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RE: Enemy carriers near SRA!

 
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RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 8:01:37 PM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tullius
Are the replacement rates for AC historically correct ? In the game the US forces become ca. 4000 Hellcats. But until 11/45 12,275 Hellcats were built. Even when you substract 2.000 planes for the British forces there is still a gap of 6000 planes. Alone in March 1945 606 Hellcat -5/-5N were delivered. That was also the peak. In the game the player will receive only 223.


I read that the Japanese produced about 70,000 planes during WW2, while losses amounted to 40,000 (I believe it was a source cited in a wiki article). In AE they produce a lot less (by rough estimate), and if you look at the recent Stoneage-Spruance AAR, also the losses will consequently be a lot lower (even taking into account that "their war" was a year shorter). Maybe the above numbers were wrong by a factor >>2, but they sound not too unreasonable. Anyone having any idea where the discrepancy is coming from?

PS: taking 40,000 losses in 4x12 months means an average of ca 1000 plane losses per month... a quite lot...

(in reply to Tullius)
Post #: 2071
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 8:11:53 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad
So I guess I don't need to post here anymore. It seems that others know more than I do. I think John will do good since I feel he is a better player than Andy is, but it will be a fight and I still think that Andy will not only be able to hold what he has but expand.


Throwing KB now, will be unnecessary risk, but battle of attrition is still on Japan side for few months. If Japan will try to get Carrier battle, it could lose, but even that will not ensure Allied air-superiority. It would be best to keep KB in reserve now, in which case Allies can not expand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
I said LBA range because I meant 4E-range. That means that the allies can support all operations in the area with the untouchable deathstar (a 100 4E airfield attack).


It is 9/43. Actually THE ONLY tough bomber currently is B17. B29 are still not in production. They will be at 4/44.

quote:

The base is also inside fighter ferry-range, meaning that the allies can constantly replace all fighter losses.


Those fighters must first fly from OPEN base. Allies can close Japan airbases? Well, Japan can also. Two can play that game. Is it level 4? That needs 50+(4*5)=70. Less than 70% damage.

quote:

This battle will be decided in a week, maybe two...if it goes to extremes, say a month. What will decide this is aircraft in the reserve pool, composition and location of forces, avaliable supply, distance to replenishment facilities.


Decided in what way? Japan will suddenly lose all bases around Timor? In two weeks? Or maybe it will lose all planes, and will be unable to replace them? Battle is next door to Japan raw material sources. They have enough fuel, and supply there. The ONLY Allied advantage is more transport ships.

quote:

my point is that the right way to handle this situation is not to throw everything into a Hail-Mary-counterattack. Especially not since the KB is more or less a one-shot weapon at this point in time.


Thats because you think, that THE ONLY way to resolve this situation is to throw KB into action. Nope, this is not counterattack we are talking about.

quote:

I compare the situation to give the readers a mental image of what the situation is like. But you are correct in that there is a huge difference between D-day and this battle. At D-day, Germany actually had fighters that could stand up to and go toe-to-toe with the allied airforce. Japan does not have that.


Its 9/43. TONY b/c just entered production. TOJO IIb, and GEORGE are in production for a while. And Japan can easily afford to get 1:2 exchange in fighters. Latest engagements are not showing any Allied fighters advantage, right?

quote:

It is most certainly not impossible to stop an invasion at the beach. There are countless of examples of invasion fleets slaughtered on the way to the invasion beach, or having the unloading disrupted by night surface action etc.


That is contrary to your earlier statement about D-Day. Germany had no air assets to attack invasion fleet, and their local sea-force were just some PT boats.

quote:

Allied fighters will operate at range 0, allied 4Es will operate inside normal range. And again you are basing your post on the assumption that allied CVs will leave the area.


Night naval bombardment can go with CVs still present. They already lost 1/3rd of fighters. Morale dropped sufficiently, so Japan can bombard base with enough escort. Japan can easily provide this escort, and enough bombers to close airfield 3 times in one turn.

quote:

That means you are basing your suggestions/ideas on the very shaky notion that when the KB arrives it will sail victorious from the carrier clash that presumably follows. This is late 43. Allied CVs have Hellcats. The writing is on the wall. A 1-1 exchange is something that Japan should be very happy to achieve.


I am afraid Japan have enough anti-ship planes, to get Allied CVs from land. KB is just needed to chase retreating ships. How many HELLCATs should be shot down, to try attack from ONE land base? Or 2? Or 5? Or 15?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tullius
Are the replacement rates for AC historically correct ? In the game the US forces become ca. 4000 Hellcats. But until 11/45 12,275 Hellcats were built. Even when you substract 2.000 planes for the British forces there is still a gap of 6000 planes. Alone in March 1945 606 Hellcat -5/-5N were delivered. That was also the peak. In the game the player will receive only 223.


I can see 7000-8000 different HELLCATs models, including NFs, and British version. Those not include planes which arrives onboard CVs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: janh
I read that the Japanese produced about 70,000 planes during WW2, while losses amounted to 40,000 (I believe it was a source cited in a wiki article). In AE they produce a lot less (by rough estimate), and if you look at the recent Stoneage-Spruance AAR, also the losses will consequently be a lot lower (even taking into account that "their war" was a year shorter). Maybe the above numbers were wrong by a factor >>2, but they sound not too unreasonable. Anyone having any idea where the discrepancy is coming from?


There are lot (and I mean LOT) of weird Kamikaze models arriving in 1945. They are not produced, but arrive with their squadrons. As you can see, also in this AAR, players are unwilling to fight long air wars for attrition, so the result is far smaller loses.

