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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/24/2011 1:52:14 PM

Andy Mac

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Holy crap what a mistake

20 Divs thats 9,000 AV !!! Personally I would now change strategy.

1. Bring in all remaining forces from Aden everything you can muster.
2. Place 5,000 AV's worth of Infantry into Hyderabad plus arty and AA
3. 1 reinforced Div onto each hex along the bend of the river behind you and get them digging in now to get the forts up - support them with a Lgt and Hvy AA regt each or one of the big group base forces. - so c 500 AV on each hex maybe 2 Divs on the route directly back from Hyderabad to secure your retreat.
4. Leave c 1,000 AV at Karachi as a reaction force to replace battle damaged units (mostly indpt Bdes)

EVERYTHING ELSE inclduding all armour and the para capable Chindint Bdes get them moving to Lahore - save Lahore and start moving south on Delhi ASAP move your airforce East and use them to cover your advance in the east.

He has committed the bulk of his force he cannot amphib now and he cannot have a major force in the east if you can push him back even once your massed armour can destry/exploit whatever he has.

Andy

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 1051

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/24/2011 1:54:51 PM

Andy Mac

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Agra looks like a good spot for the Para capable Chindit Bde to take and disrupt him if you can get your army moving in strat mode and rail them into his rear his entire eastern hinge could collapse

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Post #: 1052

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/24/2011 2:27:14 PM

Canoerebel

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And bomb his desert stack from high altitude on occasion. Even small raids will make some of his units switch from "Move" to "Combat' mode, slowing his rate of advance still further.

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Post #: 1053

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/24/2011 5:23:01 PM

GreyJoy

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Andy...yes, i was thinking about that... but i wanna wait some more few days...cause i fear it's a Rader's mistake rather than a strategy of his.(edited to be clearer)
In my opinion Rader attacked me in Jodpur few turns ago setting all his units to pursuit. The result is under everybody's eyes....9k AVs stuck in the desert. He could already be marching back so i don't wanna to be caught in a dangerous position untill i know he's REALLY going north!

Moving everything east now would be a gamble...Multan should be absolutely well defended because if he gets Multan he cuts me in two pieces. And Multan is a fruit that he's now ready to catch...only 40 badly distrupted AVs left there...no forts...nothing...i may be get caught half the way from Hyderabad to Multan, in strat mode, under the wave of his bombers..

If i move east and he's already marching back i may find myself out of my trench...forced to face his armies near Lahore where i have no air cover and no forts...remember that he still has the air superiority everywhere except for Karachi...so i have to be really careful.
I'll wait and see. If it's confirmed that he's really marching northwards...well...i'll have plenty of time to move...he won't get anywhere in that damned desert...and, as CR has said, i could bomb the hell out of his advancing troops.

Anyway i'm keeping ready for any move. Hyderabad has 2000 AVs and 7 forts...with all my armour ready to move if needed.

So we agree that he made a mistake...let's just wait a couple more turns to see if it's a mistake of "clicking" or a strategical one...

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 6/24/2011 5:33:26 PM >

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Post #: 1054

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 12:54:53 AM

GreyJoy

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Oct 15, 16 1942

Unfortunately, as foreseen, Rader is already going back from the desert. Was a mistake of his...nothing more.

I'm now seeing enemy units prepping for Hyderabad...

Lahore fell today.

Multan is heavily bombed and now only a light vail of 400 troops guards the base...

His BBs are again on the move. Ready to strike. He sent 4 DDs that surprised our cruisers at Karachi, sank the Danae CL and badly damaged 2 DDs...they went away before my torpedo bombers could react

...my subs were not able to intercept the fast ship...

Rader sent again his sweeping fighters. Heavy losses on both sides...154 for him...88 for me...

...today my P38Fs suffered a lot with 10 losses...

A bad day indeed...

Tomorrow we'll try another 4Es strike...hopefully before all those AAs will be able to get to Jodpur again...but i already see only 18 units north of Jodpur...he has moved them back very fast!

The proove that his pools are still full of planes is that today he used 500 bombers against my harrassing units...4 of them were completely destroyed and they no longer exist...

It's amazing the morale up and down that this game can give me...

