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RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/10/2011 7:09:27 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Andy Karachi is a 6-9 base, so i don't think there's any spoilage anymore. I've placed BNs in all the bases not directly threatened by his bombers (i've already seen entire brigades annihilated by 600 bombers and then pushed back by 4 paras units...better to let him have the dot which is close to the LOD with paras and then annihilate its AF with my 4Es i'd say. The rear bases are all guarded anyway.

I won't use my armoured units near Dehli for the very same reason. He will simply destroy them with his bombers before advancing. I want to defend under my air umbrella or at least where his bombers will have to be heavy escorted in order to conduct an interdict mission against my troops.
Moreover i don't wanna get my armoured units easily cut off by his advance. I'll use them between Multan and Hyderabad, where my air force will still be a factor.

Hopefully when the 9 forts are reached (86% now) supply consumption will be lowered (really hope so)...

August 10,11,12,13 1942

Nothing happened. The usual 600 enemy fighters on sweep (both from the KB - always parked there- and from Surat). No bombing missions.
Think he's ready to send a bombardment TF to Karachi...planning accordingly

Nothing else to report...200 units are counted on the borders...will be bloody!!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 841
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/10/2011 7:50:30 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Are you sending some of your subs with highly aggressive commanders after the KB, in hopes of putting a few fish in one of those CVs?

Also-  what is going on in your game, other than India.  Screenshots, updates, lists, etc...

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 842
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/10/2011 9:03:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I can't wait to see what happens, but I can't believe he'll cross the LOD after waiting this long.  He's blundering around indecisvely.  He ought to have followed the Stonewall Jackson motto:  "When in doubt, do something."

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 843
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 1:18:39 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Sorry for the delay guys but have been rough days at work...

So we arrived at the 18th of August 1942

Rader has achieved some good results with his airfield bombings in the last week. I kept down my fighters but got mauled twice at Hyderabad and Karachi, losing some 60 frames on the ground (no pilots lost luckly). Flak got useless again...i really don't understand this AA behaviour

However the KB remains parked there, 6 hexes south of Karachi. I'm not sending my subs after her cause she's in shallow waters and my subs get mauled by his planes everytime they get closer than 5 hexes.

There have been a couple of naval encounters at Karachi...CL Caledon managed to sink a DD, while i lost another DD which had been badly damaged previously.

In order to cover a big supply TF of 15k i sent in Karachi a SCTF composed of 3 CLs and 3DDs... both TFs have been intercepted and attacked and despite i lost only 3 AKs, all my CLs recieved so many bombs on their decks that are now limping back to Aden with some damages (they should be saved anyway).

He hasn't crossed yet anyway. Troops keep on massing on the LOD border but till now nothing has happened. I'm pretty sure (intel tells me so) that he's still waiting for the "Manila" army to arrive.

In the meanwhile Karachi reached level 9 forts...

In the pacific Jeff, i'm keeping my plans straight. Iwo Jiima and the Gilberts are my targets.
My amphib TFs are loading at PH, while the CVs are moving to attack Marcus and Wake in order to cover my flanks during the upcoming invasions. I want to reduce those islands first, in order to be able to land there and conquest these two outposts before the major landings.
Marcus hasn't been built by the japs so i do not wait any strong opposition. There should only be a base force there (intel tells me so) or probably a naval garrison...however the INF Rgt devoted, supported by 1 tank Bn and one Combat eng Bn should really be enough.

Different thing for Wake...it's a level 3 AF and i bet he has placed Kates and zeros there (one of my subs got spotted by a Kate recently in those waters)...so i'll use the hammer there and will land 2 Marine Rgts, 1 Tank Bn, 1 Combat eng and 2 Artillery units. These little invasions will be supported by 4 BBs, while 4 more BBs will bomb the islands. With no KB around i'm pretty sure things should be easy in this first phase.

