Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

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ORIGINAL: vettim89


Three months to fully prep a Marine Div and it would be Allied again. At this stage of the game you could at best class it as a diversion.

By the way, all the facts I just stated make the case for you to leave Marcus Island alone. It is too far away from supporting bases and Brad could just take it right back. It could become your Hougoumont

You could land two divisions of any stripe with 20-30 prep and wipe it clean in a couple of weeks. They get experience, and back at PH re-build quickly if PacFlt is there.

Your comment on the 6000 man limit being a game-changer is spot-on. If you have base forces needed to do constructive work you can't defend the place, and vice versa.

Glad you brought up Marcus I. I've thought that same thing. Too soon, too deep. Those guys are sacrificial lambs.

Edit: wrote this before reading CR's two posts above.

If you are talking about Midway, not exactly. Either they win on the first day or they attack thereafter without supplies, unless you land supplies daily. This is because two divisions is way beyond the point where all supplies ashore will be taken at the end of the turn by the over stacking penalty.

But - two divisions ought to blast away all enemy forces upon landing. The only reservation I have is that with 20-30% prep I wonder if they will suffer such disruption that even such large forces would be unable to handle a regiment.

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

But - two divisions ought to blast away all enemy forces upon landing. The only reservation I have is that with 20-30% prep I wonder if they will suffer such disruption that even such large forces would be unable to handle a regiment.

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ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

[Maybe you'll get his attention if the carriers show up outside of Minsk

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India: 6th Guards/C Div. will evaporate tomorrow; 48th Div. moved a hex west off any road into a jungle/coastal hex. Is there any reason Brad can't use subs or amphibious patrol aircraft to lift these troops out? I'll get troops there to finish them off as soon as possible. In the meantime, aircraft and bombardment TFs will pay them a visit. To the south, an IJA remant stack aouth of Goa retreated after another attack.

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

CR,

You are right to value the taking of risks. I mean actual risks, not just actions that you think your opponent will perceive as risky. The difference is, if you are trying to be perceived as taking risks but in reality are playing timid with some faux risks out there, your opponent will catch on.

When your opponent knows that you are willing to risk, and you are willing to risk, that greatly enlarges the scope of your actions that he must consider.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, CB, how much snow did you get?

As for the Indian naval vessel hitting a merchant ship, two questions:

1. Why is the Indian newscaster speaking English?

2. Why are there passengers milling around on a naval vessel?

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Well, they speak English in Germany, too, but I would expect German newscasts to be in German.

Is English prevalant in India? For instance are there so many languages spoken in India that English is a useful "universal trade language"?

Not that you're necessarily an expert on India, but I'm just curious.

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ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Stream of consciousness and an aar at the same time . . . best of both worlds imo.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Wow! That's interesting, and I had no idea. (I did know that Hindi was a/the major language, but that was about the extent of my knowledge.)

So, India is having the same success in supplanting English that we Americans did in implmenting the metric system....(ah, I still remember my 7th grade math teacher scaring the class to death with that announcement).

P.S. Somebody correctly said that this AAR is turning into the Thread Light. Arg, I apologize for the stream of consciousness stuff. I'll try to get back on track, gents.

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ORIGINAL: vettim89

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

CR,

You are right to value the taking of risks. I mean actual risks, not just actions that you think your opponent will perceive as risky. The difference is, if you are trying to be perceived as taking risks but in reality are playing timid with some faux risks out there, your opponent will catch on.

When your opponent knows that you are willing to risk, and you are willing to risk, that greatly enlarges the scope of your actions that he must consider.

Huh? I think only Vincini could understand that

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Huh? I think only Vincini could understand that

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Well, darn it, even somebody as eloquent, resolved, svelte, and humble as I am has been unable to sway the onlookers. Shoot, I hate it when my omnisicence proves flawed.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

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Marcus: Vettim, you're exactly right about Marcus Island, but I'm considering taking it with the full expectation that I won't hold it. Why? Four reasons: (1) I'll garrison the island with a RCT and a Marine CD, which means it will exact a toll on the Japanese in re-taking it; (2) If I take Wake and Marcus, Brad's full attention is going to be that way for awhile; I think this will help the Allies move on Tarawa (forces already prepped at Pearl); (3) according to SigInt, Brad has had just 2k troops at Iwo since the start of the war - attack Marcus and I'll have Brad beefing up security there, an any troops siphoned off the real targets is a bonus; and (4) I want these moves to lend the appearance (along with my build up in the Aleutians) that the Allies are looking this way - CenPac and NoPac. This will be critical come early '43 when the Allies commit a large feint toward the Kuriles while actually moving on Sumatra. Despite all those "worthwhile" goals, I'm still not positive I'll go through with the Marcus invasion

Something many dont factor in is you are not doing these in isolation, I can imagine the chagrin at seeing landings at Wake & Marcus, movement in the Noumea & Aleutians areas plus the continued advance in India.

Where does QBall react, (neither Wake or Marcus are key points, but bleeding annoying losses as they cramp the navsearch ability of the empire) Noumea is also acceptable as a loss though a far better potential base for the Allies. Action in the Addu/Kiska area might really start bells ringing given your History.

If you also plan to hit the Tarawa/Makin area you just might get QBall running from pillar to post and make a mistake.

This is going to make good reading soon.


< Message edited by JeffK -- 2/3/2011 7:27:48 AM >

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Canoerebel)

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I would say that English is the language used by default in government, medicine and much of higher education in India.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, I understood it!

