Who was the Moron?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Tech Support >> Who was the Moron?

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Who was the Moron? - 2/12/2011 7:37:40 PM

bevans

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

Who was the moron that decided that most of the stuff you needed to do to mod/create a scenario would be done in the generic data? An incomprehensible decision but would have been OK if WitE had not been so flawed on release. Every patch seems to rewrite the generic data, destroying any modding that one might have done. Stands to reason though, given the arrogance of the development team (most of the editor 'manual' is a diatribe against anyone who would dare tinker with the game). So given that there is no chance that the developers will ever give us a reasonable editor where scenario changes would actually be contained in the scenario files, is 1.03 beta 4 actually a reasonable game now or should I just go away for a year or two so that the developers can get their act together? And yes, I know that the Fanboys will vote for me to go away. But I played the boardgame (actually living room floor game) as a grad student in the '70s and WiR in the early '90s so I was really looking forward to this game, which I believe has real potential. Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy.

Post #: 1

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/12/2011 7:40:20 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

Good way to get what you want, insulting the people who can change things.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to bevans)

Post #: 2

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/12/2011 8:39:05 PM

Mehring

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

Bevans, don't you think this a few steps forward from SPI WitE and WiE? Compared to some of the games that reach the market, and I speak with considerable experience of exasperation, this is actually quite good. For all its faults, this game was playable on release. It's got better since and will doubtless improve further.

Yes, there are plenty of design flaws and things that would have been done better differently. Some of these will never be put right. But do you really want to be pushing those generic 6-5s and 1-4s over your front room? You know Descision Games has re-released WiE with a few improvements? I'll flog you my copy if you like.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 3

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 12:06:14 AM

Oleg Mastruko

Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bevans
should I just go away for a year or two

Sounds like a good idea....

(in reply to bevans)

Post #: 4

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 12:19:55 AM

Great_Ajax

Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline

Uh. I like the way it is. Every time there is an official update to a leader, piece of equipment, or OB, I don't have to edit 8+ scenarios to reflect each change in the scenario data and risk desynchronizing the data. It cuts down on a hell of a lot of work to keep everything consistent. If we didn't do it this way, everytime a minor update came out, each scenario designer would have to go in and edit all of the data that changed himself.

Trey

_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)

Post #: 5

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 1:41:06 AM

PeeDeeAitch

Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline

I am a moron, but I am not the moron.

Just for the record.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Great_Ajax)

Post #: 6

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 2:36:20 AM

JAMiAM

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

I am a moron, but I am not�the moron.

That's similar to what I have to tell some of my customers.

The customer may always be right, but you are only a customer...

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)

Post #: 7

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 3:01:48 AM

colberki

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline

1.03 beta 4 made a great game closer to perfection! No compliants here!

But I admit I will enjoy a new 41 game without the TOE bug which frankly I had not noticed the first time around. Duh

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 8

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 3:03:10 AM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bevans

Who was the moron that decided that most of the stuff you needed to do to mod/create a scenario would be done in the generic data? An incomprehensible decision but would have been OK if WitE had not been so flawed on release. Every patch seems to rewrite the generic data, destroying any modding that one might have done. Stands to reason though, given the arrogance of the development team (most of the editor 'manual' is a diatribe against anyone who would dare tinker with the game). So given that there is no chance that the developers will ever give us a reasonable editor where scenario changes would actually be contained in the scenario files, is 1.03 beta 4 actually a reasonable game now or should I just go away for a year or two so that the developers can get their act together? And yes, I know that the Fanboys will vote for me to go away. But I played the boardgame (actually living room floor game) as a grad student in the '70s and WiR in the early '90s so I was really looking forward to this game, which I believe has real potential. Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy.

(in reply to bevans)

Post #: 9

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 4:34:55 AM

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bevans
Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy.

ROFL!

_____________________________

"Lose" is the opposite of "win." "Loose" is the opposite of "tight."

Friends Don't Let Friends Facebook.

Twitter is for... (wait for it!) ...Twits!

(in reply to bevans)

Post #: 10

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 9:32:32 AM

Mehring

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

Can you not use a mod installer like JoneSoft? I guess you have to make the mod in some format the installer understands, but if you do that, all your work is saved. Think through problems before whinging?

(in reply to E)

Post #: 11

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 3:05:20 PM

Helpless

Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline

We plan to allow higher flexibility in mod making, i.e. locked generic data in scenario, ability to use mod folders for the arts and generic data, ability to switch on/off hardcoded functions, etc. But due to the limited programming resources the more emphasis is put on general game stability and balance first.