< Message edited by inqistor -- 2/15/2011 8:22:41 PM >

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 2072
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 8:13:11 PM   
pat.casey

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tullius

quote:

They are available from 4/43, at 130 per month.


Are the replacement rates for AC historically correct ? In the game the US forces become ca. 4000 Hellcats. But until 11/45 12,275 Hellcats were built. Even when you substract 2.000 planes for the British forces there is still a gap of 6000 planes. Alone in March 1945 606 Hellcat -5/-5N were delivered. That was also the peak. In the game the player will receive only 223.


I think the numbers are historically accurate in that the represent actual deliveries to the pacific theatre.
In a broader sense, however, they're not historically accurate because given different operational requirements and attrition rates, American industry was certainly capable of deploying *many* more aircraft into the pacific theatre.

Given an ahistorical war, I'd expect ahistorical aircraft deliveries to the pacific theatre.

The balancing challenge though is that the game rarely mirrors the historical war, while allied production is slaved to the historical schedule.

(in reply to Tullius)
Post #: 2073
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 8:15:15 PM   
Tullius

 

Posts: 1174
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Saxony (Germany)
Status: offline 		Some squadrons come later with Hellcats so that they can fill the gap. But i still think that there are not enough. When the japanese side can not produce the correct number of AC then the allied side should be proportional adjusted. It is perhaps worth to consider that after the introduction of a new model some planes are also placed immediately in the pool. In the game the first Hellcats are availabe at 4/43 (which is reasonable). The production started already in 10/1942. The first squadrons had Hellcats in January (but they were still USA) and the first combat with Hellcats was in summer.

_____________________________


(in reply to janh)
Post #: 2074
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 8:32:23 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB


I haven't spotted US CVEs yet Ken, no Wildcats on CAP and no ships spotted by recon nearby.
Another question is how many replacement Hellcats that are available to Allies in 09/43.



Plenty.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2075
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 8:38:45 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

... its late 43, not early 42.


Exactly. Allied divisions at this point are worth much more than IJ divisions. Go into Tracker and look at the anti-soft and anti-hard values of the squads.


Not to mention the massive artillery support that the average American 43 division has.

_____________________________

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2076
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 8:39:40 PM   
Tullius

 

Posts: 1174
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: Saxony (Germany)
Status: offline
quote:

Germany had no air assets to attack invasion fleet, and their local sea-force were just some PT boats.


BTW Germany had only 2 planes in the landing area. That was the complete Air Force.

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Post #: 2077
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 9:35:47 PM   
PsB


Posts: 7
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		There were so many titles I could think of for this post: JFB nightmare; decisive battle in technicolor; now i am literally crying; death from above, and below; restricted to mature audiences. I believe allied offensive potential, has ended this game. I think i will resign.

I will cover this action and its outcome in several posts, but here is the initial report everyone has been waiting for.

I have edited out lots of the CR. But there were critical portions I wanted to keep in to provide both you an myself with vital intelligence.

Contrary to expectations, the allies decided to press ahead with their invasion. They have landed six additional divisions and numerous supporting troops all over the islands! I was taken by complete surprise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack

Japanese Ships
SS I-22, hits 6

Allied Ships
CVE Breton
DE Rathburne

SS I-22 launches 8 torpedoes at CVE Breton

DARN MISSED!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack

Japanese Ships
SS I-26

Allied Ships
CVE Copahee
DE Rathburne

SS I-26 launches 6 torpedoes at CVE Copahee

MISSED AGAIN!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 18
A6M5 Zero x 45
A6M5b Zero x 12
B6N1 Jill x 17
B6N2 Jill x 22
D4Y1 Judy x 68

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
FM-1 Wildcat x 21
F4U-1 Corsair x 127
F4U-1A Corsair x 23
F6F-3 Hellcat x 173

Allied Ships
CL Denver
BB Indiana, Bomb hits 1
BB Washington
CV Bunker Hill, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Pago Pago
CV Essex, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Montpelier
BB Massachusetts, Bomb hits 1
BB North Carolina

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 52
A6M5c Zero x 7
B6N1 Jill x 21
B6N2 Jill x 53
B6N2a Jill x 13
D4Y1 Judy x 44

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 146

Allied Ships
CVE Corregidor
BB West Virginia
CVE Anzio
BB Maryland
CVE Santee
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 1
BB Colorado
CL Richmond
CLAA San Diego
AKA Jupiter
CLAA Atlanta
CVE Natoma Bay
CLAA Juneau
CL Detroit
CLAA San Juan

Allied Return Strike
this was coming from his carriers. They hit everything!, they have inflicted heavy damage on my fighters.

This strike is from the fleet carriers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 26
A6M5 Zero x 75
A6M5b Zero x 17
A6M5c Zero x 35
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 36

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 94
SBD-5 Dauntless x 144
TBF-1 Avenger x 154

Japanese Ships
I will post a screen shot of the damage later. At this point i think the entire force will sink.
CV Taiho, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CV Kasagi, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CV Ikoma, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CVL Chiyoda, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Chitose, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
CL Kitakami, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Fumizuki, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hatsukaze, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Kuroshio, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Makigumo, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Takanami, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Onami, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk


Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 14
A6M5 Zero x 86
A6M5b Zero x 12
A6M5c Zero x 24
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 14

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 6

Japanese Ships
CVL Chiyoda, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack
Weather in hex: Moderate rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 6
A6M5 Zero x 47
A6M5b Zero x 7
A6M5c Zero x 20
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 12

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho, heavy fires


Goodbye cripples
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack
Weather in hex: Partial cloud
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 10
D4Y3 Judy x 22

Allied Ships
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 1
CV Lexington
DD Beale
DD Bache
DD Charles Ausburne
DD Aulick

< Message edited by PsB -- 2/15/2011 9:47:13 PM >

_____________________________


"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room"
- Sir Winston Churchill

(in reply to Tullius)
Post #: 2078
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 9:44:30 PM   
Xxzard

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Near Ponape?

