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RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/6/2011 8:26:03 PM

Jeffrey H.

Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lrfss

I would like to know if forced labor is included in my German production efforts and do they increase say up to around early 1944 assuming I capture more manpower centers and like wise decrease if I lose them

Here we go again.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Lrfss)

Post #: 91

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/6/2011 8:41:22 PM

fbs

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lrfss

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

If more people had read Mein Kampf as a blueprint for the future{which it was}instead of some form of autobiography the world might be a far different maybe better place.

Probably one of the more difficult books to finish that I've read! So much is so boring! However a must read for anyone that desires to have a clue about the mind set of the man and as you stated the blueprint of his desired future, etc.

Haha, I saw on TV sometime ago a couple of ladies that belonged to Hitler's staff in the Wolfsschanze (they took notes or something), saying that on the daily meetings with the generals to review the situation, everything was very interesting and exciting; but when "The Boss" started his monologues with pastry in the afternoon or went through his ramblings during dinner, they were bored to death. They said they even had a rotation for staying with "The Boss" during pastry time :-)

< Message edited by fbs -- 4/6/2011 8:43:37 PM >

(in reply to Lrfss)

Post #: 92

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/6/2011 9:01:06 PM

Lrfss

Posts: 349
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lrfss

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

If more people had read Mein Kampf as a blueprint for the future{which it was}instead of some form of autobiography the world might be a far different maybe better place.

Probably one of the more difficult books to finish that I've read! So much is so boring! However a must read for anyone that desires to have a clue about the mind set of the man and as you stated the blueprint of his desired future, etc.

Haha, I saw on TV sometime ago a couple of ladies that belonged to Hitler's staff in the Wolfsschanze (they took notes or something), saying that on the daily meetings with the generals to review the situation, everything was very interesting and exciting; but when "The Boss" started his monologues with pastry in the afternoon or went through his ramblings during dinner, they were bored to death. They said they even had a rotation for staying with "The Boss" during pastry time :-)

Funny you mention this, I met long ago one of Hitler's secretaries "Trudy" I cant recall her last name though and she signed her book to me (Voices from the bunker...IIRC?), etc. Anyway, she stated that Hitler was extremely boring most of the time in the later years as he was pre-occupied with the pending fate of the nation and rambled on about things of very little importance considering all that was taking place at the time...

(in reply to fbs)

Post #: 93

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 12:41:05 AM

mmarquo

Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
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"I would like to know if forced labor is included in my German production efforts and do they increase say up to around early 1944 assuming I capture more manpower centers and like wise decrease if I lose them"

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

(in reply to Lrfss)

Post #: 94

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 1:23:54 AM

cookie monster

Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline

It's a very good question

I wouldn't have thought so, commercially released games try to be politically correct.

(in reply to mmarquo)

Post #: 95

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 1:33:34 AM

Mazzah

Posts: 19
Joined: 3/29/2011
From: Sweden
Status: offline

I agree keep politics and your wife for that matter waaay out of the sauna!
Ask me and i will elaborate.

< Message edited by Mazzah -- 4/7/2011 1:35:09 AM >

(in reply to rchora)

Post #: 96

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 3:08:18 AM

SgtKachalin

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lrfss
I would like to know if forced labor is included...

Pick an answer. Then ask yourself "How would you know?"

I doubt very much the model worked from bottom to top, as in "we have this many men who can lift 50kg, so they can carry this many bogies of the proper size for a MK III, and they can move this fast, so the factory produces this many wheel assemblies..."

You can see the problem. No, the model probably works from top to bottom. They probably looked at historical output, divided that by the factories/locations involved and figured what each produced. Derive an abstracted "manpower" figure for each, throw in abstracted "resources" (oil, metals, etc) and voila, the production system.

So pick whichever answer floats your boat.

(in reply to Lrfss)

Post #: 97

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 3:29:23 AM

PyleDriver

Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline

Hum clever point, never thunk of that one...

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(in reply to Lrfss)

Post #: 98

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 3:39:13 AM

PeeDeeAitch

Posts: 1276
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sgt Barker
So pick whichever answer floats your boat.

I pick "magic" as my answer.

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- Call me PDH

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(in reply to SgtKachalin)

Post #: 99

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 3:53:15 AM

Lrfss

Posts: 349
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sgt Barker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lrfss
I would like to know if forced labor is included...

Pick an answer. Then ask yourself "How would you know?"

