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Submarines and Max Reaction Level

 
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Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/22/2011 6:18:48 PM   
augustinus

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		It seems to me, from AI/PBEM experience that a max level of 1 for submarines means that it will attack anything within sight/range, which I have found can be detrimental to the sub. At level 1 it sends a spread of torpedoes at DDs and PCs, which I'm not after, with no effect, usually, because these vessels are faster and more maneuverable, and the consequences of missed/dud torpedoes is a shower of DCs. So, I'm wondering if I put the Max Level at zero, will the sub discriminate between DDs and PCs and the fat boys, CVs, BBs, and CAs? If not, then there needs to be another level added: e.g. Zero for no reaction, 1, for the fat boys, and 2 for anything. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/22/2011 6:56:26 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		You misunderstand what "reaction" is. All it is an auto movement order, it has absolutely nothing to do with firing solutions. Everything on the surface runs at a faster pace than does a WWII submerged submarine.

Alfred

(in reply to augustinus)
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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/23/2011 1:15:34 PM   
augustinus

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Alfred, thanks for your reply; however, I still do not understand. Maybe, some examples would help this foggy old brain to get the picture, not only as it applies to submarines, but also to, say, an SC TF or an AC TF? With the word "reaction" I'm still locked into the idea of levels of aggressiveness toward an "action". I also notice that a Transport TF does not have this option. Thanks for helping.

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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/23/2011 1:26:06 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: augustinus

Alfred, thanks for your reply; however, I still do not understand. Maybe, some examples would help this foggy old brain to get the picture, not only as it applies to submarines, but also to, say, an SC TF or an AC TF? With the word "reaction" I'm still locked into the idea of levels of aggressiveness toward an "action". I also notice that a Transport TF does not have this option. Thanks for helping.


Reaction is a hex range/distance, not a degree of ardor. If a sub has a '0' in there, it should theoretically ignore a target outside its hex even if it knows of the target through some other detection method. If it has a '1' it has a 1-hex ring around its location hex where it should have a chance of reacting and attacking a target there. I believe there are a number of random rolls involved in this case.

When the game shipped subs had possible reaction ranges up to '6'. Subs were charging all over the seas toward distant targets ambling by. This was reduced to '1' in the first patch. Many players use a '1' sparingly as it can allow a sub to react into an enemy harbor which may be mined, or shallow water where ASW is much more effective. It's up to you how you set that control. I use it sometimes, and not in others. It depends on where the patrol area is located.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 2/23/2011 1:30:34 PM >

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The Moose

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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/23/2011 1:55:43 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Maybe as an additional way of explaining reaction:

Per day there are two TF movement phases. During these phases the TF move a number of hexes related to their speed
and cruise settigns on the course designated by the player.

Each phase is preceeded by a reaction phase. These reaction phases do not trigger movement on predefined paths
but depend on mission settings and sightings within the TF reaction range. So a sub on patrol set to react will try to intercept any sighting
with a max distance of 1 (additionally depending on dice rolls like sub commander aggressiveness).

This gives the TF reacting the initiative compared to a TF just moving.



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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/23/2011 3:09:36 PM   
augustinus

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		My thanks to all, especially The Moose and LoBaron, who have actually opened my mind to the real idea behind Max Reaction. It will certainly make a difference in my tactical planning. Sorry I was slow on the uptake. Smooth sailing, guys.

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Post #: 6
RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/23/2011 4:05:53 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: augustinus

My thanks to all, especially The Moose and LoBaron, who have actually opened my mind to the real idea behind Max Reaction. It will certainly make a difference in my tactical planning. Sorry I was slow on the uptake. Smooth sailing, guys.



Welcome to AE , don't fret over foggy brain syndrome as we all have it to one degree or another. any quesries just ask and someone helpful usually hauls up with an informative response.

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sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/24/2011 2:27:17 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		One thing about reaction in Surface combat TFs.

If I want the TF to react and engage a TF I know is nearby is it better to not set the TF to it's full movement potential. So, if it can go 6 hexes, and I set it to go 3 forward in the hope it will have 3 left to react if planes find the TF I want to hit, is this better than just setting it for 6 or more?

Only slightly related--

Why do air Combat TFs not attack weak transport they run into at night even though there are 4 CAs, a CL, and 6 destroyers in there? This seems silly. Obviously if the TF saw an enemy ship it would try to hit it, probably with a small portion of the TF. A CL and 4 destroyers would react and run out to cream the 2-4 transports and escorts, and the DBs would mop up in the light. Right?

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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/24/2011 4:12:44 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well, you have to be careful for what you ask for. A combat TF set to six hexes may actually react six hexes deeper into enemy territory and have multiple reactions over the course of a turn. Leaving it out of ammo and Operation points and sitting in deep doo doo when the enemy air attack phase comes about. I rarely set mine above 3 and only when I am not so worried about enemy retaliation.

I have had subs of mine (very aggressive commanders) react up to 3 hexes away from their patrol zone and ASW TF (usually set to 3) react four or five hexes out of a patrol zone, so be careful.

BTW, one of the real quirks of the game is that even when set to "0" carrier TFs will frequently react when near an enemy carrier TF.

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RE: Submarines and Max Reaction Level - 2/24/2011 7:43:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Good point. Don't want over-reaction!

The particular thing I'm trying to work out is when I'm in friendly waters, and a mystery convoy suddenly dodges all air searches and ends up taking Norfolk Is. Now, this is 20 hexes from Japanese territory! So, I have two cruisers Tfs out searching for this set of stealth Marus, and I am just wondering if I set them at 3 react, should I also set them to full movement for that turn? Or only move them halfway, (4 hexes), to give them movement left over to react with. Does that make sense?

Or should I send them off in the general direction at 3 react and hope for the best?

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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