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RE: Game theory and the Stasi - 2/16/2011 1:54:46 AM   
Moondawggie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

2nd Div embarking at Aden.

Support Units of 6th and 7th Aus Div have just left DG escorted by the might of the Royal Navy:








Hmmm: Guns, 20000+. ASW, 8.

Hope there aren't any of these pesky I- or RO- boats anywhere near your transit path...

_____________________________

"The Yankees got all the smart ones, and look where it got them."

General George Pickett, the night before Gettysburg

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 3961
Mr. Shokaku meet Calamity Jane - 2/16/2011 7:35:33 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		*****************July 20, 1942**************


South Pacific: Remember how I said there were two reported CV's in harbor at Noumea? Well, there really WERE two CV's in harbor at Noumea. Not only were there two CV's in harbor, but Calamity Jane of 98th BS(H) dropped a 500 lb general purpose egg on Shokaku. Kirishima and an escort vessel were also hit. 19 Oscars and 1 Tojo came up to meet the 22 B-17's in the raid. No 17's were lost. Most likely the Japs will move some fighters from Tanna to cover. Even so, it might be worth going back again. They may also try to get the CV's out but the USN will be infesting the area with subs. The Jap crusiers are about 280 miles off Nadi to the West. Not sure what they are doing. The USN transports retired safely to the East.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 2/16/2011 7:36:15 PM >

(in reply to Moondawggie)
Post #: 3962
Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 3:47:32 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		*********SE Tanna Is., July 20, 1942(c)***********

There is a feast in progress. The main dish is a giant bust of Ensign McGoo made of roasted Spam. All of his right shoulder and most of his face has been sliced off and is being enjoyed by all. There is a large banner in English that reads, "Tannanese 1st Light Infantry/ Sasebo 2nd Naval Guard July Mixer". A fearsome looking Sergeant of the Tannanese 1st Light Infantry with his stripes tattood onto his bare shoulders stands to address the group.


Sergeant of the Tannanese 1st Light Infantry with his stripes tattood onto his bare shoulders: Tanna men welcome Japan men. We friends now. Everyone enjoy Spam?

All: <contented grunt of approval>


Sergeant of the Tannanese 1st Light Infantry with his stripes tattood onto his bare shoulders: Good. Here why we have feast. <he pauses briefly to honor the cook with two quick toots of flatulence and a loud belch. This is quickly echoed by the other Tannanese in a call and response fashion much to the amusement of the Japan men. The level of skill is evident as the flatulence is delivered in 3 part harmony. The combination of a Spam and fresh fig diet is evident. When the air has cleared a bit, the Sargeant looks directly at his guests> Shinto crap religion. Cargo cult better. Ensign McGoo bring Spam...........

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 2/17/2011 3:51:32 PM >

(in reply to Moondawggie)
Post #: 3963
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 3:59:34 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Pretend I didn't read the manual.

Why was I unable to reload main gun ammo on Nevada at Wellington with a level 5 port and 30 naval support points, even with a loaded AE in support?

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3964
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 4:12:16 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

Admiral Lord Sprior
Viceroy of Kandy

My Dearest Spri;

We were wondering what you would think about a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni (with carrier escort) before operation Civet, or was it Capyburra? Please see attached illustration.

With great esteem;

Admiral of the Fleet Mandrake
Bora Bora







Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3965
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 4:49:29 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I think you need a level 7 port for 14' reloads or 6 w/ a crapload of nav support. The for >14' the ae has to have a carry capacity of >5k. I try not to read the manual myself so this is all from an admittedly failing memory.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3966
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 5:12:45 PM   
Onime No Kyo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

Admiral Lord Sprior
Viceroy of Kandy

My Dearest Spri;

We were wondering what you would think about a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni (with carrier escort) before operation Civet, or was it Capyburra? Please see attached illustration.

With great esteem;

Admiral of the Fleet Mandrake
Bora Bora





I think you should charge by the mile, Simon.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3967
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 5:42:13 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

I think you need a level 7 port for 14' reloads or 6 w/ a crapload of nav support. The for >14' the ae has to have a carry capacity of >5k. I try not to read the manual myself so this is all from an admittedly failing memory.


Right, I figured it was something like that. Succinctly then, size matters, which is the same reason Stalker Girl was willing to sign the prenuptual.

