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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas

 
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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/22/2011 7:04:29 PM   
randallw

 

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The Pe-3 is a long range fighter, not a bomber. Not to be confused with the Pe-2 bomber.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/22/2011 7:13:50 PM   
Mehring

 

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Think he meant Pe-8

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/22/2011 7:17:50 PM   
randallw

 

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The Pe-8? It is produced for less than a year, probably just a small fraction of the level bomber pool available.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/22/2011 7:36:32 PM   
Mehring

 

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Nope. 1 per turn from game start to end of 1942. If in small quantities, it's the heaviest thing the Russians produce AFAIK, and very effective.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 4:18:01 AM   
Q-Ball


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Turn 29: 1/1/42

The Russian Steamroller continues. This turn, we launched a total of 101 attacks; 66 were successful, and 36 unsucessful. This has been typical; I have consistently done more attacks than most AARs that I have seen (and failed more too). Not sure why; do I have that many good units up front, or are the Germans presenting more easy opportunities to attack?

Casualties were 52K for the Axis this turn, with 161 Tanks. I lost 72K in battle. The Germans are down to 772 Ready Tanks. Low!

Nevertheless, we are starting to run out of steam. My fronts are all trailing UNREADY divisions (they are all re-HQ to STAVKA), that I am leaving behind. (and replacing with new Divisions). The CRIMEAN troops are almost completely out of gas, so my attacks figure to drop off. Tarhunnas is starting to pull it together.

See the map below for a visual update.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 5:00:03 AM   
Peltonx


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The general problem is most poeple never think ahead, they only think about what is going on this turn.

You should be asking yourself, where do I not T want my winter O to end?

Figure out what defensive lines you like to have before snow turns.

You should be digging in by 2/1942. Sure let some crazy Russian keep dogging the GHC units, but start digging in your 3 deep lvl 3 forts before its to late. Do not over reach like he did.

Pelton

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 9:43:19 AM   
Mehring

 

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January makes a big difference and I think the displayed CV becomes quite deceptive. Watch out! I'd go for fewer but more sure attacks to gain victories and attrite the Axis.

I'm curious about your transferring unready unit sto STAVKA. I tend to spend my APs transferring units between armies to keep attacking formations and even individual attacks up to strength and HQs within command maximum. I then end up with exhausted Armies to withdraw. Much of a muchness AFAICS unless one method uses less APs than the other.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 11:41:56 AM   
BletchleyGeek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Turn 29: 1/1/42

The Russian Steamroller continues. This turn, we launched a total of 101 attacks; 66 were successful, and 36 unsucessful. This has been typical; I have consistently done more attacks than most AARs that I have seen (and failed more too). Not sure why; do I have that many good units up front, or are the Germans presenting more easy opportunities to attack?

Casualties were 52K for the Axis this turn, with 161 Tanks. I lost 72K in battle. The Germans are down to 772 Ready Tanks. Low!

Nevertheless, we are starting to run out of steam. My fronts are all trailing UNREADY divisions (they are all re-HQ to STAVKA), that I am leaving behind. (and replacing with new Divisions). The CRIMEAN troops are almost completely out of gas, so my attacks figure to drop off. Tarhunnas is starting to pull it together.


Since Tarhunnas is covering an extremely long frontline - even with the Finns up North it's very long - he's offering to you more easy pickings than usual.

I'd advise you to lower the pressure around Moscow and give priority to the Kursk - Dnepropetrovsk sector. I can't see the factors on the units, but looks to me the German Army there is about to collapse. Attacking towards Dnepropetrovsk and Poltava, threatening a good chunk of AGS with encirclement, will put on the OKH table a huge crisis.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 1:07:20 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Keep the pressure! The Soviets goals are NOT sophisticated in the Blizzard Massacres. You are not aiming at Berlin

Simply

1) trash enemy units (and every time you attack them you are doing that), ergo do NOT miss a single opportunity
2) harvest Guards: 1) will make this inevitable

You can do those many attacks because I suspect Tarhunnas ran out of fortified hexes (we can't see the fort levels in the screenshots). He must be banging his head against the wall: "why didn't I start fortifying hexes, why?"