Now everything will be decided again by our fighters...how long will they be able to resist? How long can we contest his air supremacy over Karachi?...the King holds his breath...

In the Solomons we keep on building our bases. Moving the APs and AKs to Oz right now in order to get ready for PM asap...

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Post #: 1055

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 2:22:49 AM

ny59giants

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Set your subs up 5 to 9 hexes south of Karachi. His ships will end up in this area depending on their speed the phase before and after they come into Karachi.

If you have enough mines, I would lay some of them along the coast in those 5 to 9 hexes zone.

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Post #: 1056

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 10:15:18 AM

GreyJoy

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NY58G. yes, thanks, i'll try that...the problem is that Rader is keeping his ships in shallow waters so my subs aren't really able to do anything...however i'm trying to set up the "mine process" you suggested...subs are moving to place mines at Palembang and in the Malacca strait...let's see!

Oct 17, 18 1942

A day of terrible losses for the allies.
Rader decided that Jodpur, for the moment, wasn't a safe place for his bombers and he moved them away towards Dehli, from where 300 of them pounded what was left of my garrisons in the North-East of India.
He sent only 200 Tojos to do the "dirty" job at Karachi. This time we got the upper hand and we managed to achieve a good 3-1 against his Tojos (you see...numbers!), while keeping all the rest of his forces on CAP...my 4Es were ordered to strike...for two days...we sustained terrible losses, both in the air and by the flak...overall we've lost in these 2 days nearly 70 4Es

...destroying 162 planes on the ground (only fighters)...not good. Well...well...i know...

The good news is that now Rader knows he cannot consider his bases 100% secure...and this is giving my fighter boys some more time to rest...however it hurts the loss of all those 4Es...but it cannot go always in the way we want, so let's accept it and look at the bright side of the moon: More CAP means less sweep!

Then Rader sent the usual DD strike against Karachi. 12 DDs divided in 2 different TFs...this time we've put a B-25 squadron with LowN trained pilots on alert...these brave kids intercepted the ships when they were 11 hexes away and managed to place a bomb on a DD...this caused the whole TF to be late on its scheldue the next day and they all ended up at 2 hexes far from Karachi...our strike of 70 Torpedo Bombers, 16 dive bombers and 20 lowN medium bombers got them....at least 7 DDs are now badly damaged (and probably will sink) and the whole Rader's operation is screwed!

...

I consider these small victories big strategic ones...cause everything that slows him down in his advance towards Karachi is a strategic victory imho.

After the fall of Lahore now his troops are advancing towards Ralpawindi. Multan is again heavily bombed and we're now accepting its fall as a matter of fact. I'll keep what's left of my 4Es to strike Multan as soon as it becomes "red" :-)

Then it comes the pacific...it seems that there's an Air combat TF somewhere between Johnston Is and Midway....i hd a small TF composed of 3 AKLs that was heading to Johnston is that inverted the route fearing of an "air threat"...my Cats talk about 6 not identified ships...i don't think it's the KB...probably a bait....will keep my asset at PH under a good LBA umbrella and will concentrate the patrol and spotting efforts...let's see!

Lunga reached level 3 AF...a good result indeed! now 100 wildcats are providing Cover while 18 SDBs are already based there...my personal "cactus force" is formed :-)

His Air ASW is really becoming deadly...8 subs lost in the last month....too much!...i have to be more carefull in using them...also because results, till now, have been really insignificant!

More detailed news to follow during the day...

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 10:15:58 AM

GreyJoy

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One of the Tojos sweeps

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 10:16:50 AM

GreyJoy

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Bad coordination for my 4Es strike...they arrived in 4 different groups... :-(

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 10:17:22 AM

GreyJoy

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It hurts...

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 12:10:19 PM

Miller

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60 Nicks lost on the ground has to hurt, I doubt he is producing those in big numbers.

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 12:22:17 PM

SoliInvictus202

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if you want further advice on sub-warfare against your opponent - check out the AARs against your opponent - the one with the fight in Russia... - rader's opponent made good use of his subs.. -

generally - try to keep your subs at least 6 hexes away from any enemy airfield large enough to support ASW duty....

come '43 you will see a boost in your hit rate... - well worth of keeping your subs at sea!

