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What's Not to Like?

 
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What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 3:57:12 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		A few things.

Graphics, we kept the graphics down to a level to allow people with lesser computers to play the game. Trust me the model makers started out with high poly models and trimmed them down to our specs. Maybe some high poly models will be released for those with Cray like setups.

NO AA. I could make the excuse that it isn't realistic and AA never hit any planes anyway. Truth is that Koios didn't put it in and we didn't take the time to add it.

NO Destructible Anything or Craters. Same as above. There is some debate as to whether bridges and buildings can be destroyed by artillery or engineers in the time frame of our battles but I get that some people just like to blow stuff up for fun.

Stay tuned, you never know what we will do next. You didn't expect PCO either.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."
Post #: 1
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 6:42:32 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I think the level of detail for all the game objects (evaluating just from the Demo so far) is just right and balanced. Have all graphic options set at max, although with 1024 x 768 SR on my vintage 17" CRT. (Athlon II 250, 2 GBs RAM and NVidia GT240, WinXP)

With maps no larger than 2 x 2km, it doesn´t make much sense to have AA (and maybe AC at all), since ground forces are so close together, that neither side would dare to call in CAS. Maybe an opening bombardement before units actually start to move, would be ok at circumstances. Even more so, the same goes for true AA (unless in ground attack role), which is usually placed well behind the forward frontline, to protect bridges, supply dumps, HQs and the like.

That would be my critics for the 1944 Demo scenario, where the Sturmoviks came down upon my Stugs, while engaging russian armor at 3-400m. The russians were rather better known (and feared) for their behind frontline "activities". But I know, having AC in the Demo scen is just for showing CAS "in action".

After seeing massive buildings reduced to knothing by few medium calibre HE shells in the CMBN Demo, I´m not really sad that things like that do not happen in PCO. I´d like to see (live) damaged stuff and craters in future PC though.

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Post #: 2
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 6:51:42 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

A few things.

All along, the big deals were the absent art for the vehicles and good editors. Both of those items appear to have been addressed. The game always played well, regardless of whether or not the church-going segment of the population were unwilling to read the rules and get a handle on its mechanics. No one is blinder than he who will not see.


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Post #: 3
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 1:30:09 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		While AAA and CAS are in the game together isn't so much of a big deal as the AAA being applied in a ground role. Those 20mm Flak and 20mm Flakvierling were deadly against ground targets as well.

Try the scenario Their Toughest Battle to see the full effects of CAS in PCO.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 4
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 10:46:11 PM   
Pillar

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/21/2011
Status: offline 		So far I have found the combat model to be very, very bad.  :(   If you guys would like some input and advice on that, and seriously intend to change the game (not just being curious or feeling defensive pls) then I will explain, just drop me an email or whatever.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 5
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 10:47:48 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Very, very bad how?

We've already seriously changed the game; so, I think we've already proved both our intentions, and willingness, to make changes to the game. But that we listen to those with ideas other than our own as well.

Being defensive with blinders on isn't the same as explaining why things were made to work like they do. Of course there is a reason for why things work the way they do in the game. NOTHING was changed on a whim without discussions first.

So if you want to discuss how you think we can improve the game let us know. Here is okay or if you want any of us can be reached with either PM or email.

Thanks for your willingness to discuss what you think may make he game better.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 5/13/2011 11:38:43 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 6
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 11:35:18 PM   
Pillar

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/21/2011
Status: offline 		Awesome, I'll drop you a line when I get some time

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Post #: 7
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/13/2011 11:37:36 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		That'll work.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Pillar)
Post #: 8
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 6:40:45 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Still dabbling with the demo and didn't buy PCO yet. But one thing I noticed is, that as trade-off for the non-destructible environment vehicles lack of a decent collision engine. Watching tanks driving with no delay through trees simply doesn't feel right. Also a subsequently delivering of higher infantry polygon models would be appreciated, as not everybody is playing on a P4 anymore. BF raised the system requirements with CM:SF already in return for better graphics. That was like 4 years ago and it obviously got accepted.



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Post #: 9
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 6:58:17 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Each company decides what they will accept for machine specs. Matrix decides that for us. We just go by the standards they set.

Driving through trees can have some interesting side effects. Like some of the smaller ones getting knocked down.

The collision avoidance code was tweaked at least 3 different times. While it's not perfect it's a lot better than it was.

Good Hunting.

MR




_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 10
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 7:12:19 AM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

....Watching tanks driving with no delay through trees simply doesn't feel right. ...



You should be seeing delays when vehicles move through woods, and it should very by the density of the woods (light, med, or heavy woods). And as MR said, depending on the vehicle and the particular tree, some will get knocked over (you won't see that in the Tutorial scenario, but you will in the Novy scenario).

thanks
rick

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Post #: 11
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 1:46:45 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow
Watching tanks driving with no delay through trees simply doesn't feel right.


We've got a video you should see... but woods do slow tanks down. Light woods don't slow them down much and I'm guessing that's what you were seeing.

quote:

Also a subsequently delivering of higher infantry polygon models would be appreciated, as not everybody is playing on a P4 anymore. BF raised the system requirements with CM:SF already in return for better graphics. That was like 4 years ago and it obviously got accepted.


Our market research indicates that for the next release, an increase in system requirements should work. With that said, while we will be making visual improvements with each release as we all love what those add to immersion and fun, our main focus remains on gameplay improvements.

