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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> Tactics for Newbs

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Tactics for Newbs - 4/14/2011 11:09:51 PM

Slarty

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After a fair amount of reading and some messing about with the tutorial, I thought I had a good basic grasp of the game and that I ought to try the road to Leningrad scenario with me playing the Axis against the computer to get a feel for larger scale operations.

So I powered up the game and contemplated army group north nestled into the bottom left of the playable area. 58 units of Infantry, armour, security divs, FBD's, airbases and all manner of different levels of HQ all crammed into 34 hexes and I realised that the issue I faced was not understanding the rules but understanding what was a good move and what was a bad move.

Where to break through and in how many places? Which units should be moved in which directions? How should the security divisions be employed? Should units be broken down? Should the the focus be to encircle or race forward?

Another issue was how to keep the non-motorised infantry divisions close enough to their own motorised corp HQ's and those corp HQ's close enough to their army HQ's whilst gaining as much ground as possible? And are HQ's and air bases safe on their own or should they be stacked with combat units?

Would anyone be able to give me some rules of thumb to get me off the ground?

Post #: 1

RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/14/2011 11:17:12 PM

Mynok

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First thing you might try doing is reading some AAR's and see what other people did. I found that to be the best initial learning tool.

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/14/2011 11:58:55 PM

Klydon

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Mynok pretty much hit it on the head and I would point out some of the sticky threads in this forum should be helpful.

In answer to some of your questions:

1. The general school of thought for AGN right now is speed, more speed and faster speed after that as far as trying to advance as quickly as possible. In some areas of the front, it is good to do the big encirclements and trap as many Russian forces as possible. not so for AGN, which has a heavy press for time. Some goals for your forces should be the capture of the two coastal ports, capture of Riga and breaching the major river to the east all on the first turn.

2. Command points are very limited in scenarios, but what you can do early is to reattach infantry units that are under the two panzer corps to infantry corps in either 16th or 18th army. Another good move is to put the SS motorized division under LVI panzer corps. (Von Manstein is the commander and is one of the best in the game. He has only two mechanized divisions to start the game with, so adding the SS division to his corps is a good move imo).

3. Security units can help hold pockets in the very early going, but should be put in the cities for garrison duty to help cut down on the partisans. I have a tendency to ignore this in the short scenarios at the start of the game. You may want to practice denying yourself their use as they won't likely be as active in the campaign game.

4. Air units you want to do all your bombing/air transport before you move them up. Obviously, you don't want to have them get run over either. I generally keep them 3-4 hexes away if I am not stacking a combat unit with them. The Russians generally can't get into German territory that deep in 1941. Corps HQ's generally go on a combat unit so they will be within 5 hexes of their units (units that report to the corps HQ will be blue if in range and red if not).

5. Not a huge fan of splitting divisions, but there are times and places to do it. Takes practice on the timing. Just remember that regiments do not advance as well in enemy territory and that it strains your command structure (a division counts as 2 against a corps 8 point limit while broken down it will count for 3 against the 8 point limit).

Good luck and welcome aboard!

(in reply to Mynok)

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/15/2011 7:24:13 PM

Slarty

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Thanks for your responses guys, I will have a look around the AAR's and keep the points mentioned in mind.

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/17/2011 8:24:15 AM

Encircled

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From: Northern England
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The Road to Leningrad tutorial is a "must"

After you've had a go at that, then look around the AAR's

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/17/2011 9:11:05 AM

runyan99

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Klotzen, nicht Kleckern!