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 1:46:02 PM

ny59giants

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From your screenshots, I see that his DDs were 8 hexes due SW from Karachi. I would mine this hex and then due south towards Bombay.

4e bombers - Again, it comes down to the use of your precious PPs. The leaders will need to be changed (others will need to clarify what characteristics to look for and Tracker will help) and then assign ALL of them to the same Air HQ. For the Americans you should have 10th Air Force HQ (check this leader also) in India. They need to be set at the same altitude on missions. These are the few steps you can take to get better co-ordination of strikes.

_____________________________

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/25/2011 2:26:54 PM

GreyJoy

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I've already ordered to mine that hex...candies should be placed the next turn.

For what concerns 4Es coordination...yes, i completeley forgot that aspect...so much to care about!...i'll try to do that asap! Thx NY59!

We'll slow down a bit this week end...girls, marriage parties and RL problems will keep us busy...

Thanks!

See u soon!

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Post #: 1064

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 1:56:13 AM

Canoerebel

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Bump.

GreyJoy, you have bigger responsibilities than GF, marriage parties, RL matters, estate planning, lawn mowing, higher education, travel, sporting events, and the like. This is WAR man! Get back to it!

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 9:01:25 AM

GreyJoy

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We're back on track guys

.... will update asap...

in the meanwhile i'll just let you know that the KB has sprung up in CENTPAC, raiding.... That the allies have suffered a bad air defeat at Karachi.... That Rader still has 96 units stuck in the desert....

...

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Post #: 1066

RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 11:10:49 AM

GreyJoy

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Ok , Oct 19,20 1942

I gambled and i lost. After the fierce fightings of yesterday i thought he wasn't going to base his bombers back at Jodpur, so i decided to risk and to order to my fighters to stay down and rest for 2 days...well, useless to say he came with 300 sweeps and then 300 bombers escorted by 150 fighters...result is 60 planes of mine torched on the ground and 30 of his destroyed by the Flak...

Luckly enough only 1 spit was destroyed...

His DDs, after the bad encounter with my torpedo bombers of yesterday, moved back to Bombay with one of them getting sunk by the SS Perch who placed 3 fishes in his stomache

In the Pacific the KB simply pops up unseen (but as you remember i had a bad feeling in the previous days) between Canton Island and Christmas sinking 5 AKLs that were moving supplies from Christmas to Baker and Canton Is....so i'd say these first 2 raiding days have been pretty unlucky for Rader...nothing of interest sunk nor spotted

.

The only ships of any interest that i currently have in that area are some xAP/xAKs at Canton Island unloading a base force...so really nothing important. At the same time at Canton i have 100 fighters and some 60 dive bombers...with lots of AA...he better not to come that close

.

I'll keep my CVs far away ...i'll committ them only if he breaks some of his teeth against Canton Is....let's see!

However now we are 100% sure that the whole KB is in the pacific... a usefull information!

(in reply to GreyJoy)

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 11:50:03 AM

GreyJoy

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The KB raiding...

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 1:58:25 PM

Canoerebel

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As the British army surgeon keeps saying in Bridge on the River Kwai, "Madness...madness!"

Failure to impose an airtight blockade on Karachi is pure folly (sorry, rader, if you ever read this; but attacking while letting the Allies readily move in supplies and reinforcements over many months is NUTS!).

You have the RN carriers in theater, right? So now you can shut down enemy combat ship movement in the Arabian Sea? You can also at least toy with the idea of a counterinvasion using some of your Aden reinforcements. You have to be alert to LBA, but he can't have alot covering his rear areas with so much pestering Karachi (or so I think). You might use bad weather to good advantage here.

Mainly, though, you need to be doing some offensive thinking and planning now. Rader doesn't realize it; you may not believe it, but the Battle of Karachi is already decided.

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 2:21:13 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

As the British army surgeon keeps saying in Bridge on the River Kwai, "Madness...madness!"

Failure to impose an airtight blockade on Karachi is pure folly (sorry, rader, if you ever read this; but attacking while letting the Allies readily�move in supplies and reinforcements over many months is NUTS!).