Then, when we'll have attracted his attention here (i'm pretty sure he'll send back his naval and air forces from the Marshalls to the Mariannas, we'll land at Tarawa, Abenama and Makin. We'll have to wait to have my 6 CVs back but i'm pretty confident that, with all those airplanes devoted in India (i'm counting something like 2100 enemy a/c in india) he won't have much more than a couple of zero Daitais for the whole region, it won't be difficoult for my 6CVs to cover the invasion.

As soon as these first two objectives will be obtained, we'll regroup, refuel and we'll start the major Iwo Jiima operation.

Tomorrow i'll try to describe in detail the 3 connected operations...


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 844
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 1:32:51 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

however the INF Rgt devoted, supported by 1 tank Bn and one Combat eng Bn should really be enough.


I take it this is your first stab at an amphibious invasion, yes?

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 845
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 1:41:12 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		You mean my first attempt? Yes, cause we aborted the previous amphibious operation in the Gilberts due to the stiff opposition we found (we had only 4 CVs and the fast transports didn't go that well...

I forgot to mention that i'm also trying to exploit the only dot-base Rader has left unconquered in the New Hebridies. It's a little atoll between Noumea and Efate and was still "green"...so few months ago i sent in couple of small TFs with a base force (little) and a seabees unit. The unloading operations took forever but finally we managed to get the troops in place. Now, they managed to build the base at 0(0) 1(5) and so we flew in from Suva a catalina group. It seems that efate is empty too...we'll try to send a base force and an engeneer unit here too in order to get a a better "visual" on the Solomons.

I'm also thinking about how to make Darwin operational again. Think i'll start asap to build the bases in the northwest of Oz in order, slowly but steady (like in the Aleutinas) to create a chain of bases that can be supported by air, in order to arrive at Darwin with a decent air cover within the next 2/3 months (air cover which is badly needed if i want to send a supply TF there and open the base again for future operations).

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 846
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 8:19:08 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		August 19, 20 1942

INDIA:

Rader sent again his sweeps and bombers against Karachi. We tried to oppose a more "detailed" resistance this time, putting what was left of the P-38Es group at 30k and the aircobras very low at 5k, trying to attract the zeros low in order to get a constant dive on them. The result was discouraging. 17 a/c lost for me and only 20 for him...think sheer numbers here made the difference. He attacked me with 300 fighters...tough to defend with less than 50...
The KB moved back to Bombay area in order to refuel. This doesn't change much the situation cause now Rader has an almost complete control of the skies in India even without the mighty KB.
The good news is that Andy Mac was right...once Karachi reached the lvl 9 forts the supply consumption has really dropped!
In the stack at 44,19 there must have arrived a large portion of his AA...3 of my recon planes got mauled by the flak at 20k flying over there... He should be ready to cross i guess...he has plenty of troops to do anything he wants now...think it's a matter of days now...

PACIFIC:

We attacked Marcus is. as planned. To my surprise Marcus, even if not built (AF 1 and Port 1) is full of troops...5 units counted for 10500 men... Where does Rader find all those men with all those troops in India remains a mistery to me...
However our attack annihilated the facilities, closing the AF where 18 kates and 7 mavies have been torched on the ground....Kates! That mean that Rader is sending his LBA to interdict my operations...we'll pay another visit tomorrow in order to close the AF once for all and at the same time to attack the ground troops to see what he really has there
10 subs (at least) immediately appeared near Marcus...they must have been ready somehwere in the Marianas...have to pay attention now.
The Marcus and Wake invasion TFs moved from PH and will position N-E of wake...waiting for the CVs to finish their job.

In Sopac something strange happened. Erromango (the dot-base i was talking about) garrison managed to occupy automatically an empty Efate. We're now sending in from Suva a base force and a seebeas unit. If the New Hebridies are not-occupied by the japs i'm willing to take advantage of this and estabilish a new perimeter with catalinas and submarine installations.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 847
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 10:26:08 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Now i badly need to know what composes those 10500 troops at Marcus. If they are combat units (but my recon could also be mistaken) i'd probably need to send some reinforcements for the first wave. The fact is that i don't have any other unit which is 100% prepped...but i think i'll have to confide on overwhelming numbers in order to bypass this problem (as nemo suggested long time ago talking about Iwo). I'll use those two regiments that are now guarding Big Island...

