it up you are just hanging yourself.

_____________________________

X3:Universe of games rules them all!! Xtra coming soon X3:REBIRTH 4th qtr 2011 YAY!

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Post #: 40
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/29/2010 11:14:11 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1
Thing is you're not a moderator and you have no right to tell me I can't have an opinon here. I am comparing this game to X3 and I have that right. You are beyond your rights acting like a moderator. But, keep it up you are just hanging yourself.

I'm well within my rights to ask you to stop doing something, I never claimed to be a moderator and I never told you that you couldn't do something. I simply requested that you start actually contributing rather than going "LOL this game has lots of problems. X3 is perfect!"

That sort of post doesn't help the forum or contribute to the discussion, it is simply fanboyism leaking out all over the forum. If you want to make a post comparing the game to X3, feel free to make your own thread and do so but please don't shove your game in our face in every thread, especially when it isn't even relevant to the topic.

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Post #: 41
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 12:26:32 AM   
Spacecadet

 

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Why would you want to remove a Strategic resource?

Pretty much takes a huge chunk out of the Economy as well.

Yeah, I've seen posts about people running low on fuel at certain locations, but there are fixes for this.


One pretty effective solution I use is when I redesign all my ships, I put the Military sector on Hydrogen power and the Private sector on Caslon.
If you put everything on Hydrogen (because it's more efficient), then you end up with Caslon stockpiling all over clogging things up from not being used. Not to mention you'll have a bunch of Caslon mines working for nothing.

Two fuel sources means more fuel and more work for the Private sector, which results in more Private sector ships being built.

Keeps your Economy humming



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Post #: 42
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 12:28:10 AM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet
Keeps your Economy humming

Good idea, I'll have to try that. I noticed the large caslon buildup when I switched to the more efficient fusion reactors but wasn't sure what to do about it.

(in reply to Spacecadet)
Post #: 43
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 12:30:29 AM   
feygan

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		Find it hard to see now after all the patches how anyone can have fuel problems, its as easy as:

1. Designs all ships with more than just a single fuel tank (if its deep space exploration you want lots otherwise 2-3 is plenty)
2. When colonizing a new planet have a quick look in the system to see if theres a gas giant for the fuel type you want and plob down a mining station.
3. Ensure you have plenty of docking bays in your space ports so ships don't sit wasting fuel in a docking queue just to refuel.
4. Let the frieghters do the rest for you.

So really if someone can't spend 5 mins making a sensible design, then another 5 mins checking for a gas giant in system the problem no longer lies in the game mechanics with fuel but rather short sighted playing. As someone already stated this is meant to be a space STRATEGY game not an xbox pew pew.

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Post #: 44
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 1:32:33 AM   
hewwo

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

Your too lazy to load your own troops, but apparently you just love filling up each and every ship so it will go where it is suppose to and do what you want it to do.


Haha, the man has a point :) I love the concept of limited fuel, but I agree that somehow it should be made a bit more intuitive.

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Post #: 45
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 1:50:24 AM   
BigWolfChris


Posts: 634
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diablo1

quote:

Outside of jumpdrives, Energy cells are only apart of the X3 production economy and are no more automatic then DW without mods


Really? Then why are all those transports I raid in the game carrying energy cells around? Energy cells are very important for just about everything in the game and they are "automatically" moved around by the AI as well as my own automated traders and I don't have to have any mod to do that with. If you had Terran you would know that but obviously you don't. The game also automatically delivers energy cells to ALL the UNIVERSAL TRADERS for jumping around the universe.


Last response to point out, I have played all the X games, and have been on the Egosoft forums for over 7 years
I was apart of the beta testing and a member of the DevNet

So for energy cells
Energy cells are on everything because the game has been designed to have energy cell gaps inside the economy just to give the player (you) a gap to plug and an easy trade route
But again, they are mostly for FACTORY production, sure, your UTs will use them up... but nowhere near enough to ever cause a shortage
(you can run an entire trader fleet (x5) off a fully stocked solar plant for jumpdrives)


Look, I know the pros and cons of X as well as the next person, and it isn't as fantastic a game as you bring across
I have no idea how long you've played the game, but you sound like me when I first played X2, amazed by the shear magnitude of the thing... but after the initial amazement, I started seeing the limitations and repetitiveness and got bored... though it didn't stop me from enjoying X3R & X3TC, but then I got bored with those games after a couple of months of playing

But just to finish off... why the hell do we give a damn about X on the DW forum? That's like bitching that X isn't as good as Halo...
All spacey and sci-fi, but they are all different genres looking to appease different crowds using different ideas and targets, all with their own problems and issues and each with their own good parts, but in noway comparable to each other
Though, while we're at it, which do we think is the better Pear? Apples or Oranges?