You have the RN carriers in theater, right?� So now you can shut down enemy combat ship movement in the Arabian Sea?� You can also at least toy with the idea of a counterinvasion using some of your Aden reinforcements.� You have to be alert to LBA, but he can't have alot covering his rear areas with so much pestering Karachi (or so I think).� You might use bad weather to good advantage here.

Mainly, though, you need to be doing some offensive thinking and planning now.� Rader doesn't realize it; you may not believe it, but the Battle of Karachi is already decided.

Hi CR!

Had to send the CVs back to UK in order to start gaining PPs back again...

...those two CVs were costing me 130 PP every day!

So i kept them just untill i had escorted the 2 Indian Divisions of reinforcements from Aden to Karachi and the first 140k supplies...then i sent them back

His Netties are in Diego, Scoodra and Bombay...really hard to think about a counterinvasion without any CV cover.

However i really like the idea of knowing where the KB is... 1943 is not that far away and Aden Channell will be open in 7 months...i'm thinking about a plan...

Karachi, i'm sure of that, won't fall untill the end of next summer, no matter what. 9000 AVs are simply too much. He'll need lot of time to reduce it.

If during the next months i manage to advance in the solomons (let's say untill Bouganville) and to take PM...so consolidate my perimeter... I think i'll be ready to send by the end of march 1943 a HUGE Convoy to Aden, with 200/300k supplies, 2/3 divisions, planes and stuff...along with my 6 CVs...counterinvading at Surat...with 3 Indian Divisions, 3 U.S. Divisions...tanks...oh lord...that would be magnificent!

Anyway i know need to focus on my defences. As long as i keep Karachi Air Force alive he won't be going anywhere.

I'll let his KB draining his fuel tanks sinking empty transports (i have numbers of them to spare). These raids won't change the fact that the allies are advancing in SOPAC and without some LCUs to defend the islands he won't be able to stop us just using the KB...

(in reply to Canoerebel)

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 2:49:32 PM

GreyJoy

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Forgot to say that i listened to NY59Giants and reorganized my bombing air army in Karachi. Now all the american bombers are under the command of the 10thUSAFF and all leaders have been checked and, when needed, replaced.

Now the fighter force is reorganized around the 10th USAFF (for the americans) and the 221st RAF group for the Tommies.

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 2:59:40 PM

jeffk3510

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

As the British army surgeon keeps saying in Bridge on the River Kwai, "Madness...madness!"

Failure to impose an airtight blockade on Karachi is pure folly (sorry, rader, if you ever read this; but attacking while letting the Allies readily�move in supplies and reinforcements over many months is NUTS!).

You have the RN carriers in theater, right?� So now you can shut down enemy combat ship movement in the Arabian Sea?� You can also at least toy with the idea of a counterinvasion using some of your Aden reinforcements.� You have to be alert to LBA, but he can't have alot covering his rear areas with so much pestering Karachi (or so I think).� You might use bad weather to good advantage here.

Mainly, though, you need to be doing some offensive thinking and planning now.� Rader doesn't realize it; you may not believe it, but the Battle of Karachi is already decided.

Agreed.

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 3:03:52 PM

wpurdom

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What are your victory point ratios?

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 3:12:15 PM

GreyJoy

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Something like 35000 to 13000...

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 3:14:16 PM

Canoerebel

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GreyJoy, your mindset is interesting as conveyed by your "Karachi won't fall until next summer if ever..." comment. Son, there is NO WAY Karachi will fall. The Allies will continue to grow stronger, to get better equipment and aircraft, and rader is going to have to start paying more attention to his perimeter. The chances of Karachi falling will not increase with time, they will decrease...and they're already at least than 1/100th of 1%.

The Battle of Karachi ended before it began. You need to recognize that so that you can quickly shift over to a new world-view - a new paradigm - in which you are alert to opportunities to attack rather than focusing on the defensive.

Another possibility to at least evaluate - move your remaining Aden troops down to Capetown and then over to Oz. Combine those troops with some of your Australian troops to invade Timor or New Guinea (or, if my memory is flawed and rader has any part of Oz, then begin there). You can begin prepping now and can have the American carriers in support by the time all the various elements are in place.