Don't you find pretty strange that Rader overcommitts so much at Marcus?? I mean...it's small base, with no chance of becoming a major naval or air base...it's almost just an out-post for subs or naval air search... I believe my recon, as many times happens, is mistaken...oh, better, i WANT to believe it's mistaken.

However it feels so good to finally be able to hit a place with all those carrier based planes

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 848
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 2:32:42 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Bear in mind the Japs get a lot of Naval Guard units with an assault value of 60, which many players use to garrison the smaller cenpac islands. When taking into account troop limits on the smaller bases the presence of even just one of these units plus a support BF unit (usually about 10 AV) can make for a very hard struggle to capture.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 849
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 2:45:08 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Also- have you sorted out and KEPT all of your APs that can convert to APAs?  That is a must.


Done, even if i was planning to use them during the Marshalls invasion due to their Superb unload ratio... think i'll use them in the Bonins too...i know they're usefull but i need to be ashore fast!


What's the easiest way for me to be able to find all the ships that can be converted to APAs? Is there any way other than going through ship by ship?

_____________________________

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 850
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 3:00:26 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Also- have you sorted out and KEPT all of your APs that can convert to APAs?  That is a must.


Done, even if i was planning to use them during the Marshalls invasion due to their Superb unload ratio... think i'll use them in the Bonins too...i know they're usefull but i need to be ashore fast!


What's the easiest way for me to be able to find all the ships that can be converted to APAs? Is there any way other than going through ship by ship?


As far as i know all the APs (not xAPs) can convert from 1943 to APAs

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 851
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 3:01:54 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Bear in mind the Japs get a lot of Naval Guard units with an assault value of 60, which many players use to garrison the smaller cenpac islands. When taking into account troop limits on the smaller bases the presence of even just one of these units plus a support BF unit (usually about 10 AV) can make for a very hard struggle to capture.


But considering how many (even of those naval guards units) troops he has brought to Japan and how many bases he has to guard in the pacific...well...those numbers seem odd to me.
However tomorrow we'll know better when we'll bomb the ground troops...

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 852
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 3:31:32 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, GreyJoy! 

I'm enjoying your AAR very much and eagerly awaiting the Decision in India.


_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 853
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 3:36:49 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		I made some calculations: Marcus could host only 6000 men. So it's pretty sure that my recon was mistaken in giving 10500 men. I've experiemented what means to have 9000 men on Canton Island (which has the same limitation as Marcus)...you simply run out of supply within a couple of weeks. So there must be for sure 4500 men less on that island...

For whatc concerns India the supply situation, despite the heavy bombings of the last weeks, has remained more or less good. The daily arrival of 3000 supplies, even with some losses due to the KB or SCTF, seems to be enough to guarantee that the base with no forts building, can remain supplied. And that's a very good news.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 854
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 3:42:30 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Thanks, GreyJoy! 

I'm enjoying your AAR very much and eagerly awaiting the Decision in India.



Thanks mate!

I'm waiting for the MOMENT too...i really think it's now just a matter of days...Rader has massed so many assets there that he must be ready to cross!!

I was thinking the other day...: it's strange that Rader didn't try to conquest Chungking which had no supplies, forts lvl 6 and just 4500 AVs (chinese av!!), while now he wants to get Karachi which is, by far, a more difficult target. In China he had so many divisions that he could easily siege and take Chungking...but he did not...and now there are 9500 AVs there (respawn!)...