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 1:20:27 PM   
Sabre21


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Your ratio of wins to losses seems to be in line with what I was experiencing in all my tests, but you are doing double the number of attacks that I did overall. I rarely managed to get over 50 attacks per turn, but then i tend to focus my forces where had I spread out the better units more it is possible to have done more attacks.

If you are able to catch his units out in the open with no forts, then I can understand why there are so many attacks.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 2:03:26 PM   
paullus99


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Giving some thought to either a stop line or defensive position for the spring/snow snap-back would probably be a good idea as well. Of course, with the number of tanks your opponent has lost (and left) it will be hard for him to conduct any kind of deep penetration offensive unless he has plenty of time to rest & refit - giving you the opportunity to be fully prepared for him.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 3:19:14 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Your ratio of wins to losses seems to be in line with what I was experiencing in all my tests, but you are doing double the number of attacks that I did overall. I rarely managed to get over 50 attacks per turn, but then i tend to focus my forces where had I spread out the better units more it is possible to have done more attacks.

If you are able to catch his units out in the open with no forts, then I can understand why there are so many attacks.


Not sure about this, but when I faced this same dilemma I decided that I would be spreading my forces (unlike during the summer, when I had them heavily concentrated). Given that you can have (if you do that) 2-units stacks (Rifle Divisions) from the Baltic to the Black Seas, this gives you LOTS of nice opportunities you can exploit In other words, I am not sure concentrating the forces is the best option during the Blizzard Massacres. You only have 12 turns, you have to trash the Germans.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 3:37:04 PM   
Q-Ball


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Good feedback on the Blizzard.

PLANS AND RESERVES:
In general, I have sent most of my reserves to the area between Kharkov and Tula, particularly the center around Kursk. My plan was for this to be my main effort. I have sent 3 Shock Army HQs here, and I put Zhukov in command of the Bryansk front, all for maximum effect. I will post a tactical shot of this area, but it looks ugly for the Germans: Few forts, all units are very low visible CV, and are pushed multiple times in the open. I am only advancing a couple hexes a turn because I have to smash the Germans, but the poor units in this front are just speedbumps now. And that includes several Panzer Divisions, most of which are below 30 tanks. 7th Panzer is down to 4 tanks; I suspect it's morale is way below 90 at this point. Last turn I hasty-attacked it with a single Cav division, and it retreated.

Elsewhere, I also accumulated reserves before the offensive around the DONBAS cities, in particular an entire army of Cavalry. I have converted this army to 5 Cav Corps, and they have added to Tarhunnas's misery in that area. Some of these reserves were sent just a bit north to Southwest front driving on Kharkov and south of Kharkov.

I really did not reinforce Moscow much; I sent a few units, but mostly I am using what I ended the summer with, they just got a little stronger from taking replacements. I didn't really plan a big Moscow push this winter, but if you have available troops, and the Germans are weak enough to push, why not?

At this point, I have committed almost all my reserves; the last units are the Transcaucausus units that will be unfrozen next turn. After that, I have no ready reserves. I do have alot of UNREADY units that I could REFIT pretty quickly, but I am keeping my front-line units on REFIT to extend their life, and that of the offensive.

From north to south, here is the front conditions: (NOTE: My front locations are not historical/geographical, I wish I could re-name them!):

NORTH: Just took Vishny Volochek, but almost time to halt
NORTHWEST: Moving on Torzhok and Kalinin, but almost out of gas here
VOLKHOV: Within 2 hexes of Moscow, and still has combat power.
WESTERN FRONT: Just took TULA, and has alot of gas left; I dispatched some fresh units here, and activated 4th Shock Army
BRYANSK: They are getting first priority. Plenty of gas left in the tank!
SOUTHWEST: So-so; just sent them some, as they were in danger of halting past Kharkov, which just fell
KALININ: Pretty fresh, because Tarhunnas has mostly been running in front of them
SOUTHERN: Ditto w Kalinin
CRIMEAN: Totally spent; I have to halt down here, and let the push on Dnepropetrovsk take over

GERMAN PLANS:

I hear you on the Germans, and I am wary of a backhand blow. I still want to play out January before making definitive plans, but part of the reason I am targeting Panzers is to prevent a backhand blow. If he finishes winter with less than 1,000 tanks, he probably can't counterattack in the snow, and will probably not start much of an offensive before June, to give him time to take Panzer replacements. If that's the case, I'll have plenty of breathing room.