I doubt very much the model worked from bottom to top, as in "we have this many men who can lift 50kg, so they can carry this many bogies of the proper size for a MK III, and they can move this fast, so the factory produces this many wheel assemblies..." You can see the problem. No, the model probably works from top to bottom. They probably looked at historical output, divided that by the factories/locations involved and figured what each produced. Derive an abstracted "manpower" figure for each, throw in abstracted "resources" (oil, metals, etc) and voila, the production system.

So pick whichever answer floats your boat.

Thanks for that thought, however this is a reasoanble question based on fact is it not?

In an effort to have the Sim be the best considering to the "Man" I vote that RHG and such can not be disbanded... This is bigger than some may think. Talk about gamey things... No way period that this would be possible at all...

(in reply to SgtKachalin)

Post #: 100

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 4:24:40 AM

Lrfss

Posts: 349
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"I would like to know if forced labor is included in my German production efforts and do they increase say up to around early 1944 assuming I capture more manpower centers and like wise decrease if I lose them"

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

Of course, are you kidding or what?

Have read the impact of all this was during the war...

Not intended to be anything other than fact, the question remains!

(in reply to mmarquo)

Post #: 101

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 4:42:58 AM

rchora

Posts: 44
Joined: 2/1/2011
Status: offline

The "Russian civilians" are present in the game digging forts...Supposedly doing voluntarily work, something that had a different connotation in those days and places I believe. But its not important to know if the forts are dug by patriotic civilians or penal battalions, what matters is that the game took the building of field fortification by non military personnel into account. The same applies to the forced labor in Germany. Its there in the production numbers and factories. Very well researched by the people behind this game, I should add.

From all of those "peculiarities" we know existed in the eastern front, the one I think is absent and would be both easier to model and would have the greatest impact in game is the absence of "Hiwis", some 600.000 support personnel would have a huge impact in the way Axis players would play.

(in reply to Lrfss)

Post #: 102

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 4:41:27 PM

barkman44

Posts: 344
Joined: 1/17/2010
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I guess i should make my posts in crayon for you,my statement about mein kampf was meant to be read as to be a warning of his future intentions as when churchill told stalin to read it,maybe churchill read it as a blueprint for a better world.As for glorifying Degrelle I don't see my post as doing that,even the marines hated the japanese they were fighting had a certain respect for there bravery.Now this is'nt an indictment of the game{shame i have to explain this first but its for those who have difficulty understanding what they read}but those playing as the germans in the gc are trying to see if they can make hitler victorious in the east which imo would have meant a victory in the war in europe and thus a continuation of the persecusions of the jews,gypsies and others.Are we all to be condemned for this!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pirx the Pilot
Well if I can give my humble opinion I guess the type of man this game attracts have more in common than not. I'm certain most of us read military history books by the score, have been playing similar games for a long time, and have some kind of military experience.

Of course those of us attracted by this kind of game have things in common. Problem with this thread is that it clearly was opened by a guy trying to start a political discussion to get a platform for his world view, and not to discuss the game. He "knows that the book author is an unrepentant nazi", yet in the same sentence he glorifies him. In another post he presents "Mein Kampf" as being a blueprint for a better world. What's next? An article published by Mengele on his "studies" in concentration camps? But of course the thread opener will question the existence of such camps...

Lock up this thread please!

(in reply to Reconvet)

Post #: 103

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 5:01:41 PM

barkman44

Posts: 344
Joined: 1/17/2010
Status: offline

I am 54 yrs old and have been studing ww2 since i was 11 ever since i saw Von ryans express.Probably like many forum members i have a extensive library starting with a first edition of greens warplanes of the third reich.
I guess i should be ashamed of the fact that the enemies side dominates.I've always been facinated by the wide assortment of military vehicle and aircraft the germans fielded{probably one of the reasons they lost to many different types so few spare parts}.Also the japanese for there aircraft.But when i pick up one of these books and read a chapter i should look over at a picture of belsen or the rape of nanking and say to myself these people in this volume supported these evil regimes and feel guilty an burn the book?
Or if I play a normandy war game and successfully repulse the landings and see the loses i caused I should curse myself and destroy the disc so I don't do this repellant act again,please

(in reply to barkman44)

Post #: 104

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 6:20:30 PM

Panama

Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
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I find it highly suspect when someone will not buy or read a book because the subject matter is not PC yet they can buy a game covering the exact same subject matter and that's ok.

