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RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno

 
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RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 6:53:29 PM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		As the Soviets, I start digging in around Leningrad right on turn 1. From Pushkin to Kolpino I have level 4 forts on both sides of the Neva and another row of forts south of that. Them hills south of Pushkin can be a real stinker to get past if properly defended. I also protect the right flank along the Volkhov to prevent an end run to take the ports and the southern approach along the Neva down to Novgorod.

While you have strength in the frontline positions, you really don't have the depth to save Leningrad against a skilled German player. But based on how I see him play, Leningrad should be safe. I wouldn't count him out though from seeing his moves in the south. He might just be lulling you into complacency

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Post #: 61
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/10/2011 7:22:32 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

As the Soviets, I start digging in around Leningrad right on turn 1. From Pushkin to Kolpino I have level 4 forts on both sides of the Neva and another row of forts south of that. Them hills south of Pushkin can be a real stinker to get past if properly defended. I also protect the right flank along the Volkhov to prevent an end run to take the ports and the southern approach along the Neva down to Novgorod.

While you have strength in the frontline positions, you really don't have the depth to save Leningrad against a skilled German player. But based on how I see him play, Leningrad should be safe. I wouldn't count him out though from seeing his moves in the south. He might just be lulling you into complacency


Yep Andy... I saw that as well... there is nothing in rear for Soviets to fall back if some serious breakthrough happens...

BTW, IMHO, Leningrad is the most important area Soviet player has to guard - the fall of Leningrad would mean tremendous advantage for Axis!

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(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 62
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/11/2011 5:03:49 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Turn 9 and he's officially becoming dangerous. This is situation around Kiev, I've never had Kiev fall this early, but I also never had AGS Panzers operating this north. So now we have two big panzer groups (one Panzer group from AGM is near Chernigov) operating close together at somewhat unexpected part of the map. I don't have too many defences here, and since he's past Pripyat marshes and can soon be over Dnieper in force, bad things might happen...




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Post #: 63
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/11/2011 5:07:02 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Leningrad, I lost my bet (with myself LOL) He didn't go directly NNE towards LG, he went east, smashed through my well prepared defences - and they were well prepared although you don't see it on the previous screenshot from this area because I take screenshots at the beginning of the turn.

Anyhow, luckily he didn't go very far, because he spent MPs on combat, but at the beginning of my turn there is nothing south of Lake Ilmen to prevent him from going east and doing the right hook.






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< Message edited by Oleg Mastruko -- 3/11/2011 5:08:00 PM >

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Post #: 64
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/11/2011 5:09:26 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Smolensk landbridge, he is bulldozing his way forward couple hexes per turn but no decisive breakthroughs so far, the city still holds although it's mostly bypassed...




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Post #: 65
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/11/2011 5:15:55 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Note there is no armor between Lake Ilmen and Smolensk, as he moved his Panzer groups to the south. Even the northern of the two AGM Panzer groups is operating more to the south than I would recommend, but I am by no means an expert on German strategy. Personally, in my last game as German, I had THREE Panzer groups operating in the lattitudes north of Smolensk. He has two well south of Smolensk, near Kiev, and one around that city, plus one in the north.

If he indeed manages to take LG with so many of his units in the south I might be in trouble...

Losses.... I gotta admit Soviet losses are a big mystery to me, numbers are never what I would expect, sometimes smaller sometimes much bigger. Here I have no idea how he managed to inflict almost 1,5 million Sov losses so far. I was never in panic (until last couple turns), there were no big encirclements.... I mostly retreated in good order... so how so many Sov losses?

It's slightly worrying, in a sense that 1-2 big encirclements, if he manages to pull them off, will make Sov manpower situation precarious.




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Post #: 66
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 3:54:57 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		What's going on in Senno's thread? I see it rapidly got more popular than this thread of mine plus his play got really dangerous

Did he hire some well paid western military advisors, dirty mercenaries or even SPIES!

We might have to deal with that problem the Soviet way!