Regards,

- Erik




_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 12
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 2:18:58 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We've got a video you should see... but woods do slow tanks down. Light woods don't slow them down much and I'm guessing that's what you were seeing.


Well, that was what I noticed in the tutorial. Not really a show stopper for me, but I wanted to mention it anyway.

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Post #: 13
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 2:25:51 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		I'm absolutely loving this game, it has been a long time since I got "into" a game! I was worried about the download time, but mine took only 15 minutes. Great job Matrix and everyone on the Panzer Command team! Thank you!

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Post #: 14
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 2:26:57 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		We try to find a balance between gameplay and realism. We could have AFVs slow to a crawl in woods but that might frustrate impatient people like me.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 15
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/14/2011 4:10:35 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We've got a video you should see... but woods do slow tanks down. Light woods don't slow them down much and I'm guessing that's what you were seeing.


Well, that was what I noticed in the tutorial. Not really a show stopper for me, but I wanted to mention it anyway.


Physics apply to vehicle movement in the game. Not only through trees but also on hill slopes, etc.

This is not just a game where you give an order and the unit moves off at full speed no matter what the terrain. We worked hard at getting the physics of the game as close to right as we got the gun data/armour plating data right.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 16
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 5:27:29 PM   
Firebri


Posts: 291
Joined: 3/9/2011
From: Bristol
Status: offline 		Are there any examples of high poly graphics, anywhere on the forum ?

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Post #: 17
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 5:31:12 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		All the screen shots we took were of the high  poly models.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Firebri)
Post #: 18
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 5:39:01 PM   
Firebri


Posts: 291
Joined: 3/9/2011
From: Bristol
Status: offline 		Will it be a mod or a patch that will allow higher graphics ?

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Post #: 19
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 5:44:44 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		The engine can handle it up to a point. For the release we kept it low. Modders can do whatever they want as long as the test it and it doesn't crash the game.

_____________________________

Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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Post #: 20
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 5:52:02 PM   
vils

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		EDIT: Sorry. After turning local computer location from Sweden to English (USA) game now runs fine!

i dislike the fact that game is as usual rushed out to store without proper testing... it freezes every battle for me (and pretty much everybody else too?)

A tip: At purchase button, please add text with a word of warning that game might not work on high end computers..



< Message edited by vils -- 5/16/2011 9:30:12 AM >

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Post #: 21
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 5:53:43 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Vils,

quote:

ORIGINAL: vils
i dislike the fact that game is as usual rushed out to store without proper testing... it freezes every battle for me (and pretty much everybody else too?)


We did not rush this release at all and it does not freeze in every battle for us. If that's happening for you, please post some information for us in the Tech Support sub-forum so that we can figure out what's going on and fix it ASAP! We want your game experience to be as smooth as ours is.

quote:


A tip: At purchase button, please add text with a word of warning that game might not work on high end computers..


Er... it works better on high end computers, why would we say that?

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Post #: 22
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 5:54:29 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This game has had 3 years of testing. There is no possible way to test it on every machine configuration.

Post your concerns in the Tech Support section where they can address them for you and get the game running on your machine.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 5/15/2011 5:55:57 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to vils)
Post #: 23
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 6:01:37 PM   
republicofpepsi

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 10/14/2006
Status: offline 		Would it be possible to put the high end models in the members area downloads at some point?

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Post #: 24
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 6:27:13 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		That's the plan.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to republicofpepsi)
Post #: 25
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 7:29:02 PM   
Pillar

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/21/2011
Status: offline 		Sent

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Post #: 26
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/15/2011 7:50:31 PM   
Jacko


Posts: 403
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vils

i dislike the fact that game is as usual rushed out to store without proper testing... it freezes every battle for me (and pretty much everybody else too?)

A tip: At purchase button, please add text with a word of warning that game might not work on high end computers..




Nope, didn't see any ice yet.


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Post #: 27
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/16/2011 12:08:22 AM   
JMass


Posts: 2364
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerbri
Are there any examples of high poly graphics, anywhere on the forum ?


Older models have less polys but we added some to more common vehicles (for example, the Pz IIIs series more detailed now) but new models have more polys, anyway some compromises must be done, also because the question is: is it better to make new models or add polys to old ones? Speaking of textures, PCOWS-PCK models was skinned with 512x512 dds files but now new models (and some old tanks) have 1024x1024 files. Obviously mods with high end models are welcome!

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Post #: 28
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/16/2011 5:23:16 AM   
Mobius


Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vils

i dislike the fact that game is as usual rushed out to store without proper testing... it freezes every battle for me (and pretty much everybody else too?)

A tip: At purchase button, please add text with a word of warning that game might not work on high end computers..


Would you be using a Sweden/Finland keyboard?


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All your Tanks are Belong to us!
panzer

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Post #: 29
RE: What's Not to Like? - 5/16/2011 6:47:27 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline 		Well if there is one thing I do not care for that would be the infantry close combat/house clearing. Am I correct in that infantry cannot assault a structure with enemy troops in it? As it stands the units must stop and shoot it out until the enemy either is destroyed or leaves the structure. Very anti climatic and an area that I think needs looked at.

Also, I'm not sure why I cannot target area fire at buildings that my troops can clearly see. Most of the times it tells me that I cannot see the building with my LOS tool or target it even when I am very close with a clear and obvious line of sight.

Or maybe I am missing something?

mo reb


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Post #: 30
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