I'm eager to see how my spitfire force will be able to fight against those terrible odds...if we manage to put up 200 good fighters with pilots well above 70/50 i think we can attritt him enough to contest, at least in the short run, the dominion of the skies.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 855
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 6:52:37 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I made some calculations: Marcus could host only 6000 men. So it's pretty sure that my recon was mistaken in giving 10500 men. I've experiemented what means to have 9000 men on Canton Island (which has the same limitation as Marcus)...you simply run out of supply within a couple of weeks. So there must be for sure 4500 men less on that island...

I have it in my games as the allies and I had about 7,500 men there. It's possible, but you burn through supplies at a tremendous rate. I am trying to pick some guys up, but the nearby Betty's are killing me. Kind of a catch 22. I'm trying to send ships to pick up men and they get trashed, and I'm trying to slip in supply AKL's and they get trashed. So I might have to send up a carrier task force to pick up some men. No so sure it's worth it so far to hold this particular piece of real estate

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 856
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 10:57:57 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		August 22,23 1942

We bombed the hell out of Marcus again...he had more than i feared...
we counted:

The 28th Engineer Regiment ...
The 2nd Engineer Regiment ...
the 71st Engineer Regiment...
the 205th JAAF AF Bn ...
The 85th Naval Guard Unit ...

All those combat engeneers must have brought the forts to a very high level!
I gotta say that again i feel outplayed by my opponent. Every plan i take it seems he has already foreseen it long before i even dare to think about it as a possibility... Now we'll try to bomb Wake and see what he has there...but if these are the levels of his defences...what would i need to take them!? A RCT is not enough for sure...i'd need at least a full division if he has 6 forts as i fear...and a full division for Marcus is not well utilized imho...Marcus was meant to be just a "side-show"...
Ok, let's be flexible. Let's take a look at Wake and see if we can land there without that much opposition...he cannot have engeneers everywhere (i'm sure he has lots of them at Timor and in the Banda Sea).

...Rader however was really smart. He didn't build those bases so he made me believe he wasn't defending them...and i ate the bait like a dumb fish

Now my CVs are sorrounded by subs...the sprung out of nothing within a couple of turns and now are menacing my CVs...have to pay attention...i detached 2 dedicated ASW TFs...let's hope they will be enough.

My Amph TFs are getting close to Midway right now, while at Christmas the Gilbert Invasion fleet is assembling.

In Sopac we are almost ready to land with the seabees at Efate. We'll soon recon Lungaville to see what he has there...if that island is empty like the other ones we'll occupy it asap.

In India everything is calm. The usual Karachi bombings but again we managed to unload 5200 supplies this turn...not bad. Now 70 units are massing at 44,19 and among them, intel tells me, there are AA units...yes, Rader is ready now. I'm sure of that


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 857
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/12/2011 11:19:14 PM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline 		the problem is that some islands have a certain maximum of stationed men there... let' say it's 6000 - if he already has more than 6000 there it's VERY costly to dislodge him....borderline impossible...- a division employed there might only mean more losses than with a regiment if you forget about a few fundamental things...

you'll need a huge amount of supplies, as lots is spoiled (if any is even unloaded, as there might not be enough space for supplies)
you'll need many Bombardment TFs to ensure that your guys actually have space on the beach
you'll need constant air raids to further diminish the defenders...

and so on... I'm sure I left out a few things...

EDIT: to deal with subs, and with KB well out of sight you might wanna consider putting some of your SBD-Squads on ASW duty as well!

< Message edited by SoliInvictus202 -- 6/12/2011 11:20:05 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 858
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 12:51:26 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		One thing is - are those all combat engineer units or just builders? I don't know the Imperial OOB well enough to be certain myself.

It might not be an ambush. It might simply be that he realizes that he can not defend that area as robustly because he has such a heavy commitment so far away. Therefore, he decided to max out the forts - IIRC that will be "6" both at Marcus and Wake - before building any base facilities. The subs are certainly an appropriate defensive force to try and extract a price for Allied forays into the area.