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Post #: 105

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 6:26:51 PM

Panama

Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pirx the Pilot

The "Russian civilians" are present in the game digging forts...Supposedly doing voluntarily work, something that had a different connotation in those days and places I believe. But its not important to know if the forts are dug by patriotic civilians or penal battalions, what matters is that the game took the building of field fortification by non military personnel into account. The same applies to the forced labor in Germany. Its there in the production numbers and factories. Very well researched by the people behind this game, I should add.

From all of those "peculiarities" we know existed in the eastern front, the one I think is absent and would be both easier to model and would have the greatest impact in game is the absence of "Hiwis", some 600.000 support personnel would have a huge impact in the way Axis players would play.

The last thing a Penal Battalion would be doing is digging holes behind the lines. No such picnic for them! To the front and charge the minefields! If you live perhaps you will be exhonerated.

_____________________________

(in reply to rchora)

Post #: 106

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 11:01:55 PM

harrmonica

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/2/2011
From: home of the celts!
Status: offline

can we get back to talking about how swell Leon Degrelle was !??!

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 107

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/7/2011 11:29:56 PM

Aditia

Posts: 573
Joined: 3/27/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: harrmonica

can we get back to talking about how swell Leon Degrelle was !??!

Best post of the thread.

You recieve a +20 die modifier for irony, 2200 free internets, and a cookie

(in reply to harrmonica)

Post #: 108

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 8:28:17 AM

Reconvet

Posts: 355
Joined: 1/17/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama
I find it highly suspect when someone will not buy or read a book because the subject matter is not PC yet they can buy a game covering the exact same subject matter and that's ok.

Dead wrong. Playing this game is not roleplaying WWII ideologic activities, it confronts the player with purely military decisions.

Occupation policy (apart from garrison requirements), handling of pow's etc. is not part of WitE, and only a tiny fraction of those playing it and participating in this forum are ideologically motivated to do so (thread opener definitly is a nazi fan...).

I for myself would not have invested a dime in this software if I wouldn't have had full confidence that it's as free of WWII ideology as it can get. And I also won't throw good money to authors known as unrepentant nazis or stalinists. I just don't think the few bits of solid info I might get out of such books is worth the anger and sore neck I'd experience due to shaking my head in disbelief what trash can be put on paper by disfuncional brains. My time is too precious to be wasted like this...

< Message edited by Reconvet -- 4/8/2011 8:50:21 AM >

_____________________________

The biggest threat for mankind is ignorance.

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Post #: 109

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 12:40:55 PM

Panama

Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama
I find it highly suspect when someone will not buy or read a book because the subject matter is not PC yet they can buy a game covering the exact same subject matter and that's ok.

Dead wrong. Playing this game is not roleplaying WWII ideologic activities, it confronts the player with purely military decisions.

Occupation policy (apart from garrison requirements), handling of pow's etc. is not part of WitE, and only a tiny fraction of those playing it and participating in this forum are ideologically motivated to do so (thread opener definitly is a nazi fan...).

I for myself would not have invested a dime in this software if I wouldn't have had full confidence that it's as free of WWII ideology as it can get. And I also won't throw good money to authors known as unrepentant nazis or stalinists. I just don't think the few bits of solid info I might get out of such books is worth the anger and sore neck I'd experience due to shaking my head in disbelief what trash can be put on paper by disfuncional brains. My time is too precious to be wasted like this...

Meh...I'll save if for an opinion forum. Wasting people's time with pointless personal perfidity. Sorry got soooo off topic.

_____________________________

(in reply to Reconvet)

Post #: 110

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 1:21:30 PM

Reconvet

Posts: 355
Joined: 1/17/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama
Meh...I'll save if for an opinion forum. Wasting people's time with pointless personal perfidity. Sorry got soooo off topic.

Better get back to your cartoon, buddy.

_____________________________

The biggest threat for mankind is ignorance.