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Post #: 2079
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 9:48:23 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Who's the monkey that's impersonating me? PsB?
This is going on report wise cracker!


_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Xxzard)
Post #: 2080
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:04:37 PM   
Xxzard

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 9/28/2008
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		"I think I will resign." <------------------ Not a PzB statement!

_____________________________


(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2081
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:05:36 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Who's the monkey that's impersonating me? PsB?
This is going on report wise cracker!



I admit I was fooled!

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2082
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:08:10 PM   
AbeSimpson


Posts: 151
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline 		Me too!!

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2083
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:19:02 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		I've seen a lot of strange things on this forum but this is a first.
In fact it's quite serious to impersonate someone.
- Suggest everyone block and ignore this "PsB" until he's gone from the forum.

Great input guys, I appreciate all cons and pros poster; what good is a Cuba Crisis "yes team"
So many posts and so much more to report that I will get back to you later.

Right now the most pressing issue is to have fun and enjoy the battle; winning and outcome is actually not the most important thing here.
And...I will "NEVER SURRENDER OR RESIGN - even if the entire KB is lost

This was another interesting turn

Poor weather held back lots of our bombers and sweepers.
Instead Andy loaded up Waingapo with his best fighters; a bit surprised that it's open - airfield damage was way into the red when captured only last turn.
This means the fighters were transferred into a 65-85% damaged field.

So our fighters took a hit as they came in as escorts for various bombers.
Our achievements this turn was to moderately hurt a battleship, damage another, damage a destroyer plus sinking an AP.

I don't see any signs of a follow up invasion; looks like Andy is placing most eggs in Waingapor as troops continued to unload this turn.
The Allied carrier fleet moved a few hexes towards Timor.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 22, 43

Surface Combat

Day Time Surface Combat, near Lomblen at 68,113, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Shirakumo
DD Uruyuke

Allied Ships
xAP Rochambeau, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

I'm taking out all the Burma bombings..just in the way of the important stuff.
Andy is bombing wildly up there

Morning Air attack on Koepang , at 68,116
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 22
A6M5 Zero x 3
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
F4U-1 Corsair x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 39

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Koepang , at 68,116
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
A6M5 Zero x 6
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
Martlet IV x 6
P-38H Lightning x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet IV: 1 destroyed
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Koepang , at 68,116
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
A6M5 Zero x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x F6F-3 Hellcat sweeping at 13000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Moa at 72,119
Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Ammen, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Thatcher
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Koepang , at 68,116
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1

Allied aircraft
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Koepang , at 68,116
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
A6M5 Zero x 6
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
Martlet IV x 8
F6F-3 Hellcat x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Koepang , at 68,116
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 8

No Japanese losses
No Allied losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Waingapoe at 63,113
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 55
A6M3a Zero x 6
A6M5 Zero x 72
D4Y1 Judy x 29
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 32
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 47
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 4

Allied aircraft
Hurricane XIIb x 8
P-38F Lightning x 17
P-38H Lightning x 13
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 27
F4U-1 Corsair x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane XIIb: 1 destroyed
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Colorado, Bomb hits 4, on fire
xAK Clan Forbes, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
CL Concord
DE Sutlej

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 14 (2 destroyed, 12 disabled)

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Clan Forbes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Koepang , at 68,116
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-17F Fortress x 3
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 12
B-25D1 Mitchell x 3
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Waingapoe at 63,113
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
A6M3a Zero x 6
A6M5 Zero x 22
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 59
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 17
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 61
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 17
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 4
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 2
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 26

Allied aircraft
Hurricane XIIb x 5
P-38F Lightning x 15
P-38H Lightning x 11
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 25
F4U-1 Corsair x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Resolution, Bomb hits 4
BB Colorado, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
5 x Ki-43-IIb Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet
6 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 30000 feet
10 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo sweeping at 30000 feet
4 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo sweeping at 15000 feet
1 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 15000 feet
10 x Ki-43-IIb Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet
11 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo sweeping at 15000 feet
2 x Ki-45 KAIc Nick sweeping at 15000 feet
6 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 30000 feet
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 30000 feet
11 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 30000 feet
8 x Ki-45 KAIa Nick sweeping at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Andy is trying to build Lomblen; will have to take care of it asap.

Ground combat at Lomblen (68,113)
Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 95 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7
Defending force 1007 troops, 11 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 48

Japanese adjusted assault: 0
Allied adjusted defense: 31

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
40 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
4th Raiding Rgt /5

Defending units:
Americal Infantry Div /1
102nd Combat Engr Rgt /1
1st Australian Para Bn /2
810th EAB /1
872/873rd EAB /1
3rd USN Naval Const Rgt /1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fury in the SRA




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2084
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:22:57 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thunderbolt and Lightning, very very frightening...

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(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2085
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:31:33 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Indeed but it should be possible to suppress them; it's only a size 4 AF with lots of damage.
I'm sending Tony's and Tojo IIbs on sweep this turn - they should manage better odds.

