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RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 2:59:54 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Ironman Club. Not for the timid or faint of heart. Gladiators to the death. Do not start something you can't finish. Enlisting is optional; being stricken from the honor role is not. The only way out is for the game to finish to the last turn or if your opponent agrees to premature cessation of hostilities.

Do not promise someone a match you won't finish; it is unsportsmanlike, self-centered, and rude. It disrespects the time and effort the abandonned player has made to entertaining the slackard.

There is no reason to not start a thread where jilted players can list the names of players who prematurely abandon games without mutual consent. It would be a great asset to those looking for reliable opponents; or conversely start a "Reliable Opponent" thread.


Marquo

< Message edited by Marquo -- 8/30/2011 3:00:20 PM >

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 31
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 3:04:20 PM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 565
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
What makes this especially annoying in WITE is that the Axis have a period of fun for the first 17 turns and then the Soviets will have their fun. An Axis player who takes his fun and then quits is the online gaming equivalent of a poor lover!


I agree, the first 17 turns as Sov are both tedious (tons of admin/reorg) and depressing (armies smashed, cities and factories taken), so for a German player to quit after the first summer is very unsportsmanlike. While the German player might not want to play to the bitter end, you'd think they'd be willing to play until the end of 1942, or something...


ROLF! At least there is 1944 campaing if you can fool your german opponent to play it for while you can have your payback as Soviet side.


(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 32
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 5:42:18 PM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson
ROLF! At least there is 1944 campaing if you can fool your german opponent to play it for while you can have your payback as Soviet side.

To complete the effect, someone should create an alternate 1944 scenario where the Germans get equipped with a dozen Laser-equipped Maus tanks and Cyborg Rifle Squads exactly 17 turns after the start of the game.

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 33
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 8:14:49 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Only a German player can tell you how likely that game is to be turned around.

I need practice as the Germans (Soviet fan boy here!) so if you can get his password off him, I'm more than willing to see how it goes and try to take over from him.

I won't be a swift player though, as I only have time for 2/3 turns a week (have 1GC running for over six months as the Soviet, and we are only in Oct '42 and I want to keep that going as I think its still fairly open about who is going to win)




Ok, the drama of this story now continues. I need more opinions if I'm out of whack on this being something my opponent should agree on. As you can see above Encircled has graciously offered to take over this game. I've sent a few polite requests to my opponent to PM or Email Encircled with the password so he can play this on if he decides to after looking it over. I've yet to hear back from my opponent yet, which is kind of pissing me off even more. Should I feel this strongly that he should agree to this? Would it be possible to have a tester or veteran WitE member act as a mediator to help facilitate the passing of the game over to Encircled?

Looking desperately for anybody to play the hero and help there to be a somewhat happy end to this story.

Thanks

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 34
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 8:33:13 PM   
ETF


Posts: 1748
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		I would like to know the name......too convenient to quit just a things get a little closer in the game. Good to track..... I would not want to play with him. Too much of a risk. I would hope he would play out at least till the end of 42.
Just my two cents....

Hats off to such Honorable gamers as Encircled!

< Message edited by ETF -- 8/30/2011 8:35:46 PM >

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(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 35
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 8:50:19 PM   
Hagleboz


Posts: 65
Joined: 1/27/2009
From: Murrieta, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ETF

I would like to know the name......too convenient to quit just a things get a little closer in the game. Good to track..... I would not want to play with him. Too much of a risk. I would hope he would play out at least till the end of 42.
Just my two cents....



It's not that big of a secret, the drama unfolded over in the AAR's.

(in reply to ETF)
Post #: 36
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 9:20:32 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline 		I really don't know what the problem is. Do you want to batter a beaten opponent to the bitter end? How unseemly. A win is a win, and if your opponent fights to the bitter end and loses or resigns, it matters not. You won. Enjoy! If you want a good challenge, increase your chances by soliciting an experienced opponent with some wins under their belt.

_____________________________

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-Leon Trotsky

(in reply to Hagleboz)
Post #: 37
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 9:37:27 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

I really don't know what the problem is. Do you want to batter a beaten opponent to the bitter end? How unseemly. A win is a win, and if your opponent fights to the bitter end and loses or resigns, it matters not. You won. Enjoy! If you want a good challenge, increase your chances by soliciting an experienced opponent with some wins under their belt.



