RE: A look at Barbarossa.

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> After Action Report >> RE: A look at Barbarossa.

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RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/22/2011 8:44:05 PM

Red Prince

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The situation near Moscow:

Picture taken at end of Axis impulse #5, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
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Post #: 391

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/22/2011 8:46:04 PM

Red Prince

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And, in the South, I may be out of supply, but I just gotta get one of those cities! I just gotta!!!

Picture taken at end of Axis impulse #5, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 392

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 7:30:03 PM

Orm

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The game gets close to the end. This is likely my last impulse of the game, maybe even the last impulse of the game. It is 20% chance for the game to end. And I am feeling desperate so I am looking for desperate attacks. With most of my forces disorganized I have a hard time finding attacks. But eventually I find this attack. And HQ that I can attack and if I succeed I put alot of German units out of supply. And none of the pesky Stukas can interfere and save von Leeb.

But in the end I asked myself if I feel lucky and I didn't so I cancelled the attack. No fun!

I feel like such a chicken.

Picture taken at Land Combat Declaration of Allied impulse #8, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Orm -- 8/23/2011 7:31:26 PM >

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Post #: 393

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 7:38:04 PM

Orm

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In the south I do have one attack. If I succeed with getting a breakthrough on this attack I can blitz move into Rostov and that would change the score to a draw. With even more luck the game could then end.

Picture taken at Land Combat Declaration of Allied impulse #8, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Orm -- 8/23/2011 7:39:13 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 394

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 7:48:06 PM

Orm

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Here Germany, of course, has some of those Ju-87 bombers that I have begun to really dislike.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 395

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 8:00:02 PM

Orm

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The odds are really not in my favor but I am desperate so...

20% chance to liberate Rostov. Or 30% if I the fractional odds die roll is in my favor. I just wish I would feel confident with this attack. Or even lucky but after my two failed attacks on Tula I do not feel that luck is with me in this game.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 396

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 8:05:54 PM

Orm

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So close, but yet so far away. I needed an 8 and rolled a 7. Bah!

And that was the last hurrah for the Soviet forces.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 397

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 8:15:51 PM

Orm

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The north front. If you could call that a front.

Picture taken at end of Allied impulse #8, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

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< Message edited by Orm -- 8/23/2011 8:16:41 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 398

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 8:17:56 PM

Orm

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And the south. It looks even worse than the north.

Picture taken at end of Allied impulse #8, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

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< Message edited by Orm -- 8/23/2011 8:18:22 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 399

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/23/2011 9:30:08 PM

Red Prince

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Probably the last weather report:

Picture taken at start of Axis impulse #11, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

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< Message edited by Red Prince -- 8/23/2011 9:31:04 PM >

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 400

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:23:08 AM

Red Prince

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There is now a 50% chance that this is the last impulse of the game. I really wanted to take a crack at Moscow, but I just couldn't get enough factors to make the attack in Blizzard even remotely worthwhile. Nearby, though, with the help of the 6th Motorized Panzer Engineers, I can make one last attempt on Kalinin.

Picture taken at Land Combat Declaration of Axis impulse #11, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 8/24/2011 4:24:01 AM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 401

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:25:06 AM

Red Prince

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This is 47:11 (4:1, 27% of 5:1), which reduces to 3:2 and change due to the weather. An attempt to provide support by von Leeb fails. Fractional odds are not successful, but I'm not concerned. It doesn't really matter if you're using the 3:2 or 2:1 CRT if you roll a '2' for the attack!

I blame the failed attack on those incompetent engineers! First in, first to die, you know. Failing to build the brisge necessary for the mechanized corps to cross into the city before chewing on a grenade was utterly irresponsible. My only regret is that you can't execute a dead man for his failures.

Picture taken at Land Combat Resolution of Axis impulse #11, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

(in reply to Red Prince)

Post #: 402

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:28:12 AM

Red Prince

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The only other real activity this impulse is the LIII Motorixed Corps' rush over to Saratov, claiming another Victory city.

Picture taken at end of Axis impulse #11, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 403

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:30:35 AM

Red Prince

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Pointless as it is in this weather, I repositioned a few aircraft near Leningrad, just in case. With no HQs remaining with reorganization abilities, it's time to end the impulse.

And the End-of-Turn roll is . . .