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Post #: 67
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 4:02:29 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Okay, north, he rapidly changed his direction, again. Obviously he is trying to make me shift the weight of my defences here, and then change the direction of attack there. I ended my prervious turn by shifting the bulk of my forces in marshes south of Lake Ilmen and reassigning them to NW Front. Now he struck right in the middle of River Luga line. He did penetrate it, but didn't get too far.

I will realign my forces, shift and reassign them from Lake Ilmen and NW Front back to LG Front again. I do believe he's commited to this vector of attack now, and won't be able to change his mind yet again, going for the right hook...




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Post #: 68
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 4:07:13 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Kiev sector, chaos with several pockets and quasi-pockets, I will lose at least 15 divisions here, but the biggest danger is the possibility of his AGM Panzer group cutting to the south and isolating huge number of units (arrow). That would pretty much be replica of the historic Kiev pocket, but surely he does not think I will just sit and watch?

Stavka ordered abandoning whole middle Dnepr and taking new defensive positions along the river Sula. We basically gave up on piece of land bigger than many EU member states or USA states in one turn




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< Message edited by Oleg Mastruko -- 3/12/2011 8:52:37 PM >

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Post #: 69
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 4:12:38 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		That Chernigov Panzer group indicated in the previous post can go south, trying to link up with AGS panzers, forming a huuuge Kiev pocket, as described above.....

.... but it can also go directly forward (not much point in that)....

.... and it can try to swing north, linking up with the other AGM Panzer group, forming a humungous pocket smack dab in the middle of the map, capturing units, and opening the way towards Bryansk and further east.




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< Message edited by Oleg Mastruko -- 3/12/2011 4:26:17 AM >

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Post #: 70
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 4:16:16 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		So, assessing the potential and very realistic threats, I decided to pull back many miles forming three holes where his pockets could have been in the next turn.

I'd love to be able to read his thread to see how will he react to this




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Post #: 71
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 4:17:07 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

What's going on in Senno's thread? I see it rapidly got more popular than this thread of mine plus his play got really dangerous

Did he hire some well paid western military advisors, dirty mercenaries or even SPIES!

We might have to deal with that problem the Soviet way!






No spies that I have seen, Oleg. Of course, my advice has mainly been to run to Bolivia (Argentina is mine!) Also, I brought up "72-Cannon Chang" in the thread (worth looking up), so you can bet my military advice is not the most sound...

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Post #: 72
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 4:19:10 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Also, Oleg. Given how you post, play, and comment - if I am ever in your neck of the woods, I will buy you a beer...just to hear your take on things

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

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Post #: 73
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 4:22:49 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch
I brought up "72-Cannon Chang" in the thread (worth looking up)


Yes, it was definitely worth looking up, seems like a cool guy

As for Senno, no need for Bolivian visa, if push comes to shove he can always do Seydlitz-Kurzbach, see the light, defect with half of his armies and fight for the Soviet cause. We'll find a post of some provincial governor in post war Red Europe for him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_von_Seydlitz-Kurzbach


(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 74
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 6:03:48 AM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		His play has picked up since the start of the game. Certainly the last couple of turns have been a better showing for him in strategic thought as far as putting more pressure on Oleg than when he first started out. If this keeps up, he gets a couple games of experience under his belt and he will be fairly nasty to deal with.



(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 75
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 8:21:04 AM   
Emx77


Posts: 419
Joined: 3/29/2004
From: Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina
Status: offline 		Oleg, I'm realy enjoying reading your AAR. And that pleasant experience is somewhat ruined by those ugly hand drawn arrows and circles. Why don't you use for example (freeware) Paint.NET? It has nice options for drawing arrows and it is not complicated for use.

Now, regarding situation around Leningrad - IMO he is unnecesarly lossing precious time by shifting direction of advance every turn. Still, keep a couple of divisions in urban hexes there just to avoid any possible unpleasant breakthrough.

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 76
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 12:16:32 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		No spies, but I must confess, I have made some tactical suggestions to him.

Have not allowed any intell gaps. Just suggestions on what I would do from his screen shots only. He has not really needed advice since the last 2-4 turns. And I was staying out of your thread during that time frame while advice was given. Once he asked, I quit reading your AAR so as to not have too much intel.