I am pretty sure right now that his #1 priority will be a drive toward the Sea of Azov to create space, and pockets, as well as drive me back into the Crimea. Depending on what kind of bulge I end up with around Kursk, that may be a target as well. Too early to tell, though.

FEEDBACK FROM OKH:

Tarhunnas admits this winter has been very tough, and much much tougher than his game with gids. I think this is one reason he was unprepared, because apparently gids winter offensive was much weaker, maybe because he lost more.

I lost a little over 3 mil before winter, but I didn't run out of Armaments in 1941. Maybe that was because I didn't build ANY support units other than diggers, and I even disbanded a few armament-hogging units to cannibalize them for replacements (AT Bdes, Motorcycle Regts, Heavy Artillery). I think I will do this in future games, it really sets-up the Red Army well in December IMO. You need as many Rifles at the front as you can muster.

I think Tarhunnas made a couple mistakes entering the winter.

1. Failed to clear the Crimean Front: This was his biggest error, IMO. At one point, 2 German Corps could have done it.
2. I think he should have cancelled any SNOW attacks, or just done one in the Crimea bridgehead. I am a big fan of SNOW attacks, but he was very spent from Summer, and had impressive gains already in the bag.
3. His lines are WAY too long. This forced him to keep Panzers on the front all winter, which is bad. Crimean front is the main culprit here, but he could have fallen back from a few salients to shorten-up right before winter.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 6/23/2011 4:13:18 PM >


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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 3:53:25 PM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

7th Panzer is down to 4 tanks; I suspect it's morale is way below 90 at this point.
Very dry.

quote:

(NOTE: My front locations are not historical/geographical, I wish I could re-name them!
+1

If he's that beat up and your units are fleshing out ok with new equipment you may well be able to continue attacking in the summer.


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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 4:04:03 PM   
BletchleyGeek


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I hear you on the Germans, and I am wary of a backhand blow. I still want to play out January before making definitive plans, but part of the reason I am targeting Panzers is to prevent a backhand blow. If he finishes winter with less than 1,000 tanks, he probably can't counterattack in the snow, and will probably not start much of an offensive before June, to give him time to take Panzer replacements. If that's the case, I'll have plenty of breathing room.


That and all the morale those units will have lost after so many retreats. From what you tell us, quite a few of them have been being pushed back quite regularly, losing most of the morale they won during the summer battles. Even if he replaces most of his losses, these units will be - relatively - raw. This is a very good result already for you, the PanzerWaffen will be critically crippled. And if Tarhunnas doesn't shorten his lines dramatically you might well cause a massive German rout.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 4:10:22 PM   
Pawlock

 

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Q-Ball,

I follow your AAR with avid interest as I find your game somewhat mirrors mine (Moscow + Lenningrad lost), only Im just about to enter the blizzard. Not sure wether I would build cavalry armies as myself I think they lack punch to do much damage. I have built a good few cav divisions which I intend converting to corps and attaching to offensive armies.

What I do intend doing and perhaps it is something to consider yourself is any armies that are refitting in reserve have them building forts 2-3 hexes behind your lines of advance in sectors where you think he will push in spring/summer. May as well have them doing something rather that sitting on rail lines waiting to be called into action.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 4:24:56 PM   
Flaviusx


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Q-ball doesn't have to start worrying about backhand blows until February. He can go balls to the wall for another month here, and still have 4 turns left to rationalize his front lines.



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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 4:42:12 PM   
Pawlock

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Q-ball doesn't have to start worrying about backhand blows until February. He can go balls to the wall for another month here, and still have 4 turns left to rationalize his front lines.




I was'nt advocating a slowdown in his offensive whatsoever, just if you have armies sitting around refitting and gaining moral, have them doing something useful as well.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/23/2011 11:43:54 PM   
Q-Ball


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Turn 30:

I am beginning to think the Soviets are overpowered in winter again. I was on the receiving end of a Blizzard-beat down, and now I am on the giving end. I don't want to start that debate in my AAR, and Tarhunnas has made some mistakes in his Blizzard set-up, but he is paying for it way more than the actual Wehrmacht did.