Here's a "secret": The KB is moving into position but I'm holding it back for now as it hasn't been spotted by the enemy.
There are many things I wish to achieve and going toe on toe with the Allied carriers asap is not part of the plan.
- This is when the game of chess becomes interesting!

Strat map:






Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2086
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:32:29 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		this PSB guy fooled me too.:) damnd. i was shocked a little bit after i saw his fake posting the first time.

PZB:

you consider some high speed bombardement runs to p..whatever to close the AF there? or is it too risky because of allied capital ships and mines? i think he has only fighters on the island so your bombard TF should be safe from air attacks.

once you can close the AF you can keep it closed with minimum AC loses with so  many japanese bombers around.

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 2087
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:51:27 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		I thought it was John spoofing us, I didn't realize it was actually someone else. I knew it wasn't true just because John doesn't give up.

_____________________________


(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 2088
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/15/2011 10:52:42 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Well yes of course; a major bombardment of Darwin as well as Waingapo would be to my liking.
- A Darwin run would be difficult because the fleets would have to sail so far south that they're most likely spotted before bombarding.
- A Waingapo run could be sustained between Makassar and Soerabaja by 2 battleship squadrons.

Initiating these actions as long as the Allied carriers around is very risky but could be done.
The question is whether we should play the game of cat and mouse for a while instead and try to organize a surprise for Andy.

If the KB can manouver into position near Makassar it would be completely covered by LBA which could provide both extra CAP and escort fighters as well
as strike ac. Within a few days I will also be able to increase air support and the number of LBA in the region.

As many have stated; it would be foolish to burn the KB for nothing and I agree.
We need to act cleverly and with patience if required.

Organizing fast bombardment runs from Makassar under heavy LBA cover may be one of the better approaches.
Close down Waingapo and the balance of power will swiftly change to our advantage.
- I also doubt Waingapo has the capacity to operate a large force of Allied strike ac. This would deplete CAP to much.

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 2089
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 9:34:46 AM   
janh

 

Posts: 1216
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
...
Initiating these (BB) actions as long as the Allied carriers around is very risky but could be done.
The question is whether we should play the game of cat and mouse for a while instead and try to organize a surprise for Andy.

If the KB can manouver into position near Makassar it would be completely covered by LBA which could provide both extra CAP and escort fighters as well as strike ac. Within a few days I will also be able to increase air support and the number of LBA in the region.

As many have stated; it would be foolish to burn the KB for nothing and I agree. We need to act cleverly and with patience if required.

Organizing fast bombardment runs from Makassar under heavy LBA cover may be one of the better approaches.
Close down Waingapo and the balance of power will swiftly change to our advantage.
- I also doubt Waingapo has the capacity to operate a large force of Allied strike ac. This would deplete CAP to much.



Damn, that PsB guy got me really wondering. He didn't highlight nicely, so something besides only the tone was off... Strange behaviors this internet age spawns.

I would agree that BB runs in the face of the enemy CV are very risky, and maybe not worth it. Especially as long as his landing fleets with battle-wagons remain parked there as well. His CV can't stay forever -- I guess! The BB definitely should wait until covered by LBA.

They could, however, also be a nice bait in case you could get KB undetected into position to strike his CVs in the same turn. Yet Andy must have covered the whole area with recon by now -- can you tell from plane sightings how good his coverage might be? Also, he might use his landing force as his bait -- and hope for your strikes to divert to lower priority targets.

Seems Andy really means business this time. Efate, Burma, Northern OZ and SRA almost simultaneously. He puts the pressure on in a more concerted effort now. Hopefully this won't wear you down in all theaters, Andy might be hoping that weaknesses would expose themselves... Or he might have some more stuff already in the making. The missing CVE, and the sustained bombing campaign in Burma are suspicious.



(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2090
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 10:01:29 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor
It is 9/43. Actually THE ONLY tough bomber currently is B17. B29 are still not in production. They will be at 4/44.

No, this is AE, all the US 4Es are tough enough to go in unescorted against any CAP. So not just the B17s but the B24s aswell.

quote:

Decided in what way? Japan will suddenly lose all bases around Timor? In two weeks? Or maybe it will lose all planes, and will be unable to replace them? Battle is next door to Japan raw material sources. They have enough fuel, and supply there. The ONLY Allied advantage is more transport ships.

Decided in the meaning "pointless to try to recapture or close down the allied bases". Meaning that the Jap positions in Timor are now more of a liability for Japan than an asset. The entire sea-area between Timor and Celebes will soon be a no-go-zone for japanese shipping. Sooner or later, the sea-area between Ambon and Timor will be closed aswell. What then of Timor? What good are the troops there or the bases there? This battle has redrawn the map for the Japanese ability to defend the lower NEI. The defensive line now must be moved to Java/Borneo/Celebes/Ambon, because the Timor line has just been penetrated.

There is a small window of time right now when the allies try to consolidate and reinforce the captured holdings. What is a long-term better strategy right now? Pull out from bases in risk of being isolated to rebuild a new defensive line, or use all strategic assets to try to recapture the lost base(s)? The choise is PzBs, but usually it is not a good strategy to reinforce defeat.

quote:


Its 9/43. TONY b/c just entered production. TOJO IIb, and GEORGE are in production for a while. And Japan can easily afford to get 1:2 exchange in fighters. Latest engagements are not showing any Allied fighters advantage, right?

Yes, it is 9/43, and neither the Tony, Tojo or George are a match for P47s. That is a massive difference from what the Germans fielded against the allies.

quote:

That is contrary to your earlier statement about D-Day. Germany had no air assets to attack invasion fleet, and their local sea-force were just some PT boats.