I don't know what you've read about planning amphibious ops in this game, but SoliInvictus is pointing you in the right direction about the difficulty. They can certainly be dislodged without a full division, but the point is that it's tough. This game needs to be learned in bites, and one thing you should take a taste of now is the strength of different squad types as shown in Tracker. Go to Devices, then set the filters to "Allies" and "Squads" and "Ingore 9999 Arrival" (or whatever exactly that last one says. Then, sort the display by the name column. Now, you are going to be mostly interested in the values for "Anti-Hard" and "Anti-Soft" for the different squad types. Notice the values for the different upgrades of the USMC and USA (that's US Army not USA) squads. The squads for them get far more powerful as they upgrade. You can also change the filter to "Japan" to see what firepower the enemy squads have. The long and short of it is that in addition to all the other things, you want to use units with the most upgraded and powerful squads available when you do amphibious invasions.

This is just one more 'taste', hope it helps.

EDIT: I wrote "Anti-Hard" but the term used is actually "Anti-Armor".

< Message edited by witpqs -- 6/13/2011 12:57:43 AM >

(in reply to SoliInvictus202)
Post #: 859
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 6:04:12 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

...Rader however was really smart. He didn't build those bases so he made me believe he wasn't defending them...and i ate the bait like a dumb fish



Don't overthink your operation. It is unlikely that your opponent would bury three of his precious combat engineer regiments on an unbuilt atoll, fortify it, and leave it unbuilt as bait, while the engineers -- whose service is in demand all over the map-- twiddle their thumbs, on the off-chance that you might someday strike with just enough force to be repulsed.

one of those regiments were bought out from Manchuko. Another arrived as a reinforcement a few months ago. Perhaps he is finally getting around to building up his bases in the area. Maybe his style is to build up forts first, or maybe the regiments have only recently arrived.

Each of the engineers has 48 squads, as does the Naval garrison. If that's all he has on the atoll (and he can't have much more, together those units total 5000+ men) then you are looking at 200-250 AV. His engineers have comparable firepower (slightly more) than a 42 US Army squad. His anti-armor capability can probably handle M2A4s, but is weak against M3 Stuarts or anything larger. If your force is inadequate to take them out, then by all means be flexible, see if Wake is easier, and encourage him to keep as many combat engineers as possible on Marcus.


< Message edited by Blackhorse -- 6/13/2011 6:05:33 AM >

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 860
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 12:13:17 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Soleinvictus, Witpqs and BlackHorse,

  thanks guys for your inputs.

I'm sure those eng are combat eng and not just seabees. If BH is right and he has 200/250 AVs there...well, i won't be able to dislodge him even if he doesn't have any fort (i doubt he doesn't).
So let's say the Marcus Is. operation has been a recognition in force and nothing more...kind of the one planned by Nimitz in late 42...

Anyway, more bad news. The intel reports more than 16k men based at Iwo Jiima...Rader has fortified and well defended all those bases i intended to invade...bad luck or my plans are so obvious? probably both of them...

However now we'll try to "taste" Wake and see what he has there so we'll be able to decide what to do. In the meanwhile my Amph TFs will station far away close to Midway waiting for the green light.

The KB isn't showing herself anymore...it's been now 6 days since she left from my sight and i'm getting pretty worried... is she coming back? I hope not...i hope she's just R&R at Colombo...if she gets back to pacific that will mean my plans must be aborted again...

August 24,25 1942

Usual bombings over Karachi and 120 units massing at 44,19...with LOTS of flak...don't understand what Rader is waiting for...
The supply situation in Karachi remains stable. The flux of supplies is constant and the efforts are paying off...

In the Pacific we moved our CVs away eastwards...subs didn't get me but there are at least 20 of them all around my ships...scary!! I've already put a devastator group on ASW and 2 Dountless groups on Naval search 100%....we'll try to get to wake tomorrow and to bomb the hell out of the japanese island in order to see what's his strenght and which units he has there...