Back to the topic (I'm now ignoring any non-DW chat that is not within context of a thread)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

One pretty effective solution I use is when I redesign all my ships, I put the Military sector on Hydrogen power and the Private sector on Caslon.
If you put everything on Hydrogen (because it's more efficient), then you end up with Caslon stockpiling all over clogging things up from not being used. Not to mention you'll have a bunch of Caslon mines working for nothing.

Two fuel sources means more fuel and more work for the Private sector, which results in more Private sector ships being built.

Keeps your Economy humming [:D





You know, I was thinking about doing something like this earlier
Though my reasoning for keeping Privates on Caslon, is that you'll still have caslon reactors floating around near the end due to them not being destroyed or upgraded, though Military you can force onto Hydrogen

Does this work out well for you?

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(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 46
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 2:04:27 AM   
hal9000


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		would be nice to have military only docking bays too, so there are now more traffic jams from freighters,
and I'd really like to have military supply bases that act as headquarters for my fleets. ideally I can build them in strategically important places (even deep space) and the get supplied with fuel and troops from the private sector.


(in reply to BigWolfChris)
Post #: 47
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 3:50:36 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cmdrnarrain

My agrument is that the current fuel system is annoying, very very annoying.  If you fail to see the logic in it there is nothing I can do to help.
 
This game has hundreds of world, but I reduced to mircomanaging the fuel of every ship in my fleet so that they can be counted on do what they are suppose to do when I want them to do it.
 
I fail to see the difference between adding a refueling ship to every fleet as opposed to supply bubbles.  Except that maybe I wouldn't have to worry about my fleet's destoryers running out of fuel before my crusiers because if they were in supply they would all have fuel.  Or is the solution an all capital ship fleet with exactly the same fuel amounts....er wait isn't that the way it currently works?
 
Reduce the fuel ranges... sound just like supply bubbles to me, but again I wouldn't have to worry if they have fuel or not because if they were in the bubble they would automatically.     
 
Your too lazy to load your own troops, but apparently you just love filling up each and every ship so it will go where it is suppose to and do what you want it to do.


Wow, I'm detecting some hostility here.

I am not seeing the annoyance in this system at all. The ships under automation take care of themselves, I can refuel a fleet with a single click of a button, and it just takes a little forward thinking on my part to ensure that it all works.

Just a few things to help with fuel.

  • Build gas mining stations
  • Build 'refueling stations' in between long distance spaceports. (these are simply gas mining stations or star bases with a gas miner and lots of cargo).
  • Put a few extra fuel tanks on your ships.


As a compromise, Elliot could code it so that with a game setting you can turn fuel ranges on or off. I personally like the fuel and want to keep it as is.

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Post #: 48
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 3:53:52 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

Why would you want to remove a Strategic resource?

Pretty much takes a huge chunk out of the Economy as well.

Yeah, I've seen posts about people running low on fuel at certain locations, but there are fixes for this.


One pretty effective solution I use is when I redesign all my ships, I put the Military sector on Hydrogen power and the Private sector on Caslon.
If you put everything on Hydrogen (because it's more efficient), then you end up with Caslon stockpiling all over clogging things up from not being used. Not to mention you'll have a bunch of Caslon mines working for nothing.

Two fuel sources means more fuel and more work for the Private sector, which results in more Private sector ships being built.

Keeps your Economy humming





That is a very good idea. I think I need to do that.

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Post #: 49
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 4:11:57 AM   
lordxorn


Posts: 768
Joined: 12/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hal9000

would be nice to have military only docking bays too, so there are now more traffic jams from freighters,
and I'd really like to have military supply bases that act as headquarters for my fleets. ideally I can build them in strategically important places (even deep space) and the get supplied with fuel and troops from the private sector.