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 111

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 6:42:15 PM

barkman44

Posts: 344
Joined: 1/17/2010
Status: offline

reconvent,I was going to use a paint program to do this post in crayon so you could understand but instead will try not to use big words.
I would like to play against you as the soviets because apparently i would start out with an advantage.I surmise{sorry big word}I figure from your posts that before we play you would automatically delete the following from your oob.
1st ss,omg they were so proud of their beginings they retain the title bodyguard Adolph Hitler,can't have that.2ss hmm what was that town called...oh Oradour thats right click.3ss eckkk Eicke,theodore was'nt he a former commandandt at Dachau hmm and were'nt most of the men in this unit from concentration camp units??click, into delete heaven they go.
4thss police..naw still ss gots to go.5thss a bunch of traitors and probably holocaust deniers click.The same with the 4th nederland and 10th nordland,traitors all bye bye.
12thss I'll get to them when witw comes out,bunch of fanatical hitler worshipping punks,you just wait you'll get yours.
Let's see...commanders,won't have to face von Leeb or Manstein 'cause they supported Hitlers commissar order,bullet in the back of the head for them.
But then again we would'nt be playing at all because in playing the axis you would be role-playing for Hitler.Like it or not you are the supreme commander when playing either side.
So lets try acw..naw,won't work because if you took the souths side you'd be defending slavery and if i took the souths side you'd say i was a neo-confederate who supported slavery and secceccion.
So lets just play a good game of chess..but then again if I took the WHITE side,s**t can't win for losing.
As you can divulge{sorry}figure I don't like being called a neo-nazi by a pseudo-intellectuall{sorry look it up}
You can respond but "speak to the hand 'cause the ears ain't listening".You've said enough and I think I deserve an apology for your gross miss-interpretation{another big word sorry}of my Mein Kampf post.

< Message edited by barkorn45 -- 4/8/2011 6:44:47 PM >

(in reply to Reconvet)

Post #: 112

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 7:23:09 PM

Lrfss

Posts: 349
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

reconvent,I was going to use a paint program to do this post in crayon so you could understand but instead will try not to use big words.
I would like to play against you as the soviets because apparently i would start out with an advantage.I surmise{sorry big word}I figure from your posts that before we play you would automatically delete the following from your oob.
1st ss,omg they were so proud of their beginings they retain the title bodyguard Adolph Hitler,can't have that.2ss hmm what was that town called...oh Oradour thats right click.3ss eckkk Eicke,theodore was'nt he a former commandandt at Dachau hmm and were'nt most of the men in this unit from concentration camp units??click, into delete heaven they go.
4thss police..naw still ss gots to go.5thss a bunch of traitors and probably holocaust deniers click.The same with the 4th nederland and 10th nordland,traitors all bye bye.
12thss I'll get to them when witw comes out,bunch of fanatical hitler worshipping punks,you just wait you'll get yours.
Let's see...commanders,won't have to face von Leeb or Manstein 'cause they supported Hitlers commissar order,bullet in the back of the head for them.
But then again we would'nt be playing at all because in playing the axis you would be role-playing for Hitler.Like it or not you are the supreme commander when playing either side.
So lets try acw..naw,won't work because if you took the souths side you'd be defending slavery and if i took the souths side you'd say i was a neo-confederate who supported slavery and secceccion.
So lets just play a good game of chess..but then again if I took the WHITE side,s**t can't win for losing.
As you can divulge{sorry}figure I don't like being called a neo-nazi by a pseudo-intellectuall{sorry look it up}
You can respond but "speak to the hand 'cause the ears ain't listening".You've said enough and I think I deserve an apology for your gross miss-interpretation{another big word sorry}of my Mein Kampf post.

OMG, no SS units, who could play such a game!?!?!

Hey I would play you, however I have to have all my SS men including Uncle Leon

(in reply to barkman44)