This turn, I launched 99 attacks, 73 of them were successful (and 26 HELDS). One Cav Corps made 5 successful attacks; all Hasty, all against units that had previously retreated. I'll post a map of that breakout, but it isn't pretty.

The German line has essentially collapsed in front of Orel; the only units there are 1-1 speedbumps, and this turn we flipped 3 hexes deep. It's ugly.

Before I get to the Maps, the stats...see below. I am interested in how this Guards status works. I have 8 units so far, and averaging over 70 successful attacks a turn. I am due for some conversions, right?




Attachment (1)

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/24/2011 12:00:07 AM   
Klydon


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Did he send the Luftwaffe out by chance? It looks fairly healthy. I would think some ground support would have helped some of those guys. 

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/24/2011 12:28:08 AM   
Flaviusx


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Patience. You'll be getting plenty of guards in due course. I've noticed this myself, sometimes there's a substantial delay involved. I don't know exactly why this is the case, but they will flip over.



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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/24/2011 12:48:14 AM   
Ketza


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Keeping the Luftwaffe in the Blizzard is a must in my opinion.

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RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas - 6/24/2011 2:49:46 AM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Did he send the Luftwaffe out by chance? It looks fairly healthy. I would think some ground support would have helped some of those guys. 


Yes, the Luftwaffe is active. In fact, they may have more bombers at the front than me. I am being conservative with my IL-2s and Pe-2s, because I lost half my production. I have PLENTY of fighters though, so all my IADs units are maxed-out.

Map: Northern Fronts

See below for a global map of the North.

In front of MOSCOW, I am slowly gaining ground; I should clear it this winter. Not sure if I can hold it, but maybe I can at least make this a killing ground for Panzers later.

TULA should fall next turn (or the units inside will be surrounded).

I will post a smaller map of around OREL, where there is a collapse of the German lines.




Attachment (1)

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SHOCK-ing developments - 6/24/2011 3:00:37 AM   
Q-Ball


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T-30: Bryansk Front

I am attaching detail on the Bryansk Front. It's bad for the Germans. Real bad. I sensed it was cracking a turn or two ago, and immediately dispatched more fresh units. I wish I had more Cavalry here, but other than that, we have piles of trouble for the Germans.

With 3 more turn left in January, I don't know how he will halt me. The Germans do get some fresh units in Jan '42, so maybe that's the answer. I am sure they are going here.

I have accounted for almost all his Panzers, though, on the line; no help there.




Attachment (1)

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RE: SHOCK-ing developments - 6/24/2011 4:24:54 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Nicely done.

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RE: SHOCK-ing developments - 6/24/2011 4:42:09 AM   
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I believe it is safe to say that snow offensives by the Germans are foolhardy. Get in position and dig for the winter or you will suffer.


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RE: SHOCK-ing developments - 6/24/2011 9:34:56 AM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I believe it is safe to say that snow offensives by the Germans are foolhardy. Get in position and dig for the winter or you will suffer.


I disagree if the offensive is to kill Russian industry. Once it's gone it won't return. But dig in behind your attack and don't wait to be attacked before falling back once, or if objective is achieved, before, blizzard comes.

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RE: SHOCK-ing developments - 6/24/2011 9:57:39 AM   
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What ill effects are you going to gain from a few arm and hvy points?


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RE: SHOCK-ing developments - 6/24/2011 10:04:26 AM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

What ill effects are you going to gain from a few arm and hvy points?



If you're saying that destroying Russian industry is pointless, you're saying the Germans can't win. Yet plenty of German players have won the campaign, I have twice. Destroying industry, the means by which the Russians equip to fight you, is the primary objective.

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RE: SHOCK-ing developments - 6/24/2011 1:33:50 PM   
Ketza


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I believe it is safe to say that snow offensives by the Germans are foolhardy. Get in position and dig for the winter or you will suffer.



I suppose it depends on the game. My snow campaign killed off some 30+ Soviet divisions and I used it to smack around some of my opponents built up areas. Also if there is a strategic goal that is somewhat in reach like a batch of Industry it would be good as well.

If however you have not killed a decent amount of Soviets yet find yourself deep in their territory with a very long line to defend there could be major trouble and a snow offensive may not be wise.

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