Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

A strange pacific war tale

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> A strange pacific war tale Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 5:26:50 PM   
kaleidoscope


Posts: 27
Joined: 11/22/2006
From: Tennessee
Status: offline 		Read this quite a few years ago
and the story lodged in my memory.

During the reconquest of the Philippines,
the Americans had put an airbase into operation.
The primitive ground radar spotted an approaching contact and a
combat air patrol was vectored to investigate.

The blip was a P-40 and the patrol pilot noticed it
had strange markings, The P-40 was allowed to land
but it did a belly flop and burst into flames.

Wedged inside the cockpit wreckage,
was the mangled remains not only
of the pilot, but an additional passenger both
burnt beyond recognition.

Strangest of all, the P-40 had no landing gear
whatsoever.

The odd markings were early war Army Air Force
markings.

It sounds like this incident could have been some holdout pilot(s)
that had somehow managed to avoid capture during the
initial Japanese conquest, perhaps hiding out at some
remote island airstrip. Or, it could have been a
desperate Japanese suicide mission using
a captured aircraft.

I believe I read it in a book by Reader's Digest
titled "True Stories of World War II". Not sure though,
its been so long ago.

Has anyone heard of this story discussed at all elsewhere
and maybe have additional info?
Post #: 1
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 5:41:25 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		If it had "no landing gear", how did it take off? A slingshot?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to kaleidoscope)
Post #: 2
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 6:34:32 PM   
kaleidoscope


Posts: 27
Joined: 11/22/2006
From: Tennessee
Status: offline 		Elevated inclined ramp with a sea cliff Terminus? :)
That is one reason it is a strange story.





(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 3
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 7:01:09 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I've never heard the story before, but if they had pieced together a plane, they might have had some sort of ejectable landing gear that got them off the ground and then dropped away once airborne.  It's also possible the landing gear was not supposed to drop away, but did accidentally.

Bill


_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to kaleidoscope)
Post #: 4
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 7:10:13 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		Sounds like an urban legend, there is just too much wrong about it.

1. As Terminus says, no landing gear ?

If the pilots were American.
2. How did they know that the Americans had landed ?
3. How did they know which airfield to fly to ?
4. Why fly, if true, the aircraft hasn't flown in 4 years, not quite a safe venture if you can wait for the advance of ground forces instead.
5. In four years they didn't come into contact with any Philippine resistance groups/villagers who could recount the story later ?
6. If they still had the avgas, why not try to escape to the DEI early in the war ?

If Japanese
2. Early war air force markings ? If you want to look American it's not hard to repaint in a modern scheme. In the 4 years the plane would probably have been painted as a test/trainer plane.
3. If I read the story correctly, they tried to land, doesn't sound like a kamikaze attack.
4. 2 guys in the plane for a kamikaze attack ?


_____________________________

The AE-Wiki, help fill it out

(in reply to kaleidoscope)
Post #: 5
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 7:20:17 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		The Japanese did capture early war US aircraft and repainted them in Japanese schemes.  Some of those planes were recaptured later.

It is possible they didn't have enough avgas to get very far.  If they were in contact with the natives, they would have known when the Americans landed, but then the natives they were in contact with would have told the Americans later about the odd Americans with their plane hidden in the jungle.

A plane that hasn't flown in nearly 4 years is going to be in pretty poor condition.  Especially in the jungle.  All the rubber hoses and fittings would rot among other things.

Bill


_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 6
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 7:22:40 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		I've run into the "legend" several times, but with no acreditation. Many aircraft have been launched without permanet landing gear (the ME-163 comes to mind. ). It's a great "ghost story" , it's very entertaining. But I've never seen a single 1st source historical document or account of the "event". And world war 2 was one of the most documented wars in history (at least from the USA side). You can find at the National archives in college park toliet paper requistion reports. The only reason I can think of for such an event occuring without documentation would be the people witnessing such an occurrance would not want their names associated with such a story (such as many air crew would later refuse to file UFO reports).