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 3968
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 5:42:42 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

Admiral Lord Sprior
Viceroy of Kandy

My Dearest Spri;

We were wondering what you would think about a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni (with carrier escort) before operation Civet, or was it Capyburra? Please see attached illustration.

With great esteem;

Admiral of the Fleet Mandrake
Bora Bora





I think you should charge by the mile, Simon.


It is Texas oil, dood.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 3969
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 6:14:05 PM   
sprior


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quote:

It is Texas oil, dood.


no it's not, it's from Arabia, which we own.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3970
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 6:14:54 PM   
sprior


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quote:

a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni


Why?

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3971
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 6:52:31 PM   
Mynok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

I think you need a level 7 port for 14' reloads or 6 w/ a crapload of nav support. The for >14' the ae has to have a carry capacity of >5k. I try not to read the manual myself so this is all from an admittedly failing memory.


Right, I figured it was something like that. Succinctly then, size matters, which is the same reason Stalker Girl was willing to sign the prenuptual.



Yes it does. She apparently thought your house was big enough.

AE cargo capacity is what caused the reload failure. Got be larger than the reload size, plus it must have supplies onboard.


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3972
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 7:22:56 PM   
witpqs


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Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

Admiral Lord Sprior
Viceroy of Kandy

My Dearest Spri;

We were wondering what you would think about a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni (with carrier escort) before operation Civet, or was it Capyburra? Please see attached illustration.

With great esteem;

Admiral of the Fleet Mandrake
Bora Bora




Got bored wanted to see how it would come out...





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3973
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 7:31:49 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

Admiral Lord Sprior
Viceroy of Kandy

My Dearest Spri;

We were wondering what you would think about a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni (with carrier escort) before operation Civet, or was it Capyburra? Please see attached illustration.

With great esteem;

Admiral of the Fleet Mandrake
Bora Bora




Got bored wanted to see how it would come out...






Yes, precisely, East of Raoul and Samoa, thence Westerly to Ndeni, splitting the difference between the Jap held Marshalls and Luganville to avoid detection.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3974
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 7:38:01 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni


Why?


Why, to overawe the wee Jap dobbers with our awesome supply of bulldozers, build a level 5 airfield in a week and then blacken the sky with the pride of Seattle

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 3975
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 7:41:26 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

It is Texas oil, dood.


no it's not, it's from Arabia, which we own.


Must be one of those "off-map" supply lines. I sent one of those TK thingys to San Diego and pushed the load fuel button. I did not know it was Saudi oil.

History of Aramco

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco

1932 Oil is discovered in Bahrain. Socal begins a year-long series of negotiations with the Saudi government.

1933 Saudi Arabia grants oil concession to California Arabian Standard Oil Company (Casoc), affiliate of Standard Oil of California (Socal, today's Chevron). Oil prospecting begins on Kingdom's east coast.

1936 Texas Oil Company (now Texaco) acquires 50% interest in Socal's concession. The joint venture became known as the California Texas Oil Company, or Caltex.

1938 Kingdom's first commercial oil field discovered at Dhahran. Crude is exported by barge to Bahrain.

1939 First tanker load of petroleum is exported. (Socal’s D.G. Scofield)



< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 2/17/2011 7:42:42 PM >

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 3976
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 7:43:05 PM   
Onime No Kyo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni


Why?


Why, to overawe the wee Jap dobbers with our awesome supply of bulldozers, build a level 5 airfield in a week and then blacken the sky with the pride of Seattle



Fleas?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3977
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 8:42:15 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Seriously, what's the risk/benefit here? If we take it can we keep it supplied and open or will be just have a bunch of hungry marines and a churned up field?

No banyans for you, marine.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 3978
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 8:45:36 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		You could bring a huge amount of supplies in the initial sea lift. As they pound on the place you'll leave them wondering how the place is holding up, while you hit them someplace else.

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 3979
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 9:59:09 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

a quick jaunt to drop off a regiment of Marines, coastal guns and engineers at Ndeni


Why?


Why, to overawe the wee Jap dobbers with our awesome supply of bulldozers, build a level 5 airfield in a week and then blacken the sky with the pride of Seattle



Fleas?

Coffee!!