I think you're missing my point and the entire reason why I like to play these games.
It's not really about winning or losing for me. I think it's playing the under different circumstances that make it fun for me. If every time I played WitE it followed the same exact path, I would get bored with the game. So maybe I'm in a better position to win as Sov, but even if things were reversed I would still be playing. I hope that makes sense Mehring, not sure how else to explain my logic or enjoyment in playing these types of games.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 8/30/2011 9:38:10 PM >

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 38
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 9:46:21 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		Good News. My opponent has thankfully decided to give the password to Encircled. We might even go back a few turns if needed for Encircled to play on. Still up to him if he wants the challenge, but it was a nice gesture either way.

Whether the game continues or not, I give my opponent a 'thanks' for this action of good sportsmanship.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 8/30/2011 9:47:05 PM >

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 39
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 9:51:41 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		I think that it would be a nice feature enhancement to have a special 'End Game' button with more choices as how it should end. Maybe two new features:

- End Game w/AI taking control: so if a player does want to play on, he can end the game this way and a turn will be saved giving future control to the AI.

- End Game w/new player: same conditions when a player doesn't want to play on, but now the password in the saved turn is reset so another human make take control and play on. Of course this can still be accomplished as happened here, for the previous player to just convey the password to the player taking over. However, sometimes we re-uses passwords and players might not want to disclose them in this manner.

What do people think the value of this feature would be?

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 40
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:01:55 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehring

I really don't know what the problem is. Do you want to batter a beaten opponent to the bitter end? How unseemly. A win is a win, and if your opponent fights to the bitter end and loses or resigns, it matters not. You won. Enjoy! If you want a good challenge, increase your chances by soliciting an experienced opponent with some wins under their belt.



I think you're missing my point and the entire reason why I like to play these games.
It's not really about winning or losing for me. I think it's playing the under different circumstances that make it fun for me. If every time I played WitE it followed the same exact path, I would get bored with the game. So maybe I'm in a better position to win as Sov, but even if things were reversed I would still be playing. I hope that makes sense Mehring, not sure how else to explain my logic or enjoyment in playing these types of games.

Yes I do understand that for some people the situation and what you do with it is interresting, me included at times. You can learn an enormous amount from playing situations you don't necessarily have any hope of winning, particularly if it's a new situation for you or you think of a new way to play it. But that's not for everyone and not for all situations.

You are inverting portsmanship. If you have a fight with someone and they give in but you insist they stand up so you can keep on hitting them, is that sporting? No it's not, it's thuggery. Bottom line, a win is a win and if you're looking for and get something else, that's a bonus. Find someone who shares your enjoyment but don't expect everyone else will or even should.

_____________________________

“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”
-Leon Trotsky

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 41
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:21:53 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		>Do you want to batter a beaten opponent to the bitter end?

No; and I would almost always accept a resignation. It's disappearing into cyberspance without so much as a goodbye that is frustrating.

Marquo

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 42
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:25:44 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		Well I understand what you're saying Mehring. But I don't look at it as beating on my opponent, just playing the game with the circumstances. Each player is entitled to view it how they want. It's just a game and I believe for me the fun part has nothing to do with if I'm on the losing end or not. Just playing the game and doing the best I can until the game ends. But we don't all think that way from what I understand. Yes, if there's a clear difference in ability, I probably wouldn't start a game with that person. So we don't always know. For example, I don't think, until more exp, that I would play a game against ComradeP. Since from the start it would always feel like the outcome was doom before t1.

(in reply to mmarquo)
Post #: 43
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:35:22 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Marquo, I would like to play you some day.

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Post #: 44
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:40:36 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline
quote:

Yes I do understand that for some people the situation and what you do with it is interresting, me included at times. You can learn an enormous amount from playing situations you don't necessarily have any hope of winning, particularly if it's a new situation for you or you think of a new way to play it. But that's not for everyone and not for all situations.


Which is what I'm attempting to do here!

First turn (well, turn 38) sent back so lets see what I can do to salvage the situation.....

I've always wanted to be the new V3!



_____________________________


(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 45
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:47:10 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		Yes, thanks again Encircled. I just send you an email to propose a few things.

- going back 5-7 turns, about the point my opponent decided to just retreat 2-3 hexes each turn. Although this did save more of his troops, but now the line is further west then historical. He has over 3 million men and I think over 2.5k tanks to start t38. Which is better than I ever did for t38 as axis. Of course the Sov have 7 million men and 6k tanks.

