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FBD Units and Attached Construction Units

 
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FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 9/30/2011 5:45:45 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I have tried an experiment recently. Each German FBD has several Construction Units attached to it, roughly 6 or 7 Battalions. These units are NOT dispatched to repair rail lines, and do not, as far as I can tell, help any

I picked one FBD, and re-assigned all the Construction Units to OKH, to see what would happen. This costs 1 AP of course per unit.

The result?

*There is no degradation in the ability of the FBD unit to repair rail
*The units I assigned to OKH are now also busily repairing rail lines (and presumably helping with fort construction too)

Conclusion:
-Re-Assign all Construction SUs from FBDs, if you want to actually use them

Am I off base here? Is this gamey? I only did it to one FBD so far.

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RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 9/30/2011 6:26:58 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline 		Considering Soviet play advocates creating as many sapper regiments and RR regiments as you can as quickly as you can, this would not be considered gamey by any stretch at all. It costs AP.

I will do this henceforth - good idea.


_____________________________

Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 2
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 9/30/2011 6:31:30 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		The FBD units have a lot of manpower.

Get em digging!

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Post #: 3
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 9/30/2011 7:49:13 PM   
marty_01

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 2/10/2011
Status: offline 		There is a reduction in RRV as a function of how many construction support units are initially "organic" to a given FBD unit. AND; you can’t attach or re-attach construction support units to an FBD unit. Once you have reduced the RRV via detachment of its organic construction units you can't raise it back-up again.

I want to say -- based on some of what I have seen during rail conversion\repair -- that RRV makes a difference in how far ahead of an active railhead you can convert\repair. And I am sure someone will be quick to quote the manual on this -- but I had asked this of Joel Billings’s many-many moons ago. Billings was of the opinion that RRV has never functioned the way it's described in the manual. I've actually experienced a number of instances where I was piggy-backing two FBDs on a critical line where I seemingly kept outrunning the threshold RRV of the FBD units. Moreover, I had the MPs to convert\repair a given line, but couldn’t as I think I was too far out in front of my active railhead.

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 4
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 9/30/2011 8:29:25 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty_01

There is a reduction in RRV as a function of how many construction support units are initially "organic" to a given FBD unit. AND; you can’t attach or re-attach construction support units to an FBD unit. Once you have reduced the RRV via detachment of its organic construction units you can't raise it back-up again.

I want to say -- based on some of what I have seen during rail conversion\repair -- that RRV makes a difference in how far ahead of an active railhead you can convert\repair. And I am sure someone will be quick to quote the manual on this -- but I had asked this of Joel Billings’s many-many moons ago. Billings was of the opinion that RRV has never functioned the way it's described in the manual. I've actually experienced a number of instances where I was piggy-backing two FBDs on a critical line where I seemingly kept outrunning the threshold RRV of the FBD units. Moreover, I had the MPs to convert\repair a given line, but couldn’t as I think I was too far out in front of my active railhead.


I've noticed inexplicable inconsistencies in how far ahead I can go, too (1941).

_____________________________

Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders

(in reply to marty_01)
Post #: 5
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 9/30/2011 10:11:58 PM   
chasman

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 12/5/2010
Status: offline 		Don't remove the SUs from a Soviet FBD though. I did that to one and the thing wouldn't repair at all.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 6
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/1/2011 2:42:35 AM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		What is the differance between an O.T. Construction unit and a regular one?

(in reply to chasman)
Post #: 7
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/1/2011 11:57:32 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline 		Maybe O.T means they work overtime?

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 8
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/2/2011 1:12:38 AM   
OTZ

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Organisation Todt. They were the Reich's civil engineers. The regular Construction Battalions would be the organic units of the Heer/SS. OT would be complementary to those units - bonus workers!

< Message edited by OTZ -- 10/2/2011 1:15:33 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/4/2011 11:38:45 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		QUICK UPDATE: DON'T DO THIS!!!!!!

It worked for me, until I removed the LAST Construction Unit. Now, my FBD is worthless. I will probably disband it and run with only 4.



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Post #: 10
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/5/2011 12:29:56 AM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline 		OUCH!

_____________________________

Fall 2021-Playing: Stalingrad'42 (GMT); Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Masters of the Air (GREAT BOOK!)
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game
Painting: WHFB Lizardmen leaders

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 11
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/5/2011 1:29:31 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		Did you do this in a pbem game? 

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Post #: 12
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/5/2011 3:14:07 AM   
Farfarer61

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		I guess the real question is what is the minimum number of Const/Labour Units that need to be attached to an FBD so that it can convert the 3 hexes ( 5 in the Baltic states)? In 42 I am hoping to pump Hiwis into these units and free up GE squads for otehr things - we will see.

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 13
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/5/2011 6:56:03 PM   
Stoat


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		1) Great post, Q-Ball.
2) The German construction attachments (140 Construction Bns, 14 RAD Lbr Grps & 16 RAD Lbr Dets) may not be effectively utilised in their initial deployment. Most or all of them should be repairing rail for the first summer, after which the Corps should get some back to help dig in for the winter.
3) I think I recall in older patches some months ago that more Const units seemed to be building rail than with recent versions, not sure why...
4) ...except I might have read a rule change somewhere that Const units will not build rail within x hexes of the enemy (is this true?) but can't find the reference, could be mistaken.
5) It would be useful to know just how the ability of FBD/NKPS units to repair rail is related to their attachments.
6) Note that the FBD units do not all have the same attachments (if I'm counting right): while all 5 each have 4 Const Bns, FBD 1-3 each have in addition 3 RAD Lbr Grps while FBD 4 has 1 RAD Lbr Grp & 4 rad lbr dets and FBD 5 has 2 RAD Lbr Grps.
7) I think it would be well worth the 1 AP each to transfer Const attachments to higher HQ's to get more rail building out of it.
8) Maybe it would be best/cheapest to transfer those Const atts to OKH as soon as possible in Summer '41 (they will repair rail up to 90 hexes of OKH as per Rule 7.6.4), so in Fall/Winter '41 OKH can tour the front with its big bucket of Const Bns and reallocate them to the Corps for no AP cost, in a similar fashion as it seems necessary to do at the beginning of each Campaign Game with the rest of the German attachments (sigh).

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GGWitE = GröKAZ ("Greatest Wargame of All Time") - thx to GG, Company & Community for continuing to make it even better!

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Post #: 14
RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units - 10/5/2011 7:19:17 PM   
Stoat


Posts: 37
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		On my #5, in another thread (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2920731) Helpless has said, "RRV value depends on the construction value of attached units".

Looking again at the '41 Campaign T1, 4 FBD's have a RRV ("Rail Repair Value") of 15 while the 5th (FBD 5 in the frozen 11th Army) has a RRV of only 11. I was surprised by this as I had always observed all FBD's to behave the same, using 3 Movement Points to repair rail (1 MP in Baltic Zone).

Taking another quick look, I was even more surprised to observe that while moving does consume an FBD's RRV, repairing rails does not!


_____________________________

GGWitE = GröKAZ ("Greatest Wargame of All Time") - thx to GG, Company & Community for continuing to make it even better!

(in reply to Stoat)
Post #: 15
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