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RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out!

 
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RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/12/2011 12:39:32 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		Having played only for about 5 hours I'd enjoy it more if:
  • The game didn't crash so much
  • There was a disable switch for auto-saving cause GB are being chewed up pretty quickly.
  • These same saves are unable to be reloaded after a CTD. Locking my machine.
  • The economic information was displayed in a better way. Inputs and outputs are stated but having to locate what overall is using what - is just a pain. (And that's coming from a dedicated witp-AE player)
  • A better manual and in-game tutorial.
  • A more complex economic model - not complex based on getting the relevant data from the UI or working it out manually (as it seems now) but on the game mechanics. And I will say that many ppl will think the game trade and commerce mechanics are complex enough at present - I don't.

    Having said most of this I am enjoying the game but am going to shelve it until a few patches have appeared. It has potential but so far I've enjoyed Vicky I (not II) more. I hope that sentiment can be reversed over the coming months. Still for $20- it's a good way to support another grand strategy game; I'd like to see more find their way onto the market.

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    • Post #: 61
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/12/2011 1:08:01 AM   
    Rosseau

     

    Posts: 2757
    Joined: 9/13/2009
    Status: offline     		Not a sterling review. I bought it, but will wait for the patches. Not as if we don't have other games to play. It seems many people prefer Vicky I over II. I guess I was just seduced by the better graphics and higher resolutions 

    (in reply to n01487477)
    Post #: 62
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/12/2011 1:15:28 AM   
    jomni


    Posts: 2827
    Joined: 11/19/2007
    Status: offline     		My biggest problem with the game is that it has so many undocumented shortcut keys without on-screen button / menu equivalents.  Clearly a bad UI design decision. It looks as if they took the old AGEOD operational wargame engine and placed additional economic-country management mechanics, didn't think though the UI segment, and just made shortcut keys instead.

    Having said that, the combat mechanics are great and I only find myself playing the short war scenarios without economic management like previous AGEOD titles.


    < Message edited by jomni -- 6/12/2011 1:27:15 AM >

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    Post #: 63
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/12/2011 2:33:57 AM   
    hgilmer3


    Posts: 530
    Joined: 12/28/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: n01487477

    Having played only for about 5 hours I'd enjoy it more if:
  • The game didn't crash so much
  • There was a disable switch for auto-saving cause GB are being chewed up pretty quickly.
  • These same saves are unable to be reloaded after a CTD. Locking my machine.
  • The economic information was displayed in a better way. Inputs and outputs are stated but having to locate what overall is using what - is just a pain. (And that's coming from a dedicated witp-AE player)
  • A better manual and in-game tutorial.
  • A more complex economic model - not complex based on getting the relevant data from the UI or working it out manually (as it seems now) but on the game mechanics. And I will say that many ppl will think the game trade and commerce mechanics are complex enough at present - I don't.

    Having said most of this I am enjoying the game but am going to shelve it until a few patches have appeared. It has potential but so far I've enjoyed Vicky I (not II) more. I hope that sentiment can be reversed over the coming months. Still for $20- it's a good way to support another grand strategy game; I'd like to see more find their way onto the market.



    • 2 things that I absolutely hate about their games. The supply system and the savegame system. Supply - I wish it was like WITP-AE. I wish it was completely manual. I don't care if that means micromanagement. At least I'd know that my people are getting supplies or if not, then it was definitely my fault.

    I love their philosophy on armies and how they are built from the ground up.

    As for your specific issues. Yes, I have had several CTDs. Yes, I cannot stand how you can't go back and reload a turn.

    One thing you didn't mention that I just learned. Diplomacy isn't being handled very well right now. They are supposed to be adding about 500 events and things in the next patch to fix Diplomacy.