Im sure you understand that my point was that the invasion had to be defeated before the base was captured.

quote:

Night naval bombardment can go with CVs still present. They already lost 1/3rd of fighters. Morale dropped sufficiently, so Japan can bombard base with enough escort. Japan can easily provide this escort, and enough bombers to close airfield 3 times in one turn.

Have you actually played this game at all? Sending in night naval bombardment missions against bases defended by surface forces when CVs are present is very close to suicide.

quote:

I am afraid Japan have enough anti-ship planes, to get Allied CVs from land. KB is just needed to chase retreating ships. How many HELLCATs should be shot down, to try attack from ONE land base? Or 2? Or 5? Or 15?

Yes, and Im assuming that all the Betties on the map have been flown into position in the Celebes etc. That is the only potent weapon Japan has right now together with the KB and the battle-line of the combined fleet. The Betties and the KB are one-shot weapons though. Once those pilots are gone, they are gone forever. Same for the carriers. And my point is that instead of risking these weapons in a desperate Hail-Mary counterattack right now, they should be prepared to attack the next amphib-leap from the allies. The Timor-line is gone and now Japan has to deal with that situation.

The base-rich area of the lower NEI is a very challenging area of operations, and there are lots and lots of possibilities to set up ambushes for a careless allied player. The fight must be defensive though, and not offensive. And that is why any attempt to reinforce or recapture the lost bases are errors on a strategic scale.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 2091
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 11:45:17 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Actually, there's no pressure in Burma and South Pacific - just lots of bombs raining down on the jungle in the former....
We have stalled the Allied offensives in Central Pacific and Burma and now Andy is throwing the dice on getting a breakthrough in the DEI.

PzjH; I see what you say but have a few comments and questions towards the logic.

There are hundreds of islands in the Pacific and it is _impossible_ to prevent the Allies from landing with superior force on any given island.
- If we do as you propose and withdraw from conflict in these sectors the foothold will soon grow from local to regional, allowing the Allies to quickly jump to another island dominated by their LBA.

This procedure can be followed all the way from the DEI to Japan.
So when will you then stand and fight?

Waingapo is the first base in the SRA Defensive Sector that has been invaded by the Allies.
If we pack up and run the entire area will be compromised.

My preferred approach is therefore to challenge Andy's occuptation of Waingapo by suppressing it and attempting to drive his sea and air forces out of the area
with our network of mutually supporting bases. Whether we will actually succeed in recapturing it I can't say but I know we can isolate it if we can prevent a further Allied expansion in the region. - Even if we only can achieve this for a limited period of time we will have done our job by delaying the Allied advance and giving ourselves time to build more fortificatinos and bases in the next defensive lines. Over the next 3-4 months quite a large number of Jap LCUs arrive - the prepared bases and fortifications are only waiting for them.

Also; I have seen the next combat replay. Our Tonys and Tojo IIbs performed admirably and shot down more than 30 T-bolts and Corsairs.
Sweeping with out best units can still seriously hurt the Allies and this is how Waingapo's fighter defenses will be culled.

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 2092
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 12:15:40 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
PzjH; I see what you say but have a few comments and questions towards the logic.

There are hundreds of islands in the Pacific and it is _impossible_ to prevent the Allies from landing with superior force on any given island.
- If we do as you propose and withdraw from conflict in these sectors the foothold will soon grow from local to regional, allowing the Allies to quickly jump to another island dominated by their LBA.

This procedure can be followed all the way from the DEI to Japan.
So when will you then stand and fight?



There are hundreds of islands, that is true, but there is only one region that is crucial for the defence of Japan and that is the area between Darwin and Java/Celebes/Ambin. As you say, any foothold by the allies will soon grow from local to regional, and the island jumping campaign have begun. I am afraid there is no possible way to change that fact now, the game has gone from all-around-perimeter defence to island hopping in the NEI-defence.

You had a bit of bad luck in this battle, because your forces were desperately out of position when he attacked. If the KB had come rushing in when the amphibs were at sea or the landing was still ongoing or at least when the base was still contested, things would be different, but now your forces arrived after the fact. That means you will not be fighting a defensive battle if you try to recapture the base, you will be conducting an offensive operation, against a (presumably) heavily fortified allied base within allied aircover. That is not a winning strategy for Japan in late 43. Your strengths are many, but all your strenghts right now rest on the idea that he must take the fight to you. He must invade your fortified bases. The major strength you have righ now is that all his offensive operations must be covered by forces large enough to withstand a counterattack by the KB and the battleships of the Combined Fleet. That limits his operations enormously. If the KB is taken out of the equation, his offensive capability grows exponentially. Bla bla, you know this already.

quote:


Waingapo is the first base in the SRA Defensive Sector that has been invaded by the Allies.
If we pack up and run the entire area will be compromised.

The entire area is already compromised. What is left to decide is what sort of damage you can inflict on him and how much casualties you will pay in the process of doing that. My point is that you will not be able to close down the base or recapture the island, so do not risk your strategic assets reinforcing a lost battle. There are several more invasions he will have to do, and there will be plenty of more and better opportunities for you to throw the KB into harms way.

quote:


My preferred approach is therefore to challenge Andy's occuptation of Waingapo by suppressing it and attempting to drive his sea and air forces out of the area
with our network of mutually supporting bases. Whether we will actually succeed in recapturing it I can't say but I know we can isolate it if we can prevent a further Allied expansion in the region. - Even if we only can achieve this for a limited period of time we will have done our job by delaying the Allied advance and giving ourselves time to build more fortificatinos and bases in the next defensive lines. Over the next 3-4 months quite a large number of Jap LCUs arrive - the prepared bases and fortifications are only waiting for them.