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 3980
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 10:45:35 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Seriously, what's the risk/benefit here? If we take it can we keep it supplied and open or will be just have a bunch of hungry marines and a churned up field?

No banyans for you, marine.


Right, one would need a 50K supply "drop" with the initial landing. I still have to work out how many days that would take to get across the beach. Technically we don't have to "take it" as it is a friendly green dot. One would need to take enough AK's to unload 40-50K supplies in 3-4 days. It would then be a race to get the field up and running to a level 2 ASAP.

The benefit would be the incipient isolation of the huge Jap presence in New Caledonia. Of course, they might try a counter landing, but their landing force would be vulnerable to the surpise appearance of the Allied carriers.

I'm still working out the details.

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 3981
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 10:50:49 PM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Remember to bring Naval Support squads (in DaBabes that would be Shore Party squads) as they greatly improve unloading rates.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3982
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/17/2011 10:51:28 PM   
sprior


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Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		I'd need to look more and see who would be cutting off who. I'd really not just provide a live bombing practice target for the IJAAF and friends.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3983
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/18/2011 1:59:28 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Pretend I didn't read the manual.

Why was I unable to reload main gun ammo on Nevada at Wellington with a level 5 port and 30 naval support points, even with a loaded AE in support?


As others have noted, size matters....to a certain degree only. Next time the lawyers argue over clauses in the pre nup you can impress them with your knowledge of s.20.1.2.2 of the manual. The abridged version is as follows.

As the Nevada's rifles have an effect of 1500, they can only be rearmed where you can generate 3000 rearm points (ie 2x the effect of a weapon). The native rearm capacity of a port is provided in the table on page 109. From here you can see that a port sized 5 has a low rearm limit of 300 points, far below that required to allow rearming the Nevada.

You can supplement the native rearm capacity of a port with Naval Support squads. Each Naval Support squad provides 5 rearm points. Hence your port sized 5 would need 540 Naval Support squads to make up the deficit. With only 30 such squads at Wellington, you are well short.

Use of tenders can bypass deficient sized ports and Naval Support squad shortages. In the case of the Nevada, all AE classes and all (excluding one) AKE classes, if fully loaded, can fully rearm the Nevada. The one AKE class which cannot fully rearm the Nevada, is the Regulus class as it's total capacity is only 2560 points. Of course, if you had any other AE/AKE class present at Wellington but with less than a full load (specifically less than 3000 supply points on board), you would not be able to rearm the Nevada.

In summary, a size 7 port will fully rearm the big guns of any Allied BB. A size 6 port will rearm the 8" guns of any Allied CA, a size 5 port will rearm the 6" guns of any Allied CL. There will be very few Allied ports which will have present the necessary hundreds of Naval Support squads to make good for a "small" port. This is why fully loaded AEs/AKEs are so valuable, but remember the small size of the Regulus class which really relegates it to rearming Allied CAs.

Alfred


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3984
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/18/2011 2:05:36 AM   
Mynok


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He can still get stuff to Noumea coming the west. I doubt you have anything good at naval attack that can reach out that far from Ndeni.


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

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Post #: 3985
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/18/2011 2:21:44 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Seriously, what's the risk/benefit here? If we take it can we keep it supplied and open or will be just have a bunch of hungry marines and a churned up field?

No banyans for you, marine.


Right, one would need a 50K supply "drop" with the initial landing. I still have to work out how many days that would take to get across the beach. Technically we don't have to "take it" as it is a friendly green dot. One would need to take enough AK's to unload 40-50K supplies in 3-4 days. It would then be a race to get the field up and running to a level 2 ASAP.

The benefit would be the incipient isolation of the huge Jap presence in New Caledonia. Of course, they might try a counter landing, but their landing force would be vulnerable to the surpise appearance of the Allied carriers.

I'm still working out the details.



Ah...logistics. Everytime Cap Mandrake opens the door on the subject of logistics, I feel there is an opportunity for me to do some unsolicited pro bono work and translate the manual for his benefit.

Unless there is a typo in the above quote, we are talking about moving beaucoup men and materiel to a green dot base. Ahemm...cough...cough...perchance the logistics haven't been quite fully factored in to this contemplated exercise.

