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Mud attrition WAD?

 
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Mud attrition WAD? - 5/15/2011 5:55:37 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline 		I've seen up to 60k loses for attrition in mud turns in 42 for axis. The 2nd mud turn was 54k. I'm fairly sure the axis troops were not loses 60k troops during a week of rain and mud. THIS AMOUNT HAS NO COMBAT LOSES. So can somebody please give me a reason why WitE is taking such an unhistorical and IMO unrealistic approach to attrition in mud? I'm really concerned with so many of these game mechanics that have no documentation to verify what is going on? We're losing sight of reality of these period of warfare and just adding things to play balance?

Like to see somebody explain this one to me. Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/15/2011 6:48:53 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I'm not sure if front line attrition is reduced during mud turns. However, please keep in mind that a lot of what happens each logistics phase is that damaged elements are checked and many of them can be disbanded and sent back to the production pool, destroyed, or cannabalized by taking two damaged elements and end up with 1 ready element. All of these "logistics" operations are based on the number of damaged elements already in the units and factors such as the supply and support levels of the units. It's possible that during mud the supply situation could be worse for these units (if far from the rail), and this could lead to lots of logistical problems that lead to what get counted as casualties. I would expect that mud would make things more difficult and that more things would break down and/or be written off. I think it's a fair question re front line attrition and whether it is and/or should be reduced during mud (less combat, however the combat that happens could be more difficult and lead to more equipment losses not to mention just normal operations on the line being more difficult).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/15/2011 7:11:36 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		This isn't exactly what happens during mud (or inclement weather turns generally.)

Attrition per se doesn't increase. However, your replacement situation gets worse and fewer replacements seem to reach units unless they are well to the rear, set to refit, and on or adjacent to a rail line.

Units on the front line in inclement weather can gradually drop in strength due to replacement starvation, especially in areas where supply is sketchy thanks to terrain and lack of nearby rails.

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RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/15/2011 7:42:23 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Sickness, accidents, disease, and frostbite. There were at least 400k cases alone in the German Army in Russia that had to be evacuated out of the Army Group rear areas to receive care for these cases from June 1941 through January 1942.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

I've seen up to 60k loses for attrition in mud turns in 42 for axis. The 2nd mud turn was 54k. I'm fairly sure the axis troops were not loses 60k troops during a week of rain and mud. THIS AMOUNT HAS NO COMBAT LOSES. So can somebody please give me a reason why WitE is taking such an unhistorical and IMO unrealistic approach to attrition in mud? I'm really concerned with so many of these game mechanics that have no documentation to verify what is going on? We're losing sight of reality of these period of warfare and just adding things to play balance?

Like to see somebody explain this one to me. Thanks.



< Message edited by el hefe -- 5/15/2011 7:43:36 PM >

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(in reply to kirkgregerson)
Post #: 4
RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/15/2011 10:07:09 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

Sickness, accidents, disease, and frostbite. There were at least 400k cases alone in the German Army in Russia that had to be evacuated out of the Army Group rear areas to receive care for these cases from June 1941 through January 1942.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

I've seen up to 60k loses for attrition in mud turns in 42 for axis. The 2nd mud turn was 54k. I'm fairly sure the axis troops were not loses 60k troops during a week of rain and mud. THIS AMOUNT HAS NO COMBAT LOSES. So can somebody please give me a reason why WitE is taking such an unhistorical and IMO unrealistic approach to attrition in mud? I'm really concerned with so many of these game mechanics that have no documentation to verify what is going on? We're losing sight of reality of these period of warfare and just adding things to play balance?

Like to see somebody explain this one to me. Thanks.





Sure, but I think the normal attrition of about 15-20k a week accounts for this. Also, I did loose about 700-800k in the 3 blizzard months. So when you give me a # of 400k for "Sickness, accidents, disease, and frostbite" from June to the END of January (2 months of blizzard). You've just convinced me that the attrition rate in general for WitE is really way off and under close examination will be seen to be flawed in a realistic and historical sense. If it's for play balance of a GAME then that's another argument.

Also, what people seem to forget is your comparing my logistic situation to the actual historical situation. I will argue that my situation is 10x better than historical. My troops all all in supply and basically static during the last two mud turns and I have an excess of vehicles in my motor pool to delivery supplies. THERE WERE NO Soviet attacks as well.

So to lose 60k men from attrition in these conditions IS BOGUS. Sorry, but it just is. Not going going to play the apologist for WitE fans. I'm going to give it some tough love in the hopes these obviously flaws in attrition are corrected in some future patch.

(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 5
RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/16/2011 12:59:00 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		How many men were in unready (damaged) elements at the start of the turn? A lot of the "attrition" that you are seeing is from combat that has already happened but that you haven't fully "paid for". It's part of the system of ready/damaged elements.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to kirkgregerson)
Post #: 6
RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/16/2011 2:10:43 AM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Yes that could be it

< Message edited by abulbulian -- 5/16/2011 2:13:10 AM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 7
RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/16/2011 2:12:57 AM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

How many men were in unready (damaged) elements at the start of the turn? A lot of the "attrition" that you are seeing is from combat that has already happened but that you haven't fully "paid for". It's part of the system of ready/damaged elements.


Thanks for clearing this up a bit! Glad to see the attention that WiTE forums get from the big dogs.


< Message edited by abulbulian -- 5/16/2011 2:13:25 AM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 8
RE: Mud attrition WAD? - 5/16/2011 2:14:54 AM   
kirkgregerson

 

Posts: 497
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, I had some combat in the last few snow turns. Could explain the loses being delayed then. As long as I didn't pay for it twice.

Thanks for shedding some light on this issue for me!

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 9
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