Yes, by all means, delay him. Throw your airforce at him, make him escort his convoys, but do not put your strategic assets in jeopardy. Use land based air, use subs, use cruisers and destroyers. But do not use the KB, the BBs or your Betties.

Im not saying you should not oppose him or force him to pay for that base, Im saying it is too late to prevent him from gaining a foothold in the SRA now, and you should not expend your strategic assets in an attempt to eject him. Like I said before, you must not base your defensive strategy on the hope of a huge CV clash where you sink his CVs while retain yours.

quote:


Also; I have seen the next combat replay. Our Tonys and Tojo IIbs performed admirably and shot down more than 30 T-bolts and Corsairs.
Sweeping with out best units can still seriously hurt the Allies and this is how Waingapo's fighter defenses will be culled.

Absolutely. Keep up the pressure like that. But you are fighting over his base, meaning he will keep most of his pilots, while you will lose most of yours. You will lose to ops while he wont. You will be fighting on his terms over his base. You cannot win a battle of attrition against the allies like that. It is important to remember that.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2093
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 12:24:00 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I haven´t taken a single island back in the Central Pacific in my PBEM and am sitting next to the Philipinese in may 44. All of Borneo´s oil is lost for the Japanese and Palembang has long been in B-29 range, the only thing that keeps me from bombing the refineries there is my hr of no strategic bombing of any Japanese occupied Allied territory. Otherwise the Japanese would be down to no oil from the SRA at all already with Java´s and Borneo´s refeneries being bombed months ago.

All that counts is the SRA and that´s what I was aiming at right from the start and what delayed me the most was me being unable to take Darwin for a couple of months. Then the Allied machine started to roll and having everything in one basket makes it pretty much impossible for the Japanese to achieve their decisive victory, no matter who´s in command or what he does (except some flawed tactics trying to screw one of the routines).

I first thought Andy would miss the point while fighting for completely unimportant little islands in the Pacific but then suddenly his armada showed up next to the real important targets. If he hasn´t screwed up his planning, I can´t see what really can be done as I know what I had available for my drive from Darwin to the Philipinese at the same timeframe. The Allied can drop a couple of THOUSAND engineers at any given place if they want to, lots of flak (as we know Andy thinks different about what is "a lot" than I do) and other stuff, so no Japanese player would be able to suppress such bases as the Japanese just lack hundreds of 4Es and even if they would have them, with 800 eng + 200 eng vehicles at a base, guess how long it takes to repair any damage. I´m pumping level 9 airfields out of the jungle in just a couple of weeks as if I would use tactical nukes to clear the jungle.

I´m a big fan of you as the Japanese commander and Andy always has been the "right" opponent for you but in this case I fear it won´t be a matter of Japanese brilliancy but only a matter of Allied screw ups. And even then, it is going to be hard to expect something like decisive blows against the enemy while not suffering hard yourselve. My Corsairs and Thunderbolts have shot down Franks, Georges and Jacks over my own bases at rates up to 30:1 while both sides employed highly skilled pilots but with radar and the dive loops you can soon end up throwing away a hundred highly skilled pilots in one day when you think it would be a good idea to send a hundred fighters on a sweep and then you find out they come in in four waves and all are being dived by 50-100 enemy fighters. In my PBEM my Japanese enemy hasn´t lost a single carrier engagement, but lost more carriers in total due to subs, carrier clashes and LBA and while he still has a potent KB going toe by toe with my carrier force would need the luck to score the mega jackpot. Only knowing that the enemy has got it keeps me moving forward in an organized way using the hammer all the time. As long as I´m using the hammer, the odds are clearly on my side. Andy nearly is at that stage too already, so it all depends on how he´s going forward.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 2/16/2011 12:28:27 PM >

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Post #: 2094
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 12:57:36 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Appreciate your insights!

Yes, our navy was not in a position to intercept the invasion - but would I really have wanted to sling the KB against the full force of the Allied carriers and invasion force?
This would not be good... And in the future any Allied invasion will take place within days of being spotted; having a full reaction force available in such short notice is not possible.
- The reason we were "late" this time was that I awaited the arrival of our new carriers for Japan, wouldn't like to go to the party without 1/3 of our force.

I know Japan can't win a war of attrition at this time, but we can inflict heavy attrition on the Allies - slowing them down, substantially if possible
We just have to inflict more casualties than we loose; In the Waingapo campaign we've only lost a Furutaka class CA and a few smaller ships.
Last turn the BB Colorado was also reported sunk by a sub (didn't show up in combat replay but I didn't hit it with torpedoes before which was the weapons credited with sinking it).
So 2 Allied BBs, 1 CA and numerous transports and smaller ships have already been sunk plus many more damaged.

Recon indicates enemy warships at Pearl Harbour so I don't think Andy has sent his kitchen sink; most of the US warships are now tied up as carrier escorts.
Therefore sending in the entire Combined Fleet against the Allied "local" fleet near Waingapu may be the best opportunity we will get to fight a battle on even or better terms.
- I know that terms will not be anywhere even in mid 44....

Some intel: I'm holding most of my Betties and Netties back - the idea is to release them only in concert with KB or to save them for less well defended targets.
If I want to close Waingapu I can only achieve this with heavy BB bombardments shuttling from Soerabaja.
- Useless to send Helen's to suppress a rough jungle hex with hundreds of Allied engineers.