In Sopac we landed the seabees at Efate and we're now building it...hopefully within 2/3 weeks we'll be able to estabilish a decent sub base here.

I also decided N-E OZ isn't in danger anymore so i sent to Cairns engineers and base forces in order to create here a good bomber base in order to start reducing PM by the end of the upcoming fall season...


(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 861
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 12:39:20 PM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline 		one thing about Wake to consider is that it gets a nasty CD gun unit sometime in 42 - IIRC it should already be there.... - if you don't put considerable heavy assets into your amphib TF your landing crafts and your troops will get chewed up before they're even ashore!


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 862
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 12:53:27 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202

one thing about Wake to consider is that it gets a nasty CD gun unit sometime in 42 - IIRC it should already be there.... - if you don't put considerable heavy assets into your amphib TF your landing crafts and your troops will get chewed up before they're even ashore!




Thx mate!...well, think we'll soon discover what he has there. Next turn we should be able to start bombing it so we'll see...i'm now more concerned about the KB...where is it?

(in reply to SoliInvictus202)
Post #: 863
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 2:06:43 PM   
WLockard


Posts: 183
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		I have been reading this AAR and I would like to know what the fascination is with Wake and Marcus Islands? Neither are very useful or defensible. I would think you would want to make your main attack in an area you could take multiple targets and use your land based air power from multiple locations. Please enlighten me.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 864
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 4:34:17 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WLockard

I have been reading this AAR and I would like to know what the fascination is with Wake and Marcus Islands? Neither are very useful or defensible. I would think you would want to make your main attack in an area you could take multiple targets and use your land based air power from multiple locations. Please enlighten me.



Hi mate!
Wake and Marcus were originally just a part of my major operation against Iwo Jiima and the Gilberts. They wanted to be the coverage of my main conquest of the Bonins. I intended them to be conquered because i wanted to cover my flanks...everything was based on a wrong (or better: partial) intel that in 8 months signaled just weak forces present on those islands. That's why i devoted to these "side-shows" only minor assets...

But now the plan is crumbling down cause Iwo is reported FULL of troops and Marcus has already shown me that it is a far tougher nut to crack than what i believed...

I hope Wake will be an easier target...if so i'll switch to just the "second half" of the plan...so to say Wake and the Gilberts...with a decent CV force i think i should succeed now in the Gilberts (remember that i already aborted a plan a couple of months ago there...)

(in reply to WLockard)
Post #: 865
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 7:14:01 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Also- have you sorted out and KEPT all of your APs that can convert to APAs?  That is a must.


Done, even if i was planning to use them during the Marshalls invasion due to their Superb unload ratio... think i'll use them in the Bonins too...i know they're usefull but i need to be ashore fast!


What's the easiest way for me to be able to find all the ships that can be converted to APAs? Is there any way other than going through ship by ship?


Mike- Terminus posted this in a discussion a few pages back, instead of giving you the link to scroll through and find it, I just copied his text.

Originally from Terminus- (AP -> APA: Harris, Heywood, McCawley, Pres. Jackson, Sumter and Bayfield classes.)

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 866
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 7:36:24 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		GreyJoy- I still follow your AAR, but do not post as much as I used to on it...

You have been given a lot of useful and helpful information from day one...my biggest concern is your tendency to change your plans on a dime, and go for something unrealistic...

I STRONGLY urge you to strengthen your SOPAC area before you carry out ANY type of operation into Japanese territory into that area.  Strengthen any area you plan to stage an operation from for that fact….

I, too, am wondering your fascination with Wake and Marcus...do you understand the consequences of supplying those bases SO far away from your own, and the logistics nightmare without strong front line ports?    These ports are in front of even STRONGER ports back home, away from the front lines.  Yes it could cause a thorn in his side, but more than likely he will STARVE you out of those two places if you happen to take them, making them a POW island for anything you send there.

I am big on logistics for more than a number of reason, but I will list a few..