I did tell him that pocketing you was a pain in the butt and you are not afraid to make a big pull back if you smelled a rat though. Looks like I was right. LOL

Actually advice was given in PM turn 5-8 to get him back on track.

< Message edited by 2ndACR -- 3/12/2011 12:19:53 PM >

(in reply to Emx77)
Post #: 77
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 6:31:29 PM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		Inflicting massive casualties on the Soviets isn't too hard to do. Forcing units to rout can cause nearly as many casualties sometimes as a surrender does, just depends on morale. Very low morale can cause a unit to shatter. Check your support units, if you made a lot of those and threw them into a combat situation without giving them much time to train, then they too can easily shatter. Retreating can also cause a lot of casualties, especially if a unit has to retreat back over a river or a stack of friendly units. If you have several rows of units that are stacked 3 high, when the front row retreats, they will be forced to go additional spaces due to stacking limits causing additional losses.

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Post #: 78
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 7:07:36 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		That's some useful info Sabre, thanks, and yes I do produce quite a lot of support units... ACR I was joking about spies and mercenaries, I wanted to sound like semi-mad paranoid dictator, something to the tune of Gadhaffi or, well, obviously, Stalin.

In fact I have no problems with Senno having advisers etc unless someone tells him outright what I plan to do...

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Post #: 79
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 7:09:32 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emir Agic
Oleg, I'm realy enjoying reading your AAR. And that pleasant experience is somewhat ruined by those ugly hand drawn arrows and circles. Why don't you use for example (freeware) Paint.NET? It has nice options for drawing arrows and it is not complicated for use.


I am big fan of messy hand drawn AAR maps. I hate neat and tidy maps in AARs


(in reply to Emx77)
Post #: 80
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/12/2011 7:09:36 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Rats! I told him you plan to win.  Sorry...



_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 81
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/13/2011 9:29:50 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
I am big fan of messy hand drawn AAR maps. I hate neat and tidy maps in AARs



Stick with the MSPaint arrows. I love them!

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 82
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/13/2011 9:35:00 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Oleg,

I'd give some advice, but since you're also playing as the Soviets against me, it would be self-defeating. Therefore, take this post as a complimentary thread post-count padding. Strictly to keep the morale up, you know...

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 83
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/14/2011 2:13:25 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
I'd give some advice, but since you're also playing as the Soviets against me, it would be self-defeating. Therefore, take this post as a complimentary thread post-count padding. Strictly to keep the morale up, you know...


Thanks James, I find your presence encouraging and mildly sedating Completely different to the impression you leave in the game itself as player. It's hard to imagine such a nice guy behind that ZZ Top look you had as avatar picture on the forum for some time (was that really you BTW?)


(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 84
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/14/2011 2:19:40 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Now if someone tells me Germans are not supermen.... Leningrad, he just bulldozes his way forward, no subtlety, no flanking, no manouver, just brutal force attacking forward. And he will probably get there. His forces suffer no morale loss...

Obviously, since the morale in WITE is gained by winning, and having to fight day and night away from home with your buddies dying bad food no toilet paper and your wife back home leaving you for the drug addict member of the motorcycle gang does not affect morale as long as you win battles. Fritzes have no supply problems, no feelings, no brain, no soul, they fight like goddam robots....

Fatigue, if they suffer any, I must conclude it has no or negligible influence on their combat performance...

I really don't see what could I have done differently regarding LG defence. If anything, I alotted MORE units for this sector, and better units. I even transferred some of them very good Kiev tank and mech units here since his southern opening was pretty weak. I put them in good defensive terrain. I let them build forts, best commanders, tons of support units, best available C&C structure, whole nine yards....

He didn't outsmart me, he didn't flank me, he didn't do anything I could not predict....

And yet, his god in this game appears to be simply stronger than my god and there is nothing I can do. (May be logical after all since commies are atheists LOL!)

In the memorable words of Mongol leader Hulagu: "Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations. Only those who beg our protection will be safe. Hasten your reply before the fire of war is kindled. Resist and you will suffer the most terrible catastrophes. We will shatter your mosques and reveal the weakness of your God and then we will kill your children and your old men together."