Right now I'm watching whether Andy will retire his carriers; he was upset about a "Do not retire" order last turn - that's probably the invasion force that was hit by our
LBA last turn. This turn both this TF and the carriers headed south and were exposed to several LBA attacks, one including 200 fighters that easily penetrated the CAP (of course the bombers stayed home and flew in smaller packets in the PM phase...).

Until I know what's happening I will prefer to sweep the enemy fighters at Waingapo than to let them sweep our bases; losses are much heavier for the poor ba$tard being swept

If the Allied carriers withdraw we can bombard and suppress Waingapu, forcing Andy to bring his CV's back.
But when he comes back we will have a lot more air support and LBA in place and in order to reinforce his invasion or relieve Waingapo he will have to face our combined force prepared.

I'm also going to land 3-4 divisions on the northern tip of Waingapo; this will efficiently black an Allied advance and force a prolonged battle.
So bear with me while I try to turn this situation into a positive experience for the JFBs
- I will do my best not to loose more than we can afford

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 2095
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 1:05:49 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I'll just add this comment in passing as you may already know about it. You can click on an existing LCU and under the Unit Organization if there are future reinforcements that all parts belong to, you can start prepping the future reinforcements for it. Click on the future reinforcement and change what it is prepping for. It may help your in-depth planning.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 2096
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 1:48:36 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		japanese victory or not...i think we can expect some very entertaining and intresting turns. go faster andy/PzB.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 2097
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 4:36:30 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline 		I have a great appreciation and admiration for you abilities in this game. I 100% agree with you and disagree with your detractors regarding the conduct of this battle. Why refuse battle now when you know the Allied forces are only getting stronger every day? This will likely turn into a Guadalcanal situation where Allied material superiority will ultimately win the day, but every day you hold Andy here is another day he is not advancing through the SRA. The only danger I see is developing tunnel vision where your fixation on a single point of the map opens your flanks to a lightning strike by your opponent.

I do have one qualm:

quote:

I'm also going to land 3-4 divisions on the northern tip of Waingapo; this will efficiently black an Allied advance and force a prolonged battle.


To what end? Do you expect to fully expel the Allies from the island with this force? How are you going to keep three full divisions supplied? How will you extract them if/when the time comes? I just ask because putting that much force in one location without a modicum of a chance for success seems potentially wasteful at this point in the game.

quote:

So bear with me while I try to turn this situation into a positive experience for the JFBs - I will do my best not to loose more than we can afford


Oh, I have no doubt about that.



_____________________________

"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2098
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 5:45:01 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

I have a great appreciation and admiration for you abilities in this game. I 100% agree with you and disagree with your detractors regarding the conduct of this battle. Why refuse battle now when you know the Allied forces are only getting stronger every day? This will likely turn into a Guadalcanal situation where Allied material superiority will ultimately win the day, but every day you hold Andy here is another day he is not advancing through the SRA. The only danger I see is developing tunnel vision where your fixation on a single point of the map opens your flanks to a lightning strike by your opponent.

I do have one qualm:

quote:

I'm also going to land 3-4 divisions on the northern tip of Waingapo; this will efficiently black an Allied advance and force a prolonged battle.


To what end? Do you expect to fully expel the Allies from the island with this force? How are you going to keep three full divisions supplied? How will you extract them if/when the time comes? I just ask because putting that much force in one location without a modicum of a chance for success seems potentially wasteful at this point in the game.

quote:

So bear with me while I try to turn this situation into a positive experience for the JFBs - I will do my best not to loose more than we can afford


Oh, I have no doubt about that.





I am an AFB but enjoy reading your AAR. It actually helps me in my planning and gives me a chance to learn from the mistakes of others. I actually think you are doing the right thing. What better time to fight than now? The Allies only get stronger very fast from now on. After a certain point, the Japanese player is not playing for victory but fighting for time and space. I think a landing at Waingapo is not a bad idea. You may in the end lose but if you buy 3-4 months more time then it is worth the loss of the troops. This may really be your last opportunity to fight the Allies on even terms or better. Why not?

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 2099
RE: Enemy carriers near SRA! - 2/16/2011 8:18:45 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		That's great info NY59!
- Didn't know that...

Thx for the support guys!
I can promise nothing but blood, sweat and tears

In a way I feel an aggrssive defense is best suited to Japanese mentality.
Not sure I would be very good at sitting back waiting for Andy to hit a sharp brick

Well, I don't consider it impossible to wipe out the enemy force at Waingapoe; what I would like is to send in enough troops
to prevent Andy from defeating them. If we over time can isolate the place and reduce supplies it _may_ be possible to wipe them out.

Another intense turn; takes a long time to complete these mega turns!

Good this turn:
Great sweep results
Removed a PT boat squadron
Inflicted heavy losses on crack enemy fighters

Not so good this turn:
Our main strike against enemy carrier fleet got through the enemy CAP...but only 8 bombers followed the 220 fighters.
The rest of the bombers sat home or came out in dribs and drabs during the PM phase and got slaughtered.

I'm now curious if Andy will hang around much longer; he has now witnessed how potentially vulnerable his fleets are.
- I'm still working overtime to get 500 more air support into the area.

I'm not touching Burma and Cent Pac air fleets; Solomons and New Guinea area units are being drawn in but leaving 150 fighters at Rabaul.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 23, 43

Sub Attacks

The sub should make it...lucky!