Nice fleet HQ, or Field HQs =)

We are getting into Shark7's territory now, the grognard system. lol


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Post #: 50
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 4:22:56 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn


quote:

ORIGINAL: hal9000

would be nice to have military only docking bays too, so there are now more traffic jams from freighters,
and I'd really like to have military supply bases that act as headquarters for my fleets. ideally I can build them in strategically important places (even deep space) and the get supplied with fuel and troops from the private sector.




Nice fleet HQ, or Field HQs =)

We are getting into Shark7's territory now, the grognard system. lol



Grognard = an old complaining soldier...also someone who enjoys playing wargames...

Well I certainly have the complaining part down to a fine science.

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Post #: 51
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 6:35:03 AM   
hal9000


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		so entering the grognard system would be a good thingy?

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 52
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 6:39:28 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hal9000

so entering the grognard system would be a good thingy?


If you like to complain its grand.

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Post #: 53
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 6:49:32 AM   
Spacecadet

 

Posts: 1780
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

One pretty effective solution I use is when I redesign all my ships, I put the Military sector on Hydrogen power and the Private sector on Caslon.
If you put everything on Hydrogen (because it's more efficient), then you end up with Caslon stockpiling all over clogging things up from not being used. Not to mention you'll have a bunch of Caslon mines working for nothing.

Two fuel sources means more fuel and more work for the Private sector, which results in more Private sector ships being built.

Keeps your Economy humming [:D




You know, I was thinking about doing something like this earlier
Though my reasoning for keeping Privates on Caslon, is that you'll still have caslon reactors floating around near the end due to them not being destroyed or upgraded, though Military you can force onto Hydrogen

Does this work out well for you?


Works like a champ for me.

The Caslon based Reactors have more than enough ummph to power all the Private ships - Freighters, Passenger ships, and Miners.

You could probably put them on Mines too.

Even with this, I generally still have quite a bit of Calson on hand, but at least it's being used productively and my Military isn't fighting over the Hydrogen




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Post #: 54
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 2:45:58 PM   
Queeg


Posts: 495
Joined: 6/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Personally I like the DW method, as it promotes building strategic fuel stations/planets and using actual strategy for warfare


Agreed. A space game without a fuel requirement would be like a wargame without a supply requirement.

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Post #: 55
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 3:22:43 PM   
AminMaalouf

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		I agree.

I love the fact that DW has lots of different resources and that fuel can actually be a factor that requires attention.

(in reply to Queeg)
Post #: 56
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 3:25:24 PM   
Lord_Astraios

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		It should be made as an option for those who dont like fuel ranges,  go to the options and click.  For me,  i like it as it is.

Also in my fleets plus i id them with a tag in the design,  for normal range and long range for ships to go deep in to enemy territory or deep space.

Plus if im going to send a fleet in to deep space,  i place an "outpost" a base in a planet and with 4 warships,  also i add some armament to the base too,  so i have a secured spot so my fleet wont have to travel far for fuel.  Sure it costs but it pays for itself.


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Post #: 57
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 4:15:03 PM   
Lonck

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 11/23/2010
Status: offline 		My only issue with fuel is that the stupid freighters don't pick it up from stations and drop it at colony.  Maybe this was fixed in RotS?

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Post #: 58
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 4:27:55 PM   
J HG T


Posts: 1093
Joined: 5/14/2010
From: Kiadia Prime
Status: offline 		Fuel is important part of strategy in DW. It's fine as it is. No changes needed.

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Post #: 59
RE: Get rid of fuel - 12/30/2010 4:28:21 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lord_Astraios

It should be made as an option for those who dont like fuel ranges,  go to the options and click.  For me,  i like it as it is.

Also in my fleets plus i id them with a tag in the design,  for normal range and long range for ships to go deep in to enemy territory or deep space.

Plus if im going to send a fleet in to deep space,  i place an "outpost" a base in a planet and with 4 warships,  also i add some armament to the base too,  so i have a secured spot so my fleet wont have to travel far for fuel.  Sure it costs but it pays for itself.



That is essentially what I do with a 'Fleet Depot'. Basically its a resupply base, built in a gas cloud or on a gas giant. It has cargo, gas miner, LR sensor, and construction bay (for repair), and is heavily shielded/armed to the teeth. Generally I put 24 shields, 20 lasers, and some torpedoes etc. As a general rule, they can take care of themselves, or at the very least do some damage before going down. When relations start to sour with an AI race I find a good place for it and build it.

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