    < Message edited by hgilmer3 -- 6/12/2011 2:41:00 AM >

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    Post #: 64
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/12/2011 2:38:36 AM   
    hgilmer3


    Posts: 530
    Joined: 12/28/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: jomni

    My biggest problem with the game is that it has so many undocumented shortcut keys without on-screen button / menu equivalents.  Clearly a bad UI design decision. It looks as if they took the old AGEOD operational wargame engine and placed additional economic-country management mechanics, didn't think though the UI segment, and just made shortcut keys instead.

    Having said that, the combat mechanics are great and I only find myself playing the short war scenarios without economic management like previous AGEOD titles.



    Ding. +1. I bought the game. I wanted to play the shorter scenarios and not worry as much about empire building. I have Victoria 1 and that was Ok.

    I bought the game, though. I like it. I like the engine. For that reason I'll eventually buy Revolution Under Siege. It was developed with their engine, but was developed by another company. Still - it is another quality product from what I've read and a star in the folder of Aegod engine games.

    I hope they go back to a more War type game though for their next venture. AACW2, HYW, 30YW, WW1. (Yes, I know they have a WW1 game out and also that Rus is basically a WW1 type game, but I want WW1 with the Aegod engine and I want it now!


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    Post #: 65
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/12/2011 2:00:54 PM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		There has been precisely zero crashes and zero freezes on my box. YMMV...

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    Post #: 66
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/12/2011 2:49:54 PM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		Being about six months into my Grand Campaign, I'm quite happy so far (playing France):

    Pros:

    - Tactical combat system (AGEOD's tried and tested engine)
    - Colonial system (I REALLY like the Sphere of Influence/Colonial Penetration mechanic, and the TONS of options)
    - Military building system (nice and easy to use)
    - International Trade system (maybe too simple for some, but I like it)

    Cons:

    - Crisis "poker" (incomprehensible and not inviting, i.e. not something I'm interesting in learning how to use)
    - Manual (Horrible * 10000; provides no helpful data whatsoever)
    - GUI (specifically clicking on provinces to construct improvements and getting the garrisoned military unit time and time again).

    Overall, a solid 75%.

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    Post #: 67
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 7:20:27 AM   
    Arsan

     

    Posts: 409
    Joined: 7/1/2005
    From: Madrid, Spain
    Status: offline
    quote:


    - GUI (specifically clicking on provinces to construct improvements and getting the garrisoned military unit time and time again).



    Hi!

    Cityscapes have to halves. The city itself (lower-right), which will bring you the garrison (military mode), and the industrial half (upper-left) which will open the economic mode. Until i discovered this, going to military mode when i wanted to o to the economic mode also got on my nerves

    Regards

    (in reply to Terminus)
    Post #: 68
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 9:45:46 AM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		Very nice, thanks for the tip!

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    Post #: 69
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 5:43:40 PM   
    fmonster


    Posts: 217
    Joined: 6/16/2003
    From: Cartersville, Ga. USA
    Status: offline     		Just starting my first grand campaign with the USA. Terminus, since you are a couple of years into your France campaign, how do you think replayability will be for this game?


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    Post #: 70
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 5:48:24 PM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		Try about seven months into an 80-year run... I'd suspect replayability would be quite good, since the different nations have different objectives. Besides, if the updates are as comprehensive as rumour says, that'll only be better...

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    Post #: 71
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 10:18:27 PM   
    martok


    Posts: 837
    Joined: 8/30/2004
    Status: offline     		I recall reading somewhere -- hell, maybe it was in this very thread (although I'm too lazy to go back and check) -- that smaller nations will be made playable in subsequent updates, probably a couple at a time. I hope that ends up being the case!




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    (in reply to Terminus)
    Post #: 72
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 11:35:36 PM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		Looks like it, although it's a silly idea IMHO.

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    Post #: 73
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 11:36:34 PM   
    willgamer


    Posts: 902
    Joined: 6/2/2002
    From: Huntsville, Alabama
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Arsan


    quote:


    - GUI (specifically clicking on provinces to construct improvements and getting the garrisoned military unit time and time again).



    Hi!