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/23/2011 10:07:04 PM

Slarty

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great game although I'm just starting up the north face of the learning curve. A few more questions about my first attempt at the road to Leningrad scenario (currently in progress). First a bit of background to my thinking:
Plan A was to simply attack and capture Leningrad as fast as possible, but being a noob I was not able to drive those panzers up the map fast enough. So by turn 7 I had the whole of the red army and their dog sat in and around Leningrad digging and building forts for all they were worth. So I changed to plan B - maybe just cut all of the rail lines in and they would be easier to beat. I took a bit of a risk and managed to cut all the lines, but the Russians were not impressed and worse still as it turned out, all of the Red Army was not in Leningrad after all and more than a dozen Russian units materialised out of thin air leaving 8th Panzer surrounded. So Plan C relieve 8th Panzer at all costs! and keep those rail lines cut. See map (doh! how do you post images here?)

Not well executed nodoubt, but any thoughts about this strategy? If carried out properly would it work? Or could the Russians supply the city and all those millions of men cross country through the forests?
Three other general questions:
Is it possible to provide a fighter escort for air drop supply missions and if so how?
What elements of air power can/should I take control of and what can/should be left to the AI?
I often have the rules pdf and/or the forum open when I am playing the game as I like to cross reference things, but all to often when I move the mouse to select one of these the map goes into rapid scroll mode and I end up in Magnitogorsk which is inconvenient to say the least as I end up scrolling all over the place to get back, is there any way to stop this?

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Post #: 7

RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/23/2011 11:54:41 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slarty
I often have the rules pdf and/or the forum open when I am playing the game as I like to cross reference things, but all to often when I move the mouse to select one of these the map goes into rapid scroll mode and I end up in Magnitogorsk which is inconvenient to say the least as I end up scrolling all over the place to get back, is there any way to stop this?

Instead of trying to click on it to change apps just ALT-Tab to the app you want to go to.

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Post #: 8

RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/24/2011 1:13:32 AM

Peltonx

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There are 3 small ports east of Leningrad you have to take, if you take them then Leningrad is out of supply. The city should fall in 3 or 4 turns.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 4/24/2011 2:33:30 AM >

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/24/2011 2:15:09 AM

Slarty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

There are 3 small ports east of Leningrad you have to take, if you take them then Leningrad is out of supply. The city hole should fall in 3 or 4 turns.

So cutting off Leningrad's rail links is not enough as the Russians can supply their city through the forest to those 3 ports and then across the lake? Or in my case through the forest all the way to Leningrad (as I have not reached the southern shore of the lake yet)? Do the Russians need to use the railways for supply at all or can they just trace any route they want across forest / marsh?

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Post #: 10

RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/24/2011 2:47:42 AM

PeeDeeAitch

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The open rail line, free of zocs, allows factory evacuation. The ports supply Leningrad. Of interest, the port town just east of Leningrad (Osinovets) is where all the supplies come from, take this (the backdoor) and the city will fall. The eastern end of the Neva is the slowest to fortify...

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/24/2011 3:03:28 AM

Peltonx

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As long as a unit is withen 25 hexs of a rail head they are in supply. Another 5 hexs can be added to that. Say I corps is 25 hexs from the end of a rail line. The 1st inf div in the I corp can be withen 5 hexs of the HQ for a total of 30 hexs. This is a very very inportant point to remember as the german player.

So from Leningrad to one of the 3 ports, then 25 hexs to a rail head. The line of supply must be though red controled hexs of course.

Also once the city is cut off they can do air drops, make sure you move your fighters to withen 4 or 5 hexs of the city.

Also you dont have to take the city to win the game. Check the victory locations. Generally vs a human player your not going to take the city, but you can win a minor victory taking other citys.

Once you play all the smaller games and get to the 41 - 45 game you can move division around. Which will make taking Leningrad much easyer.

You should be able to take Riga the first turn and all your mech units should be on the other side of the major river. Also don't waste troops on the ports next to the baltic. Just 2 secrity divs an one other will do just find. Make sure your reconning with your planes before you move any troops. AI will do it for you. I then do some extra recon in the areas of my panzer attacks.

4 divisions should screen from the bottom of the map to the river. The rest of your inf punch the lines open and move north towards Riga.

Turn 2 you should have atleast 1 div across the river below Pskov vs computer. Inf keep moving up. Your 2 panzer HQs get next to the Pskov river.