Picture taken at end of Axis impulse #11, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 8/24/2011 4:32:10 AM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 404

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:31:29 AM

Red Prince

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The final results: Germany - 23, USSR - 19

I'd like to thank Steve, Peter, and Orm for the advice they offered which prevented me from making the kinds of mistakes that would have made this game not only a loss, but an early loss. I owe this victory to them, to a lot of good luck, and to a long summer that held on into September.

Orm made this happen, and for me this was a fun and challenging game, a great education, and between us we managed to track down several bugs that Steve was then able to exterminate. I hope you enjoyed this look at Barbarossa.

(I'm sure we can come up with a few more images to post showing the final outcome.)

Picture taken at end of Final Victory, Jan/Feb 1942 (Turn 5 of 5)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 8/24/2011 4:34:18 AM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 405

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:40:54 AM

Red Prince

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Here's a look at the final Global Map, in Control View:

Attachment (1)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 406

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:59:59 AM

Red Prince

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And the detailed map, showing the full region:

Attachment (1)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 407

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 7:52:49 AM

Joseignacio

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Thanks a lot! And BTW, Orm, am I wrong or you wouldn't have been able to blitz to Rostov because of climate? Or it was "only" snow down in the south? Cannot knwo exactly if Rostov is in the mediterranean climate area from the climate map...

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Post #: 408

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 8:07:50 AM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Thanks a lot! And BTW, Orm, am I wrong or you wouldn't have been able to blitz to Rostov because of climate? Or it was "only" snow down in the south? Cannot knwo exactly if Rostov is in the mediterranean climate area from the climate map...

It was only snow. But the weather did not actually matter in this case since we played with the option Railway Movement Bonus.

Edit: If you look closely on the picture you can see a difference in the graphic for the weather. I recommend the picture in post# 399 where the upper portion has Blizzard and the lower has snow.

AiF/PatiF Option 37: (Railway movement bonus) A land unit pays 1 less movement point (minimum 1) to
enter a hex when it moves, or advances after combat, along a railway (but not a road). This reduction occurs after
you apply any weather (see 8.2) or overrun (see 11.11.6) effects.

< Message edited by Orm -- 8/24/2011 8:11:22 AM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 409

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 10:17:08 AM

Joseignacio

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Thanks. Now, I can see it (in 399).

As for the blitz, I wouldn't see it very clear if it was blizzard, because the rule says:

quote:

AiF/PatiF Option 37: (Railway movement bonus) A land unit pays 1 less movement point (minimum 1) to
enter a hex when it moves, or advances after combat, along a railway (but not a road). This reduction occurs after
you apply any weather (see 8.2) or overrun (see 11.11.6) effects.

We are speaking of entering a hex moving or advancing after combat but not along a railway. If I understand the rule well, you need to make your first move or advance along a railway, not just end the advance in it, as a condition to be able to make a second move (blitz move).

Another question. I saw railroads all along the map, but where are roads? i cannot see the map now at work...

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 8/24/2011 10:18:16 AM >

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Post #: 410

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 10:29:52 AM

Red Prince

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Not sure if I understand correctly what you are saying about the rail movement rule, but the way it is applied is that any move along a railway, at any point in the move, gets the bonus. You don't have to start the full move on a railway.

There are roads in Finland and in China. Check out some of the early postst about Murmansk to see them, or Post #355 on page 12.
-----
Edit: Actually, I think there are roads in Canada & Siberia, too. I'll check.

< Message edited by Red Prince -- 8/24/2011 10:31:47 AM >

_____________________________

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 411

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 10:38:47 AM

Orm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Thanks. Now, I can see it (in 399).

As for the blitz, I wouldn't see it very clear if it was blizzard, because the rule says:

quote:

AiF/PatiF Option 37: (Railway movement bonus) A land unit pays 1 less movement point (minimum 1) to
enter a hex when it moves, or advances after combat, along a railway (but not a road). This reduction occurs after
you apply any weather (see 8.2) or overrun (see 11.11.6) effects.

We are speaking of entering a hex moving or advancing after combat but not along a railway. If I understand the rule well, you need to make your first move or advance along a railway, not just end the advance in it, as a condition to be able to make a second move (blitz move).

Another question. I saw railroads all along the map, but where are roads? i cannot see the map now at work...

You are right. The first hex would not have been along a railroad so the blizzard weather would have stopped it. My bad.