    Cityscapes have to halves. The city itself (lower-right), which will bring you the garrison (military mode), and the industrial half (upper-left) which will open the economic mode. Until i discovered this, going to military mode when i wanted to o to the economic mode also got on my nerves

    Regards


    More help for you nerves- Ctrl-click to stay in NON-miltary mode regardless of which half of the city you click on.

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    Post #: 74
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 11:39:15 PM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		DINGDING! You is da man!

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    Post #: 75
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/13/2011 11:42:00 PM   
    Ugly Guy

     

    Posts: 274
    Joined: 3/31/2011
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Aces8


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus

    100% agreed. The ability to play any nation in Paradox's games is bogus as a selling point.


    +1 T


    I would disagree. While the playing any nation feature is not there to promote historical outcomes, some of the funnest games I have had with Paradox games have been with smaller nations. Conquering most of the known world with Ragusa in EU2 was a blast, building up India into a superpower in HOI2 was pretty cool, albeit rather easy. Trying to win Vicky as Texas was a failed attempt, but fun nonetheless. It doesn't appeal to everyone, but for those of us that enjoy the challenge of something beyond "let's do a WC with one of the eight playable superpowers" it is a very welcome addition.

    quote:

    And it's turn based...unlike Paradox's very odd continous time idea...in a grand stratgey game...who thought of that?


    Actually I prefer it over the turn based approaches. I think the whole game is more fluid, plus you can always pause if you want to stop real time to issue orders. The combat mechanics are funner in real time, and you have the ability to speed up or slow down play depending on how much is happening. What I hate in turn based games is wasting x-unit of time (whatever a turn signifies) because I happen to be 1 unit of resource shy from being able to build what I have been needing to build.

    But ultimately, turn versus real-time (when real-time is pausable) is a question of scale. The EU series dealt with real-time units of days, which is essentially the same as a turn based game with turn time of 1 day and no need to click "end turn".




    < Message edited by Ugly Guy -- 6/13/2011 11:44:55 PM >

    (in reply to comte)
    Post #: 76
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/14/2011 12:19:50 AM   
    Terminus


    Posts: 41459
    Joined: 4/23/2005
    From: Denmark
    Status: offline     		I would respectfully suggest that instead of undertaking an inevitably half-arsed attempt to introduce minor nations as playable factions, Paradox France should fix the problems the major nations have now.

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    Post #: 77
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/14/2011 8:22:29 PM   
    martok


    Posts: 837
    Joined: 8/30/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus

    Looks like it, although it's a silly idea IMHO.

    So long as it's not measurably detracting from the play experience of the "Big Eight", I see no reason not to do it. Quite a few folks have been clamoring to play nations like Spain, Portugal, Belgium, the Ottomans, etc.


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    Post #: 78
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/14/2011 10:05:39 PM   
    warspite1


    Posts: 41353
    Joined: 2/2/2008
    From: England
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus

    Looks like it, although it's a silly idea IMHO.


    Quite a few folks have been clamoring to play nations like...... Belgium......
    Warspite1

    Why?

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    (in reply to martok)
    Post #: 79
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/14/2011 11:03:44 PM   
    uncc


    Posts: 448
    Joined: 6/1/2002
    From: Virginia, USA
    Status: offline     		fyi: if you're looking for strategy guide info, shortcut keys, etc, one of the beta testers(?) has posted the following:

    Strategy Guide: A general overview of some of the major powers, and game play hints
    Cheat Sheet: A 25 page detailed overview of production, colonization and resources
    Shortcuts: A listing of all PON shortcuts (well, all known ones that is!)

    < Message edited by uncc -- 6/14/2011 11:04:52 PM >

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    Post #: 80
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/15/2011 12:49:14 AM   
    martok


    Posts: 837
    Joined: 8/30/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: warspite1


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus

    Looks like it, although it's a silly idea IMHO.


    Quite a few folks have been clamoring to play nations like...... Belgium......
    Warspite1

    Why?