ASW attack near Sawoe-eilanden at 65,115

Japanese Ships
SS I-19, hits 19, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Detroit
CL Durban
DD Bancroft
DD Lawrence
DD Cummings
DD Henley

SS I-19 is sighted by escort
I-19 bottoming out ....
DD Lawrence attacking submerged sub ....
DD Lawrence cannot reach attack position over SS I-19
DD Cummings attacking submerged sub ....
DD Henley fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Lawrence fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Cummings attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-19 eludes ASW attack from DD Cummings
DD Henley fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Cummings fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cummings attacking submerged sub ....
DD Cummings cannot establish contact with SS I-19
DD Cummings fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cummings fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surface Combat

Ah, Wunderbar - nuked moored PT boats

Night Time Surface Combat, near Waingapoe at 63,113, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Shinonome
DD Shirakumo
DD Yugiri
DD Harukaze
E Hasu
DD Uruyuke

Allied Ships
PT-111, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
PT-228, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT-229, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-230, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-231, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-232, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
PT-233, Shell hits 7, and is sunk

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 32% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Allied ships attempt to get underway
PT-233 sunk by DD Uruyuke at 2,000 yards
PT-229 sunk by DD Uruyuke at 2,000 yards
DD Uruyuke engages PT-228 at 2,000 yards
DD Uruyuke engages PT-111 at 2,000 yards
PT-232 sunk by DD Uruyuke at 2,000 yards
PT-228 sunk by DD Uruyuke at 2,000 yards
PT-111 sunk by DD Uruyuke at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
DD Harukaze engages PT-231 at 5,000 yards
PT-231 sunk by DD Shirakumo at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
PT-230 sunk by DD Yugiri at 7,000 yards
Task forces break off...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Notice the great sweep results agains the best Allied ac over Waingapoe!

Morning Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 32

Allied aircraft
Hurricane XIIb x 4
P-38F Lightning x 11
P-38H Lightning x 8
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 44
F4U-1 Corsair x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-Ib Tony: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane XIIb: 2 destroyed
P-38F Lightning: 3 destroyed
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 4 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 31,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 19

Allied aircraft
Hurricane XIIb x 1
P-38F Lightning x 4
P-38H Lightning x 7
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 39
F4U-1 Corsair x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane XIIb: 1 destroyed
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Sawoe-eilanden at 64,115
Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 52 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
A6M3a Zero x 7
A6M5 Zero x 25
D4Y1 Judy x 9
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 63
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 17
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 51
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 4

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 9
Martlet II x 20
Martlet IV x 29
P-38F Lightning x 4
P-38H Lightning x 7
F4U-1 Corsair x 2
F6F-3 Hellcat x 222
SOC-1 Seagull x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 6 destroyed
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet IV: 1 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Endeh , at 65,113
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
A6M3a Zero x 3
A6M5 Zero x 2
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 2
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 8
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 2
Ki-61-Ib Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
Martlet IV x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 77
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 123
SBD-3 Dauntless x 44
SBD-5 Dauntless x 66
TBF-1 Avenger x 159

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 damaged
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 1 damaged
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 6 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 56
Airbase supply hits 11
Runway hits 141
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Horn Island at 91,128
Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCVP 532J, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 532G, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 532K, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 532L, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 532M, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 532F, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 532H, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

532J dead in the water ...
532G dead in the water ...
532K dead in the water ...
532L dead in the water ...
532M dead in the water ...
532F dead in the water ...
532H dead in the water ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Waingapoe , at 63,113
Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 22

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 5 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sawoe-eilanden at 64,115
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 30,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 6

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 8
Martlet II x 20
Martlet IV x 29
F4U-1 Corsair x 3
F6F-3 Hellcat x 211

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sawoe-eilanden at 64,115
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 52 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 16
D4Y1 Judy x 19

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 8
Martlet II x 19
Martlet IV x 27
F4U-1 Corsair x 3
F6F-3 Hellcat x 200

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sawoe-eilanden at 64,115
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 60 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
A6M5 Zero x 3
G3M3 Nell x 10

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 7
Martlet II x 12
Martlet IV x 21
F4U-1 Corsair x 3
F6F-3 Hellcat x 171

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
G3M3 Nell: 7 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Sawoe-eilanden at 64,115
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 25
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 2
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 13

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 5
Martlet II x 10
Martlet IV x 17
F4U-1 Corsair x 2
F6F-3 Hellcat x 144

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 10 destroyed
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 9 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Endeh , at 65,113
Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
A6M3a Zero x 3
A6M5 Zero x 2
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 2
Ki-45 KAIc Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
F6F-3 Hellcat x 112
TBF-1 Avenger x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed on ground
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 2 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 4 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-61-Ib Tony: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Makassar at 65,106
Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 47 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 6
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 4

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 5 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba
xAP Tsingtao Maru
CA Atago
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Everything was wrong with this enemy attack on Derby...we have also cut of the enemy forces as a tank regiment
has moved in behind them.

Ground combat at Derby (64,127)
Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3795 troops, 16 guns, 431 vehicles, Assault Value = 246
Defending force 1474 troops, 21 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 58

Allied adjusted assault: 61
Japanese adjusted defense: 53

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 3)
Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), op mode(-), leaders(+), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: op mode(-), shock(+), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
100 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
4th Armoured Brigade
10th Light Horse Battalion

Defending units:
II./4th Infantry Battalion
12th Garrison Unit /1
21st JAAF AF Bn /1
-------------------------------------------------------------

Heavy Air Combat




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 2100
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