Turn 3 the tanks open a bridge head, but stay withen 5 hexs of your HQs. once the tanks are done moving do a supply build up. Inf should be close to the river. Send 3 divs north towards Talmin.

Turn 4 your tanks and inf punch a hole north toward leningrad or east around lake Ilman. The reds can't defend both good.

Once you can do this then you have a basic idea of how things will work for the germans, but if you really want to help yourself out. Play human on human. This will give you a great idea of what your up agianst.

Infantry are just as important or more important then the panzers, they should be the units making the holes in the enemy lines.

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Post #: 12

RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/24/2011 7:38:15 PM

Slarty

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Thanks, for the advice. So it would appear that my strategy would not work as the Russians can supply the city through the woods. Although they can't move factories, the cross country route has to be less than 30 hexes and axis controled hexes prevent tracing of supply.

I think I will play this scenario out and then try it again including all the hints and tips, I'm sure it improve my game a lot.

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Post #: 13

RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/24/2011 9:40:13 PM

Slarty

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OK so now I have another issue. I'm tring to do some fuel air drops but only managed 36 tons from 2 units the rest don't want to join in! Any ideas what the problem might be?

It's the start of a new turn so no airbases or air units have moved.
The airbases are within 5 hexes of their HQ
The airbases are within 6 hexes of the units they are trying to supply and have 50 ready JU88A's
There's also 41 JU52's just 13 hexes away
Niether the airbase or the unit being supplied is north of Leningrad and the air base is in supply and not isolated.

What else do I need to check/think about?

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/25/2011 6:55:34 AM

randallw

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Air drops can be made day or night; available units for whichever attempt won't include air units on the other setting.

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 4/27/2011 5:16:50 PM

Slarty

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Thanks I hadn't thought of that I will add it to the growing list of things to check. I think I worked it out in the end - none of the groupen would fly because none of them had more than 50% strength so they were grounded by my air doctrine setting.

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 5/4/2011 3:11:43 PM

Redmarkus5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slarty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

There are 3 small ports east of Leningrad you have to take, if you take them then Leningrad is out of supply. The city hole should fall in 3 or 4 turns.

So cutting off Leningrad's rail links is not enough as the Russians can supply their city through the forest to those 3 ports and then across the lake? Or in my case through the forest all the way to Leningrad (as I have not reached the southern shore of the lake yet)? Do the Russians need to use the railways for supply at all or can they just trace any route they want across forest / marsh?

LOL

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 5/9/2011 9:23:28 AM

56ajax

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Get your units attached to Panzer corps to over run airfields; that way if there is any fuel captured it goes to where it is need and not to some Inf Corps which already has fuel at 200%...

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 5/9/2011 6:42:50 PM

Slarty

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Now you mention it johntoml56 that sounds like a very good idea. I had noticed that there was the odd ton or two of fuel to be hoovered up during overruns but as you say its not realy needed by the infantry.

I just finished my second Leningrad game against the AI and won decisively thanks to the tips given on this fourum. So thanks everyone. Seems like you have to go all out to get to Lodeynoe pole and then then its just a giant mopping up excercise.

One more question (well two) do the Finns use the same railway gauge as the Germans and do they have any rail conversion capacity?

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 5/9/2011 10:48:09 PM

Klydon

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In this game, the Finns use the same rail net as the Germans do and they do have their own (limited) rail repair units.

In reality, they had the same broad gauge as used by the Russians.

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RE: Tactics for Newbs - 5/10/2011 2:39:47 AM

Slarty

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Klydon, interesting. I wonder why all of the Finnish lines have to be converted in the game if they used the same gauge as the russians?

Getting back to tactics, now that I have experienced the Finns and AGN I was thinking about trying one of the AGS scenarios before trying the full campaign game any tips concerning AGS? I hear that the Romainians etc are very different to handel than the Finns.

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 21