Post #: 113

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 7:37:37 PM

Panama

Posts: 1362
Joined: 10/30/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

reconvent,I was going to use a paint program to do this post in crayon so you could understand but instead will try not to use big words.
I would like to play against you as the soviets because apparently i would start out with an advantage.I surmise{sorry big word}I figure from your posts that before we play you would automatically delete the following from your oob.
1st ss,omg they were so proud of their beginings they retain the title bodyguard Adolph Hitler,can't have that.2ss hmm what was that town called...oh Oradour thats right click.3ss eckkk Eicke,theodore was'nt he a former commandandt at Dachau hmm and were'nt most of the men in this unit from concentration camp units??click, into delete heaven they go.
4thss police..naw still ss gots to go.5thss a bunch of traitors and probably holocaust deniers click.The same with the 4th nederland and 10th nordland,traitors all bye bye.
12thss I'll get to them when witw comes out,bunch of fanatical hitler worshipping punks,you just wait you'll get yours.
Let's see...commanders,won't have to face von Leeb or Manstein 'cause they supported Hitlers commissar order,bullet in the back of the head for them.
But then again we would'nt be playing at all because in playing the axis you would be role-playing for Hitler.Like it or not you are the supreme commander when playing either side.
So lets try acw..naw,won't work because if you took the souths side you'd be defending slavery and if i took the souths side you'd say i was a neo-confederate who supported slavery and secceccion.
So lets just play a good game of chess..but then again if I took the WHITE side,s**t can't win for losing.
As you can divulge{sorry}figure I don't like being called a neo-nazi by a pseudo-intellectuall{sorry look it up}
You can respond but "speak to the hand 'cause the ears ain't listening".You've said enough and I think I deserve an apology for your gross miss-interpretation{another big word sorry}of my Mein Kampf post.

You are beating a dead horse. Some people don't understand that to avoid future mistakes you have to know of and understand past evils. PC people are like a doctor trying to cure a plague over the phone. Don't want to get too close, it might be catching.

_____________________________

(in reply to barkman44)

Post #: 114

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 8:43:40 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline

Dang, just read the book already

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 115

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 8:44:02 PM

Steelers708

Posts: 138
Joined: 12/7/2010
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

reconvent,I was going to use a paint program to do this post in crayon so you could understand but instead will try not to use big words.
I would like to play against you as the soviets because apparently i would start out with an advantage.I surmise{sorry big word}I figure from your posts that before we play you would automatically delete the following from your oob.
1st ss,omg they were so proud of their beginings they retain the title bodyguard Adolph Hitler,can't have that.2ss hmm what was that town called...oh Oradour thats right click.3ss eckkk Eicke,theodore was'nt he a former commandandt at Dachau hmm and were'nt most of the men in this unit from concentration camp units??click, into delete heaven they go.
4thss police..naw still ss gots to go.5thss a bunch of traitors and probably holocaust deniers click.The same with the 4th nederland and 10th nordland,traitors all bye bye.
12thss I'll get to them when witw comes out,bunch of fanatical hitler worshipping punks,you just wait you'll get yours.
Let's see...commanders,won't have to face von Leeb or Manstein 'cause they supported Hitlers commissar order,bullet in the back of the head for them.
But then again we would'nt be playing at all because in playing the axis you would be role-playing for Hitler.Like it or not you are the supreme commander when playing either side.
So lets try acw..naw,won't work because if you took the souths side you'd be defending slavery and if i took the souths side you'd say i was a neo-confederate who supported slavery and secceccion.
So lets just play a good game of chess..but then again if I took the WHITE side,s**t can't win for losing.
As you can divulge{sorry}figure I don't like being called a neo-nazi by a pseudo-intellectuall{sorry look it up}
You can respond but "speak to the hand 'cause the ears ain't listening".You've said enough and I think I deserve an apology for your gross miss-interpretation{another big word sorry}of my Mein Kampf post.

You are beating a dead horse. Some people don't understand that to avoid future mistakes you have to know of and understand past evils. PC people are like a doctor trying to cure a plague over the phone. Don't want to get too close, it might be catching.

You're right, some people are so PC they're beyond redemption and belief. I hate to think what Reconvet must think of me, I'm a raving Neo-Nazi as not only do I own and have read Leon Degrelles book I've also read those written by, amongst others, Kurt 'Panzer' Meyer, and Otto Weidinger, but I'm also a Neo-Fascist as I have read and own Benito Mussolini's "The doctrine of Fascism".

On the other hand I'm a raving Communist as I own and have read not only Karl Marx's 'Communist Manifesto' but Chairman Mao Tse-Tung's 'Little Red Book'.

Maybe, just maybe, I'm seriously interested in history, both it's good points and it's bad, but then I can't be that sort of person as it doesn't exist in 'the world according to Reconvet'.