1. A dot base has a 5000 supply limit before supply wastage comes into play. Dropping off 50k of supply is going to lead to an awful lot of wastage.

2. The unloading rate of a cargo/transport TF at a dot base is extremely low, only 100 supply per day.

3. The unloading rate of an amphibious TF to a friendly owned dot base is provided on page 128 of the manual. For illustrative purposes, an AK in an amphibious TF would unload 300 supply daily (per AK ship), where the daily unload rate for an xAK in an amphibious TF is 125 supply (per xAK ship).

In summary, a 1-2 ship (AK or xAK) TF will carry sufficient supply to bring you up to the wastage limits. That single ship will take in the vicinity of 3 weeks to fully unload its cargo at the dot base.

Alfred

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3986
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/18/2011 2:46:19 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Naval support will increase the unload rate. All ships will have to be in amphibious mode, and the greater the number of ships the more will be unloaded per turn (though not per ship, as Alfred notes).

Supply wastage will take time to eat up the supply. If you decide to do this, bring as much supply as you can, in as many small xAK's as you can. As you build up the base - you did mention a goodly sized batch of engineers? - the supply limit will rapidly increase. Some supply will be wasted but most will benefit from the rising limit as the bases increases in size.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3987
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/18/2011 5:16:11 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Seriously, what's the risk/benefit here? If we take it can we keep it supplied and open or will be just have a bunch of hungry marines and a churned up field?

No banyans for you, marine.


Right, one would need a 50K supply "drop" with the initial landing. I still have to work out how many days that would take to get across the beach. Technically we don't have to "take it" as it is a friendly green dot. One would need to take enough AK's to unload 40-50K supplies in 3-4 days. It would then be a race to get the field up and running to a level 2 ASAP.

The benefit would be the incipient isolation of the huge Jap presence in New Caledonia. Of course, they might try a counter landing, but their landing force would be vulnerable to the surpise appearance of the Allied carriers.

I'm still working out the details.



Ah...logistics. Everytime Cap Mandrake opens the door on the subject of logistics, I feel there is an opportunity for me to do some unsolicited pro bono work and translate the manual for his benefit.

Unless there is a typo in the above quote, we are talking about moving beaucoup men and materiel to a green dot base. Ahemm...cough...cough...perchance the logistics haven't been quite fully factored in to this contemplated exercise.

1. A dot base has a 5000 supply limit before supply wastage comes into play. Dropping off 50k of supply is going to lead to an awful lot of wastage.

2. The unloading rate of a cargo/transport TF at a dot base is extremely low, only 100 supply per day.

3. The unloading rate of an amphibious TF to a friendly owned dot base is provided on page 128 of the manual. For illustrative purposes, an AK in an amphibious TF would unload 300 supply daily (per AK ship), where the daily unload rate for an xAK in an amphibious TF is 125 supply (per xAK ship).

In summary, a 1-2 ship (AK or xAK) TF will carry sufficient supply to bring you up to the wastage limits. That single ship will take in the vicinity of 3 weeks to fully unload its cargo at the dot base.

Alfred


Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves.

Number 3 says it all. 300 supply per turn per AK...even 20 AK's would unload only 6,000 per turn so it would take 4 days to reach 20,000 even without wastage. Meanwhile, the carriers would have to remain on station as beucoups bombers would deploy to Lunga.

Better perhaps would be to plan an attack on Luganville (after the proper preparation) which already has a level one airfield.

I so hate it when reality interferes with fantasy.

...on the other hand...there is Rossel Is..........

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3988
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/18/2011 5:18:00 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Naval support will increase the unload rate. All ships will have to be in amphibious mode, and the greater the number of ships the more will be unloaded per turn (though not per ship, as Alfred notes).

Supply wastage will take time to eat up the supply. If you decide to do this, bring as much supply as you can, in as many small xAK's as you can. As you build up the base - you did mention a goodly sized batch of engineers? - the supply limit will rapidly increase. Some supply will be wasted but most will benefit from the rising limit as the bases increases in size.



Crazy... I mean like, so many positive waves... maybe we can't lose, you're on!

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3989
RE: Hearts and Minds - 2/18/2011 5:18:53 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


He can still get stuff to Noumea coming the west. I doubt you have anything good at naval attack that can reach out that far from Ndeni.



See below

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 3990
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