    I didn't ask them. I just smiled and nodded.



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    Post #: 81
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/15/2011 11:18:21 PM   
    Ugly Guy

     

    Posts: 274
    Joined: 3/31/2011
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: warspite1


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus

    Looks like it, although it's a silly idea IMHO.


    Quite a few folks have been clamoring to play nations like...... Belgium......
    Warspite1

    Why?

    I didn't ask them. I just smiled and nodded.



    Haven't you ever felt the urge to conquer Europe as Belgium?

    (in reply to martok)
    Post #: 82
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/16/2011 6:16:05 AM   
    warspite1


    Posts: 41353
    Joined: 2/2/2008
    From: England
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Ugly Guy


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: warspite1


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus

    Looks like it, although it's a silly idea IMHO.


    Quite a few folks have been clamoring to play nations like...... Belgium......
    Warspite1

    Why?

    I didn't ask them. I just smiled and nodded.



    Haven't you ever felt the urge to conquer Europe as Belgium?
    Warspite1

    Strangely, no, it's never been on my "must do" list.

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    (in reply to Ugly Guy)
    Post #: 83
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/16/2011 10:50:46 AM   
    jomni


    Posts: 2827
    Joined: 11/19/2007
    Status: offline     		Someone in the Paradox forums wanted to play Poland (which gained independence after WWI).
    Go figure.

    < Message edited by jomni -- 6/16/2011 10:51:41 AM >

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    Post #: 84
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/16/2011 4:24:43 PM   
    Ugly Guy

     

    Posts: 274
    Joined: 3/31/2011
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: warspite1


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Ugly Guy


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: warspite1


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Terminus

    Looks like it, although it's a silly idea IMHO.


    Quite a few folks have been clamoring to play nations like...... Belgium......
    Warspite1

    Why?

    I didn't ask them. I just smiled and nodded.



    Haven't you ever felt the urge to conquer Europe as Belgium?
    Warspite1

    Strangely, no, it's never been on my "must do" list.


    Well, I would have to insist Belgians deserve thier chance for a place in the sun as well...

    < Message edited by Ugly Guy -- 6/16/2011 4:25:38 PM >

    (in reply to warspite1)
    Post #: 85
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/17/2011 7:12:50 AM   
    jomni


    Posts: 2827
    Joined: 11/19/2007
    Status: offline     		I see where you're getting at...
    The Belgians make the best guns and they are a particularly cruel colonizer.

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    Post #: 86
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/17/2011 7:58:06 AM   
    comte


    Posts: 2358
    Joined: 2/4/2009
    From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
    Status: offline     		I wish the Belgians were in it as well.

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    (in reply to jomni)
    Post #: 87
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/17/2011 6:25:41 PM   
    Ugly Guy

     

    Posts: 274
    Joined: 3/31/2011
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: jomni

    I see where you're getting at...
    The Belgians make the best guns and they are a particularly cruel colonizer.


    Nah, I don't care about the Belgians in particular, I just think there are a fair amount of gamers out there that enjoy the challenge of trying to guide their favorite minor nation to a place prominence. Enough so that it isn't just a gimmick as some were suggesting.

    (in reply to jomni)
    Post #: 88
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/17/2011 11:27:18 PM   
    martok


    Posts: 837
    Joined: 8/30/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Ugly Guy

    Haven't you ever felt the urge to conquer Europe as Belgium?

    Nah, I'm more of a Dutch aficionado myself.




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    (in reply to Ugly Guy)
    Post #: 89
    RE: Vainglo, er, Pride of Nations demo is out! - 6/18/2011 1:50:32 AM   
    Ugly Guy

     

    Posts: 274
    Joined: 3/31/2011
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: martok


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Ugly Guy

    Haven't you ever felt the urge to conquer Europe as Belgium?

    Nah, I'm more of a Dutch aficionado myself.





    Aren't they the Spanish Netherlands? :p

    (in reply to martok)
    Post #: 90
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