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 116

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 8:53:12 PM

Lrfss

Posts: 349
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelers708

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

reconvent,I was going to use a paint program to do this post in crayon so you could understand but instead will try not to use big words.
I would like to play against you as the soviets because apparently i would start out with an advantage.I surmise{sorry big word}I figure from your posts that before we play you would automatically delete the following from your oob.
1st ss,omg they were so proud of their beginings they retain the title bodyguard Adolph Hitler,can't have that.2ss hmm what was that town called...oh Oradour thats right click.3ss eckkk Eicke,theodore was'nt he a former commandandt at Dachau hmm and were'nt most of the men in this unit from concentration camp units??click, into delete heaven they go.
4thss police..naw still ss gots to go.5thss a bunch of traitors and probably holocaust deniers click.The same with the 4th nederland and 10th nordland,traitors all bye bye.
12thss I'll get to them when witw comes out,bunch of fanatical hitler worshipping punks,you just wait you'll get yours.
Let's see...commanders,won't have to face von Leeb or Manstein 'cause they supported Hitlers commissar order,bullet in the back of the head for them.
But then again we would'nt be playing at all because in playing the axis you would be role-playing for Hitler.Like it or not you are the supreme commander when playing either side.
So lets try acw..naw,won't work because if you took the souths side you'd be defending slavery and if i took the souths side you'd say i was a neo-confederate who supported slavery and secceccion.
So lets just play a good game of chess..but then again if I took the WHITE side,s**t can't win for losing.
As you can divulge{sorry}figure I don't like being called a neo-nazi by a pseudo-intellectuall{sorry look it up}
You can respond but "speak to the hand 'cause the ears ain't listening".You've said enough and I think I deserve an apology for your gross miss-interpretation{another big word sorry}of my Mein Kampf post.

You are beating a dead horse. Some people don't understand that to avoid future mistakes you have to know of and understand past evils. PC people are like a doctor trying to cure a plague over the phone. Don't want to get too close, it might be catching.

You're right, some people are so PC they're beyond redemption and belief. I hate to think what Reconvet must think of me, I'm a raving Neo-Nazi as not only do I own and have read Leon Degrelles book I've also read those written by, amongst others, Kurt 'Panzer' Meyer, and Otto Weidinger, but I'm also a Neo-Fascist as I have read and own Benito Mussolini's "The doctrine of Fascism".On the other hand I'm a raving Communist as I own and have read not only Karl Marx's 'Communist Manifesto' but Chairman Mao Tse-Tung's 'Little Red Book'.

Maybe, just maybe, I'm seriously interested in history, both it's good points and it's bad, but then I can't be that sort of person as it doesn't exist in 'the world according to Reconvet'.

How is that book BTW? I have been thinking about picking that one up and giving it a shot...

(in reply to Steelers708)

Post #: 117

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 9:07:49 PM

Lrfss

Posts: 349
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

Here's a good book that some may like by "Gerd Niepold" Battle for White Russia, The destruction of Army Group Center-June 1944" I bought this one in like 1987-88 IIRC for a reasonable price, it seems now you can't touch it for less than U.S. $250.00-350.00 range...crazy!

(in reply to Lrfss)

Post #: 118

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/8/2011 11:00:42 PM

Reconvet

Posts: 355
Joined: 1/17/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
Has anyone read his book about the eastern front?I know he was an unrepentant nazi ...
... Interestingly Hitler stated that if he was to have a son he would like him to be like Degrelle!

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
... I don't like being called a neo-nazi ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
... You've said enough and I think I deserve an apology ...

Apology? That's hilarious.

Read what you posted, there's hardly room for misinterpretation there. You just got what you deserved, buddy. You open a thread dealing with an unrepentant nazi, throw in a Hitler quote allegedly praising this guy? Come on, admit you admire both of these creatures and out yourself...

As for PC: When fans of mass murderers of whatever colour crawl out of their holes I get into combat mode. It's one thing to take the path of historical research, looking for facts and offering insights illuminating why things happened the way they did, and it's totally something else to worship mass murderers and seek a platform to pursue your ideological agenda. Whoever gives covering fire for the latter puts himself in the same dirty corner...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelers708
You're right, some people are so PC they're beyond redemption and belief. I hate to think what Reconvet must think of me, I'm a raving Neo-Nazi as not only do I own and have read Leon Degrelles book I've also read those written by, amongst others, Kurt 'Panzer' Meyer, and Otto Weidinger, but I'm also a Neo-Fascist as I have read and own Benito Mussolini's "The doctrine of Fascism".
On the other hand I'm a raving Communist as I own and have read not only Karl Marx's 'Communist Manifesto' but Chairman Mao Tse-Tung's 'Little Red Book'.

@Steelers708: Reading all these books might have put you in a position to recognize where shameless propaganda can lead. You defending a neo means that your lecture didn't teach you a damn thing...