Now, imagine old von Leeb, AGN leader, saying this in his message to LG Front Commander LOL

This is funny and if you know von Leeb and imagine him saying this it's even more funny.

BTW I didn't see Hulagu on the list of WITE beta testers but he appears to have played WITE beta because above description is incredibly accurate regarding German soldiers in WITE summer 41!

WHAT DOES THIS FREAKING GAME WANT ME TO DO TO BE ABLE TO FIGHT SUPERMEN ON EQUAL TERMS? OK, lets forget fighting on anything remotely resembling equal terms, what do I have to do to inflict casualties, fatigue, bad omens, TOE losses, constipation, diarhhea, ANYTHING to these ubermen???

German supermen are simply unstoppable, and anyone saying otherwise is wrong.

OK rant over.

Having said all that, I don't feel too bad about LG. If he takes the city by brute force, there will be no encirclements and I will retreat in good order. Since his position elsewhere is not too threatening, him taking LG might in fact make the game more interesting long term. So, let him have it but the way the game allows him to take it - by ubermen force - frankly leaves bad taste in my mouth.

Nevermind, the blizzards will come and then I will have my own supermen. Hulagu will then be Mother Theresa compared to what my hearless ubermen will do to his German winter wussies.

Elsewhere, not much happened in the last couple turns. My retreats described above worked like charm, and he spent lots of MPs to just take the area I left. He had some half hearted and not entirely successful attempts at enciclements in the south, but the most interesting development is around LG at the moment.




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Post #: 85
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/14/2011 2:33:29 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		OH and before someone says it.... I know that stacking units 3 per hex in 2-3 rows will make the units in the first row rout if they have nowehere to retreat. That's OK, I was ready to take that risk in some positions, simply because I wanted my second line to be as strong as possible by itself, not to rely on the retreating units from the first line taking positions in forts.

Take a look at the 3 unit German stack closest to LG. 25=78. There is no option to countarattack that Godzilla. They are 25=78, and have greenest possible morale flag (they are happier than after a visit to the best brothel in Berlin, expenses covered by OKH). All that after couple weeks of INCESSANT fighting through WALLS of SOVIET FORTS and seas of enemy soldiers. Now tell me these are not supermen....

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 86
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/14/2011 2:52:12 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		Ahh, the Panzer Bulldozer.  God I love it.  There is a Lead Cross (1st class) in Senno's future.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 87
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/14/2011 3:01:48 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko


quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
I'd give some advice, but since you're also playing as the Soviets against me, it would be self-defeating. Therefore, take this post as a complimentary thread post-count padding. Strictly to keep the morale up, you know...


Thanks James, I find your presence encouraging and mildly sedating Completely different to the impression you leave in the game itself as player. It's hard to imagine such a nice guy behind that ZZ Top look you had as avatar picture on the forum for some time (was that really you BTW?)



Yes, that's really me. It's an older picture though. These days the beard is more like Gandalf's, or Dumbledore's, and I keep it tied together in rubber bands or braided to reduce the crazed look caused by the flyaway effect...

I'm glad I can offer some sedation. Usually, I'm accused of sedition, but in your case, I think you've got that aspect well-covered!


(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 88
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/14/2011 3:02:26 AM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		I read your AAR PDH, and it appears Senno is heavily drawing from your experiences and leadership. The encirclement attempts in the center and south he tried to pull off were almost exact copies of yours. LG is more of a brute force affair, akin to Q-Ball's latest game (where he also appears to be nigh on unstoppable, even by stacks with defensive value of 30 over a major river (!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

I see your future as lecturer at OKH officer school in Potsdam.

(in reply to PeeDeeAitch)
Post #: 89
RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Sen... - 3/14/2011 3:09:31 AM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		I will lecture from a bar stool in a beer cellar somewhere - much more suited to my style.  I will call my lecture (pauses to drink) "The Crazed Dogs Attack - Bulldozing Your Way to Victory!"

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 90
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