1. It is the sole foundation for anything and everything you do.  Your ships must have fuel, your planes and units must have supply, and your bases most have both.  Period
2. I do it for a living, love it, and it comes naturally...(anyone interested in a PBEM, I will run your logistics  )

With that being said, you can do any invasion you like, anywhere you like, but I would STRONGLY steer you to building up the supporting forces behind those LARGE invasions first.  I would also urge you to look longer term and have a defined goal for say 6 months out, 12 months, 18 months... not just "Oh if Wake doesn't work, I'll try the Marshalls."  I honestly don't think you can support a large scale invasion at this point with the lack of logistics in the SoPac, Pearl, West Coast, and Aussie areas...

BUT, do you know what you have enough ships, supply, and fuel for right now?

Build up the following:

Brisbane, Sydney, Perth, Suva, Pago Pago, and all of those island between that area and West Coast should be built up and secured from DAY 1.  I can’t say on India for now, because you hold Karachi and are running in supply daily it seems like, but you will take back India at some point, and we’ll cross that bridge when you get to it.

I have also noticed you say- "I think if I have this here and this here, hopefully this will happen… well, unfortunately, this is a numbers game, and that is not how it works.  If he brings more AVs, has higher morale, higher supply, better leaders, and blasts you first, you’re toast. There really is no “maybe I can hold out if this this and this happens..”  It’s a numbers game IMO.  Certain supply is required per day per unit, fuel, and all of that jazz.  Period.  You are becoming a lot better at this from day one, but I tend to see you comment on this…(I am not god at this, I will be the first to admit, or at AE period.)

I just get the feeling your entire focus is on India.  We hear about an invasion idea here and there, but I am curious ( just because I enjoy hearing what is going on, and so others can offer input and see what you think.) what your plans are, both short and long term.  A clear, defined, and reachable goal. 

Looking forward to the outcome.

< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 6/13/2011 7:49:35 PM >

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Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 867
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 8:08:40 PM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I've been trying to keep my mouth shut about strategy in this game, as I am personally convinced that "every man should make up his own mind on what and how he wants to fight HIS war" - therefore I only tried to provide you with hints and smaller observations to YOUR decisions...

nevertheless I totally agree with jeff here and I, too, can only strongly urge you to come up with a long term plan and have a look at the BIG PICTURE!!! - many have already said this here - Nemo, Canoe are only two of them - but you need to prepare for invasions - stock supplies, stock fuel (most importantly as you'll always be short on fuel in your operational areas, even at the time when you'll receive 1 TK a week, or more), gather ships, prep units (3 months to prep one, if you change target when it reaches 99, you start from scratch, and having a unit prepped at 50 will help you about as much as a unit 100 prepped for another target!....just to point out that you need to look AHEAD!)

I like your fighting spirit and your determination to keep on playing, despite several defeats - but you should start looking forward and making a plan to REGAIN the initiative, (yes, it might be to early now, but without a proper idea you'll never be in charge of this war) - but not only by raiding a few islands with your CVs (which sums up your operation on Marcus and Wake to date) but by getting stuff together to take on the EMPIRE! :D

seeing that your opponent prepared for such an move of yours - seeing that your opponent foresaw that you might attack on the other side of the map while he was in India should point out to you that you're facing more than just a very good player! - taking this war step by step will only lead to the fact that he'll always stay 4 steps ahead of you - and that brings disaster along with it!

good luck to you for your future operations!

PS: and as always, when I type something here- it'S not meant personally!

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 868
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 9:53:14 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Guys, absolutely nothing personal! never need to excuse! I thank you all for the time expended dropping lines and giving hints to me.

i'll do the AAR for the turn and then will reply to you friends.