Anyway, current editor is not something which cannot be used. We had quite a few guys who were able to create new or contribute by manipulating existing scenarios.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Mehring)

Post #: 12

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 4:35:23 PM

Great_Ajax

Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline

Just to back up Helpless here. During the Christmas break, I made two scenarios from scratch that are currently in testing. Every conceivable unit that fought on the Eastern Front is in the database and if we missed one, we will add it as long as there are references to back it up. The editor is quite usable and if you run into problems, just post them up in the editing forum and we will answer them.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

We plan to allow higher flexibility in mod making, i.e. locked generic data in scenario, ability to use mod folders for the arts and generic data, ability to switch on/off hardcoded functions, etc. But due to the limited programming resources the more emphasis is put on general game stability and balance first.

Anyway, current editor is not something which cannot be used. We had quite a few guys who were able to create new or contribute by manipulating existing scenarios.

_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Helpless)

Post #: 13

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 4:54:27 PM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance?

(in reply to Great_Ajax)

Post #: 14

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 5:32:21 PM

Great_Ajax

Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline

Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about setting VP locations?

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance?�

_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 15

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 8:28:38 PM

Senno

Posts: 489
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: E

quote:

ORIGINAL: bevans
Just can't figure out why the developers are making it so difficult for me, at least, to enjoy.

ROFL!

Agreed.

(in reply to E)

Post #: 16

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 9:58:50 PM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about setting VP locations?

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance?�

No. When you edit the script for unit moves.

The bar shows:

1 = cheat
2 = Move deliberate
3 = move deliberate stack
4 = move hasty
5 = move hasty stack

When you enter the actual number, the result is:

1 = cheat
2 = move
3 = move deliberate
4 = move deliberate stack
5 = move hasty

Entering 6 does nothing, so move hasty stack is not an option to enter into a script.

Also curious what "cheat" is as well.

In addition, I don't see a transfer command and also wondering what the command is for "move towards" and what it means.

Thanks!

< Message edited by Klydon -- 2/13/2011 10:00:28 PM >

(in reply to Great_Ajax)

Post #: 17

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 10:34:53 PM

Great_Ajax

Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline

If you are doing a first turn script, the easiest way to do it is to play the first turn of your scenario and end turn. The game always saves your turn as a script file. Exit your game, open up your scenario in the editor and go to the MAIN tab. Click on LOAD RECORDED SCRIPT and it will load your first turn moves that you just played. Save the scenario and you're good to go. Doing scripts really only works on the first turn though.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about setting VP locations?

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Last I checked on the script side of the house, there was a bug that did not allow one of the settings available (think it was #6, which can't be entered from the keyboard at this point). Has anything been done with this by chance?�

No. When you edit the script for unit moves.

The bar shows:

1 = cheat
2 = Move deliberate
3 = move deliberate stack
4 = move hasty
5 = move hasty stack

When you enter the actual number, the result is:

1 = cheat
2 = move
3 = move deliberate
4 = move deliberate stack
5 = move hasty

Entering 6 does nothing, so move hasty stack is not an option to enter into a script.

Also curious what "cheat" is as well.

In addition, I don't see a transfer command and also wondering what the command is for "move towards" and what it means.

Thanks!

_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 18

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/13/2011 10:47:37 PM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline

Excellent. Thanks for the info on that.

(in reply to Great_Ajax)

Post #: 19

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/14/2011 4:30:32 AM

bevans

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline

I like the editor, I have spent hours with it modding the '41 GC. The annoying bit is that the patches overwrite my mod. I don't hear anyone saying that the game didn't need to be patched - or will be needing more patches. The game is good, it could be great, which will need those patches and/or mods to achieve. So I patched yesterday and am still regenerating the mod. If there is a mod management tool out there, I was not aware of it but will certainly look. And I still don't believe that it is so unreasonable to be able to save the stuff you change in the Scenario files with the editor. I mean, you can save some of it, just not some of the stuff you change in the Generic files.

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 20

RE: Who was the Moron? - 2/17/2011 3:57:44 AM

Duality

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/7/2008
Status: offline

I'm not sure if I'm a fanboy, but I vote that you go away. Its one thing to bring up constructive criticism, but that wasn't even close.

(in reply to bevans)

Post #: 21