I think witpqs is right - there is merit in attacking for the sake of attacking as long as it's part of a well-thought-out plan and not just flying off the handle. Two things I can think of:

1) As witpqs is points out, it can put the notion into the opponent's head that you're willing to attack.
2) Sometimes, an attack has totally unforeseen consquences: the opponent makes a mistake, or overreacts, or does something rash. Heck that's what happened with the Doolittle Raid - a huge risk of a rare and valuable Allied asset to do something that really couldn't be done and wouldn't accomplish much even if it was done...only that it was done and led directly to the Battle of Midway.

Well, I've just stated the obvious. Sorry guys, I know you know all this stuff. But sometimes we forget to factor in item two merely because we CAN'T predict something of the sort happening. But I saw it happen in my games with Miller and John III, where wacky Allied attacks ended up prompting my opponents to do something wacky that really cost them.

Sometimes, bringing pressure to bear is worthwhile in and of itself.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

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ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Do you remember the stress and trauma of those game weeks Dan? I sank 100s of your ships, drove you out of Hokkaido, and YOU STILL KEPT COMING. I'm starting to get the cold shakes again...

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It was a nutty, captivating, amazing sequence, wasn't it?! Here's kind of how I remember the battle, John:

1. Allies get pretty decent strategic surprise. You catch wind of the invasion fleet approaching northern Japan, and you're wondering where they are heading (and I am too, somewhat!).

2. You had just finished withdrawing most of your Australian Expeditionary Army (don't make me relive that debacle!) from Oz to places much closer to Japan.

3. My invasion force came ashore on Hokkaido in relatively decent shape, but very quickly the wrath of Japan descended, sinking scores (hundreds?) of transports.

4. I managed to take Sopporro and another base or two or three, but you counterinvaded right behind me and chased my beleauged force right up the coast. While I was trying to figure out how to save my Hokkaido army, I landed a force on lightly garrisoned Sikhalin Island and managed to take both bases (and this proved the key moment in the battle). Then I surprised myself in evacuating a decent part of my Hokkaido army to Sikhalin Island. Winter had descended, so you had no chance to counterinvade for months.

5. Meanwhile, the KB and Kaigun arrived and we engaged in a bitter battle all around the Kuriles. I took a shellacking. I had already issued orders during one critical turn for the remnants of my fleet to withdraw, effectively giving up on the invasion, when I saw the possiblity to draw to an inside straight. I sent a bunch of PBY Liberators to the Allied airfields or two on Hokkaido and Sikhalin. I didn't have any base forces, but thought there was a shot they might sortie and find your capital ships unprotected. It worked, and how. Suddenly a bunch of IJN carriers were damaged. Then several more ran into Allied combat TFs when I somehow guessed exactly where one of your carrier TFs would end a turn.

6. As a result of all this, the KB was weakened considerably. Meantime, my carriers were totally out of aircraft...but I managed to land enough supply at Shikuka to rearm them. So suddenly, instead of having a totally depleted Allied carrier force facing an overwhelming and untouched KB, I had a totally potent carrier force facing a very dimished KB. And all that happened over the span of about two turns.

7. By the time spring arrive, the Allies had consolidated their hold on Sikhalin Island and the campaign had ended. My supply line was intact as were my carriers. I was going to be okay.

Man, what a battle!

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It was a nutty, captivating, amazing sequence, wasn't it?! Here's kind of how I remember the battle, John:

1. Allies get pretty decent strategic surprise. You catch wind of the invasion fleet approaching northern Japan, and you're wondering where they are heading (and I am too, somewhat!).

2. You had just finished withdrawing most of your Australian Expeditionary Army (don't make me relive that debacle!) from Oz to places much closer to Japan.

3. My invasion force came ashore on Hokkaido in relatively decent shape, but very quickly the wrath of Japan descended, sinking scores (hundreds?) of transports.

4. I managed to take Sopporro and another base or two or three, but you counterinvaded right behind me and chased my beleauged force right up the coast. While I was trying to figure out how to save my Hokkaido army, I landed a force on lightly garrisoned Sikhalin Island and managed to take both bases (and this proved the key moment in the battle). Then I surprised myself in evacuating a decent part of my Hokkaido army to Sikhalin Island. Winter had descended, so you had no chance to counterinvade for months.

5. Meanwhile, the KB and Kaigun arrived and we engaged in a bitter battle all around the Kuriles. I took a shellacking. I had already issued orders during one critical turn for the remnants of my fleet to withdraw, effectively giving up on the invasion, when I saw the possiblity to draw to an inside straight. I sent a bunch of PBY Liberators to the Allied airfields or two on Hokkaido and Sikhalin. I didn't have any base forces, but thought there was a shot they might sortie and find your capital ships unprotected. It worked, and how. Suddenly a bunch of IJN carriers were damaged. Then several more ran into Allied combat TFs when I somehow guessed exactly where one of your carrier TFs would end a turn.

6. As a result of all this, the KB was weakened considerably. Meantime, my carriers were totally out of aircraft...but I managed to land enough supply at Shikuka to rearm them. So suddenly, instead of having a totally depleted Allied carrier force facing an overwhelming and untouched KB, I had a totally potent carrier force facing a very dimished KB. And all that happened over the span of about two turns.

7. By the time spring arrive, the Allies had consolidated their hold on Sikhalin Island and the campaign had ended. My supply line was intact as were my carriers. I was going to be okay.

Man, what a battle!

Well planned and all went according to the script.