- spending the spring moving the Soviets back to a more historical 42 summer start line. Yes, letting Leningrad get cut off as it was in summer 42.

I'm up for making it fun for Encircle. As odd it this might seem, with all the attention to organized my troops, I almost have this parent type connect with them. To seem how they will do with what I've tried to accomplish in adjustments in units and leadership. Probably more then people care to know about my attachment to my first real Soviet CG41 game.

< Message edited by jzardos -- 8/30/2011 10:48:42 PM >

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 46
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:51:50 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Stick to where you are

You deserve a chance to continue playing from this situation, and I want a chance to play from a poor situation as its all good practice.

Plus if I lose, I can always blame it on my previous German commander.....

_____________________________


(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 47
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 8/30/2011 10:58:07 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		And if you win it..... I won't say it

_____________________________


(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 48
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 9/1/2011 12:03:15 AM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		I was the opponent here, for the record.

quote:

Ok, the drama of this story now continues. I need more opinions if I'm out of whack on this being something my opponent should agree on. As you can see above Encircled has graciously offered to take over this game. I've sent a few polite requests to my opponent to PM or Email Encircled with the password so he can play this on if he decides to after looking it over. I've yet to hear back from my opponent yet, which is kind of pissing me off even more. Should I feel this strongly that he should agree to this? Would it be possible to have a tester or veteran WitE member act as a mediator to help facilitate the passing of the game over to Encircled?

Looking desperately for anybody to play the hero and help there to be a somewhat happy end to this story.

Thanks


This is an example of why I stopped playing this game. jzardos expects an answer to emails within hours. And polite does not describe some of the emails I received.

There are two sides to every story and this really needs to end now. I wish jzardos and Encircled good gaming.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 49
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 9/1/2011 9:16:41 AM   
elxaime

 

Posts: 304
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		IMHO, it is perfectly fine for someone to surrender/resign if things have reached a point where they are not enjoying the game. I would make one distinction though. If someone communicates and states the reasons for it, it shows some respect for the other person's expenditure of time as well. But far too often these things end with someone just deciding not to send or reply to emails anymore. I had that happen some time ago with a game of Moscow 41 - the German side player was unhappy with the way the game was going and just stopped sending turns and did not reply to my querying email. That is no good.

So, as long as people show mutual respect and communicate, I see no problem ending a game early. I do see a problem with people just dropping out without a word.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 50
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 9/1/2011 9:28:14 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elxaime
So, as long as people show mutual respect and communicate, I see no problem ending a game early. I do see a problem with people just dropping out without a word.


One of the problems with server games is that unless you've exchanged e-mail addresses on the forum, there is no way to communicate with your opponent...

(in reply to elxaime)
Post #: 51
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 9/1/2011 3:01:22 PM   
mmarquo


Posts: 1376
Joined: 9/26/2000
Status: offline 		Michael,

When 1.05 comes out we can hammer out terms; my response time can only be 2 -3 moves/week at this time of year and given my other matches.

Marquo

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 52
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 9/2/2011 12:09:50 AM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3650
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

I think that it would be a nice feature enhancement to have a special 'End Game' button with more choices as how it should end. Maybe two new features:

- End Game w/AI taking control: so if a player does want to play on, he can end the game this way and a turn will be saved giving future control to the AI.

- End Game w/new player: same conditions when a player doesn't want to play on, but now the password in the saved turn is reset so another human make take control and play on. Of course this can still be accomplished as happened here, for the previous player to just convey the password to the player taking over. However, sometimes we re-uses passwords and players might not want to disclose them in this manner.

What do people think the value of this feature would be?



In WITP we had a few major games that were passed off so that the whole war got finished. no reason you can't do that now with WITE. Well as long as you are not doing a server game.

_____________________________

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(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 53
RE: Community Awareness: gaming etiquette - 9/2/2011 12:45:23 AM   
jazman

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Crush Depth
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


In WITP we had a few major games that were passed off so that the whole war got finished. no reason you can't do that now with WITE. Well as long as you are not doing a server game.


So now the demand for German players to pick up 43-45 goes up... Good chance to hone your German 43-45 skills.

If you wonder if you are dealing with someone who can't take a beating as the German, play the 44 campaign. It's a morale check. If they're up to it, just skip it, and play what you really want. If they can't stand the idea, you know that, come 44 and you're beating them down, they won't be able to stand it.


< Message edited by jazman -- 9/2/2011 12:54:12 AM >

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Post #: 54
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