I had originally planned to attack from one hex to the right along the railroad. But due to my opponent succeeded in getting a breakthrough on the attack close to Stavropol blocked my supply to that hex. I had to rely on sea supply for this attack and that did not reach to the railroad hex.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 412

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 10:39:54 AM

Red Prince

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None in Canada, but this shows a road in Siberia. I've edited it so that it is yellow instead of brown, making it easier to see.

Attachment (1)

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Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it!
-Lazarus Long, RAH

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Post #: 413

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 10:51:31 AM

Joseignacio

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Not sure if I understand correctly what you are saying about the rail movement rule, but the way it is applied is that any move along a railway, at any point in the move, gets the bonus. You don't have to start the full move on a railway.

There are roads in Finland and in China. Check out some of the early postst about Murmansk to see them, or Post #355 on page 12.
-----
Edit: Actually, I think there are roads in Canada & Siberia, too. I'll check.

Then, I think it's incorrectly applied, IMHO.

Thanks about the info on roads! And the map.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 8/24/2011 10:52:36 AM >

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Post #: 414

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 3:47:25 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Not sure if I understand correctly what you are saying about the rail movement rule, but the way it is applied is that any move along a railway, at any point in the move, gets the bonus. You don't have to start the full move on a railway.

There are roads in Finland and in China. Check out some of the early postst about Murmansk to see them, or Post #355 on page 12.
-----
Edit: Actually, I think there are roads in Canada & Siberia, too. I'll check.

Then, I think it's incorrectly applied, IMHO.

Thanks about the info on roads! And the map.

The important new roads we added are in China. There they simulate the fact that rivers were major communication links for supply. Rather than add railroads, which enable moving units quickly, we added a few roads to help out the supply situation in central China. We didn't want to create new rules regarding supply using rivers, so the roads are a kludge - but one that works pretty well.

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Post #: 415

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:05:12 PM

Centuur

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Well done, gentlemen. Orm got unlucky at some key points, however Red Prince made a really good Barbarossa (if just a little lucky, but without luck...).

On the bugs: were there many? (I don't think so, but I'm curious...). After all, I want to buy the game at Christmas 2012 (won't we all... impatient lot that we are...

).

Or is Steve satisfied with the results?

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Peter

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Post #: 416

RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 4:49:24 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Well done, gentlemen. Orm got unlucky at some key points, however Red Prince made a really good Barbarossa (if just a little lucky, but without luck...).

Warspite1

As Napoleon asked when being told about a good potential officer; "Yes, but is he lucky?"

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RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 5:18:25 PM

Red Prince

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Well done, gentlemen. Orm got unlucky at some key points, however Red Prince made a really good Barbarossa (if just a little lucky, but without luck...).

On the bugs: were there many? (I don't think so, but I'm curious...). After all, I want to buy the game at Christmas 2012 (won't we all... impatient lot that we are...� ).

Or is Steve satisfied with the results?�

Thanks.

There really weren't that many bugs. A few of them were mentioned in this thread while we played, like the ability to place aircraft in the Reserve Pool when setting up aligned minor nations. Overall, I think there were maybe half a dozen bugs, with variations. None of these had a major impact on gameplay, and most (if not all) are easy to isolate and fix (so I'm told).

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RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/24/2011 6:08:48 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Well done, gentlemen. Orm got unlucky at some key points, however Red Prince made a really good Barbarossa (if just a little lucky, but without luck...).

On the bugs: were there many? (I don't think so, but I'm curious...). After all, I want to buy the game at Christmas 2012 (won't we all... impatient lot that we are...� ).

Or is Steve satisfied with the results?�

The major problem was the combination of the 1D10 CRT with Fractional Odds. In most games the Fractional Odds optional rule is used with the 2D10 CRT. I had never seriously looked at the CWIF code for the combination Bjorn & Aaron were using and there were a lot of problems. But one pass through that section of code cleaned them all up.

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RE: A look at Barbarossa. - 8/29/2011 6:08:03 PM

Villain

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I really enjoyed reading this thread and look forward to more AAR's!
If you didn't have to take pictures (and edit them in some cases) how long would this entire sceanario have taken from start to finish?

I don't suppose there's a time limit (similar to a chess clock) for each side to complete it's turn? (or whether that would be required/nice to have in head to head play)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 420