Not saying you should do that, but rather that it's the kind of things you should be mulling over since from this day forward you need not have a defensive mindset only in the western half of the map.

Another possibility to mull is flooding Karachi with all remaining Aden reinforcements to be in position to try some flanking moves in northwest Oz. I'm not sure this is a good plan, because it puts all your eggs in one basket, but you ought to at least evaluate the possibilities.

Once rader decides to withdraw or is forced to withdraw, he's going to be vulnerable. You'll be hot on his heels with a hugely strong army and airforce. What begins as an orderly retirement for him will turn into a rout. You'll even have paratroops available to dog his retreat paths. In my game with Q-Ball, he got 10 divisions out of India in good shape, but the other seven were wrecked. It's essentially impossible for a strong army to retire in the face of a strong army without things going very badly.

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 3:15:47 PM

jeffk3510

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GreyJoy - I second that as well. Karachi will not fall, and no, I did not stay at a Holliday Inn last night...

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 3:44:04 PM

GreyJoy

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CR, thanks for your insight.
I do see a possibility of Karachi falling.
If Rader moves 20.000 AVs there and start to bomb the base with troops, BBs and 3/400 bombers every day, supplies will run dry very fast and my 9000 AVs will become 2400 worth AVs...and with these numbers he'll be able to finally kill me...but it will take him LOT of time...i bet at least 9 months of full siege...and it is in this window that i have to prepare my counterattack.

My positions in SOPAC will surely become handy once 1943 toys will be available. If i manage to get to Bouganville then i'll just have to wait, dig in, and slowly build up my air force in the area...from there i could threaten not only Truk...but the northern coast of NG even without bringing my CVs into account.

In India i think the best solution will be to try to counterland from Aden directly to India.
I do not have the APs to move all my Aden reinforcements to anywhere else in one time...and the communication from Aden to the rest of the world won't start untill may 43...so i really think the best thing to do is to start prepping my reinforcement convoy right now and to have it ready by 01.02.1943.

Remember also that at the moment the possible best option for Rader seems to be to get to Karachi and leave 4000 AVs there....and then redeploy the rest of his army, so abbadoning the idea of a siege but imposing a blockade that, de facto, denies the pacific war to the Brits.

Sumatra eh!?....i think that using the Aden "Wormhole" is the best shot i have...less exposure (sp?!) time than anyother place...with a couple of turns of bad weather i can easily be on the landing spot almost unseen...

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 3:46:25 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

GreyJoy - I second that as well.� Karachi will not fall, and no, I did not stay at a Holliday Inn last night...

:-)

For sure it won't fall easily...but, notheless, it will be blocked and turned into a giant POW camp...Consider that Rader has already done that in China...he didn't take Chungking...he simply put 5 divisions there and moved away with the rest of his armies

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 3:55:06 PM

Andy Mac

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Remeber in mid 43 the Med opens and you can send TF's, LCU and Air groups by seadirect from the US West Coast to Aden.........also Aden becomes a major supply source at that point

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RE: Bloody Skies - 6/27/2011 4:18:25 PM

Canoerebel

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(accidentally posted this in my own AAR first - it's GJ's fault, or so I claim)

You're still thinking defensive! Snap out of it, man!
In late 1942 and early '43, the Indian units begin to transition over to higher quality squads and armaments. They become much more powerful. In addition, you get more and better fighters, and to a lesser extent bombers. It's going to be a long time, if ever, before rader can impose control of the skies over Karachi from Hyderabad, so you'll get alot more supplies in the meantime.
If you need some carriers to handle CAP to get supply to Karachi, devote your sizeable CVE component over the coming months. If necessary, you can almost certainly run the blockade from Capetown to Aden without too much risk from Socatra. It might also give you a chance to evaluate Socotra's strength as you sneak by and thumb your nose at a frustrated enemy.
Once you gain carriers in the Arabian Sea, you'll feel better about your offensive capaibility. But don't lollygag. What happens in the Pacific is still fairly unimportant compared to India. It's good that you're making some progress in the Solomons, but that's a long way from vital territory for Japan. There's no place he'd rather have you advancing than there.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

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