_____________________________

The biggest threat for mankind is ignorance.

(in reply to barkman44)

Post #: 119

RE: Leon Degrelle - 4/9/2011 1:14:08 AM

Steelers708

Posts: 138
Joined: 12/7/2010
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
Has anyone read his book about the eastern front?I know he was an unrepentant nazi ...
... Interestingly Hitler stated that if he was to have a son he would like him to be like Degrelle!

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
... I don't like being called a neo-nazi ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45
... You've said enough and I think I deserve an apology ...

Apology? That's hilarious. Read what you posted, there's hardly room for misinterpretation there. You just got what you deserved, buddy. You open a thread dealing with an unrepentant nazi, throw in a Hitler quote allegedly praising this guy? Come on, admit you admire both of these creatures and out yourself...

As for PC: When fans of mass murderers of whatever colour crawl out of their holes I get into combat mode. It's one thing to take the path of historical research, looking for facts and offering insights illuminating why things happened the way they did, and it's totally something else to worship mass murderers and seek a platform to pursue your ideological agenda. Whoever gives covering fire for the latter puts himself in the same dirty corner...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelers708
You're right, some people are so PC they're beyond redemption and belief. I hate to think what Reconvet must think of me, I'm a raving Neo-Nazi as not only do I own and have read Leon Degrelles book I've also read those written by, amongst others, Kurt 'Panzer' Meyer, and Otto Weidinger, but I'm also a Neo-Fascist as I have read and own Benito Mussolini's "The doctrine of Fascism".
On the other hand I'm a raving Communist as I own and have read not only Karl Marx's 'Communist Manifesto' but Chairman Mao Tse-Tung's 'Little Red Book'.

@Steelers708: Reading all these books might have put you in a position to recognize where shameless propaganda can lead. You defending a neo means that your lecture didn't teach you a damn thing...

So let's examine Barkorn's original post.

"Has anyone read his book about the eastern front?I know he was an unrepentant nazi but like Rudel you can't discount his bravery and fighting elan."

Simple enough question, admits Degrelle was an unrepentant Nazi, but doesn't discount his personal bravery. I don't see any pro nazi sentiment there, and I wouldn't question the personal bravery of any individual (no matter which side thsy were on) who fought on the Eastern Front.

"My favorite excerpt is his story of when they had been in position for a fairly long length of time and the bucket of the well they were using came loose and fell into the well. So the got a hook and instead of pulling up the bucket the pulled up a rotting russian corpse,his matter of fact statement"We'd been drinking him for weeks"brings into stark contrast what life was like back then.

So he qoutes his favourite excerpt from the book which includes a direct quote from Degrelle. Again I fail to see where Barkorn shows any pro nazi sympathy or sentiment, the excerpt and quote from Degrelle just shows the inhuman side of the war nothing more, nothing less.

"A good read have read it 3 times"

Of course having never read it yourself you're not in a position to judge it's merits one way or the other. Taken in context it is a good read and I fail to see why anyone who reads it must by your warped thinking be a neo-nazi.

"Interestingly Hitler stated that if he was to have a son he would like him to be like Degrelle! "

Well another quote that is widely attributed to Hitler about what he is supposed to have thought about Degrelle, again I fail to see why anyone mentioning this is assumed to be a neo-nazi.

As for me, I do know where shameless propaganda can lead, but I also realise that there are PC zealots out there who have there own agenda which precludes people from finding these things out and thinking for themselves, and those who dare to contradict the PC zealots by thinking for themselves are tarred with a brush, be it neo-nazi, communist or in religous terms they are all going to hell.

I'm sorry to be blunt but why don't you just take you pissant small minded control freak attitude and crawl back under the rock you came from. Failing that you can always take a leaf out of Hitlers book, and burn any books that your PC mind deems unfit for human consumption. Pun intended.

PS I also have a book on the Boer War which mentions the concentration camps set up by the British leading to 40,000 Boer deaths and an unknown number of Native black deaths, also currently before the courts here in the UK is the case of survivors of the Mau Mau rebellion who are suing the British Goverment for compensation regarding their detention, torture and in cases death, in detention camps during the rebellion. Maybe I should consider emigrating as I wouldn't want my taxes to go to a goverment that not only could sanction, but actively oversee these events, if i was to follow your way of thinking that is.

(in reply to Reconvet)

Post #: 120