August 26,27 1942

Our CVs approached Wake on the 26th...slaloming among not less than 20 enemy subs...The day after we were close enough to send our bombers but before my guys took off a wave of enemies took off from Wake AF...30 Vals escorted by 30 A6m2s...luckly my CAP was strong enough and we managed to down the whole wave...not a single Val got through (that's good because it prooves that our Navy Pilots finally reached a number to be able to tangle enemy LBA when not overwhelmed). Then our Avangers and Dauntless took off and fought against a strong CAP made up by zeros and oscars. We got through with only 5 losses and we mauled the base....
As i feared Rader has fortified Wake too...6500 units there with the previously mentioned CD unit and some Infantry...

I consider now this as an recognition in force...also a mission that showed me what my 6CVs can do togheder...a very good offensive weapon i'd say.

In India still the same usual bombings at Karachi with 10 planes torched on the ground but 17 enemies downed by my flak.

now his army at 44,19 is composed of 140 units...think the time as come now. He'll cross within the next 2/3 turns i'd say...

Another big SCTF moved north from Bombay. Still no sign of the KB...i feel a little bit strange about the fact that the KB isn't showing up right now that he's ready to cross...sounds strange...

However, the fact is that i, once again, showed that i'm not at the level of my opponent...my strategical thought is weak...and i admit it.
The failure of the last operation is a clear proove of my inability to determine the big picture.

Anyway i'm not giving up. Secure my starting positions? yes, i do agree. PH and Hawaii should be really safe now with troops and forts in every island.
Christmas is safe and so should be Pago Pago with 300 AVs and lots of forts. Suva is being building and so it is Noumea (during the last 2 weeks).

Sydney is built at max and now it's Brisbane and Cairns those who are being built and fortified. The supply chain is slowly getting at a good flux level with ships bringing supplies and fuel to PH from WC, then from here to Christmas, from Christmas to Pago Pago and from here to Suva.
It will take some more time to consider this a "maginot" line but with all those enemies in India i think i'll have the time to prepare at best my starting positions...

However, talking about starting positions...what i'm looking for is a place from where i can start to ruin his perimeter. That's why i wanted the Gilberts and that's why i considered the hypotesis of Iwo Jima (supported by the two minor invasions of Wake and Marcus) when Nemo suggested it.
now that this operation went FUBAR i'm not abbandoning the idea of looking for a soft spot. My main problem is that i don't have any decent long range recon and i never know what is his disposition before i face it with an invasion...now at least i know that the eastern perimeter is strong...so i'll be trying again the southern Gilberts...with these powerfull CVs now i feel pretty confident that i can manage to face his LBAs when at long range...but first i need to know if he has fortified Tarawa, Abenama and Makin in the meanwhile (i remember that 2 months ago those islands were almost unguarded).

Anyway...i need to stop and think about your precious and wise words. I think i read in another thread that sometimes it's better to sit down and refresh your mind when you have entered in a spiral dive like me...

Tomorrow i'm leaving for a fair...i'll be unplugged for 3 days...will use these days to re-think about my all strategy and my overall situation.

Thank you all. And i really mean it

(in reply to SoliInvictus202)
Post #: 869
RE: The Mother of all Air Battles - 6/13/2011 10:02:57 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Guys, absolutely nothing personal! never need to excuse! I thank you all for the time expended dropping lines and giving hints to me.



Good. Nothing is ever personal. I really enjoy your AAR.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

However, the fact is that i, once again, showed that i'm not at the level of my opponent...my strategical thought is weak...and i admit it.
The failure of the last operation is a clear proove of my inability to determine the big picture.

Anyway i'm not giving up.


Not giving up is the best thing you can do. No one should ever give up on anything. I gave up on Jennifer Aniston after I realized I had nothing Brad Pitt couldn't already offer, but that is beside the point.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Tomorrow i'm leaving for a fair...i'll be unplugged for 3 days...will use these days to re-think about my all strategy and my overall situation.



Naw, don't even think about it one bit. Enjoy the time spent with your family. You will never get that time back, trust me. I see my little boy every weekend, while my wife waits in McPherson for our house to sell with my new job promotion...take your time with your family. I cannot repeat that enough.

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 870
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