So there are my two takes. Either "urban legend" (or great story for a Sci-fi type magazine) or a "event too weird to risk reporting. I'd argue against the second as the fast majority of Americans fighting WW2 were either draftee's or "war time only" combatants. Very few professionals were there. And most "hostilities only" warriors couldn't give a fig what the Authorities thought, and only concern of their military career was how soon they could end it.They'd have reported it. Or written a bokk about it as soon as they were out.

_____________________________


(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 7
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 7:27:00 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I've run into the "legend" several times, but with no acreditation. Many aircraft have been launched without permanet landing gear (the ME-163 comes to mind. ). It's a great "ghost story" , it's very entertaining. But I've never seen a single 1st source historical document or account of the "event". And world war 2 was one of the most documented wars in history (at least from the USA side). You can find at the National archives in college park toliet paper requistion reports. The only reason I can think of for such an event occuring without documentation would be the people witnessing such an occurrance would not want their names associated with such a story (such as many air crew would later refuse to file UFO reports).

So there are my two takes. Either "urban legend" (or great story for a Sci-fi type magazine) or a "event too weird to risk reporting. I'd argue against the second as the fast majority of Americans fighting WW2 were either draftee's or "war time only" combatants. Very few professionals were there. And most "hostilities only" warriors couldn't give a fig what the Authorities thought, and only concern of their military career was how soon they could end it.They'd have reported it. Or written a bokk about it as soon as they were out.



Not to mention that this is a bit different from a UFO-sighting. If a report is filed, there is a ton of physical evidence to back it up, there is the wreck of the plane, the bodies of the pilots, .... Not to mention that it isn't just one or two persons who would have witnessed this, maybe 2 guys could think 'this is too strange to report', but an airbase full of people ?

_____________________________

The AE-Wiki, help fill it out

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 8
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 7:27:02 PM   
msieving1


Posts: 526
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline 		Sounds like an old ghost story. I wouldn't take anything in Reader's Digest too seriously.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 9
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 7:50:20 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleidoscope

Elevated inclined ramp with a sea cliff Terminus? :)
That is one reason it is a strange story.



It's not strange, it's moronic. You can't launch an aircraft with a propeller in the front without landing gear.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to kaleidoscope)
Post #: 10
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 8:02:13 PM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		That sounds just like a story I heard years ago about a B-17 being able to land after its landing gear was shot away.

_____________________________

Take my word for it. You never want to be involved in an “International Incident”.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 11
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 8:03:11 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		If it had happened, I would think people would want to file a report about it because it is likely the people inside were Americans and if a report was filed, there would be a better chance of finding out who they were any notifying next of kin.  So I think it likely that if it was real, there would be more of a record of it.

I believe there was at least one USAAF pilot who became a guerrilla leader on Mindanao.  He came walking out of the jungle with the rest of the Americans left behind when the Allies landed on Mindanao.

Bill


_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 12
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 8:08:44 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		kaleidoscope -

I do recall a similar tale in Martin Caidin's Ragged Rugged Warriors (1966), which starts with the AVG - IIRC.

http://www.amazon.com/Ragged-Rugged-Warriors-Against-Pacific/dp/B000J40K0M/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320001633&sr=1-2

Mac

_____________________________

LAV-25 2147

(in reply to kaleidoscope)
Post #: 13
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 8:09:55 PM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleidoscope

Elevated inclined ramp with a sea cliff Terminus? :)
That is one reason it is a strange story.



It's not strange, it's moronic. You can't launch an aircraft with a propeller in the front without landing gear.


Without landing gear?

What about this bird?


Or
What about this one?


I am confused does this bird have landing gear




_____________________________

Take my word for it. You never want to be involved in an “International Incident”.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 14
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 8:13:46 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Yesss, very clever. Pat yourself on the head and say good boy.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to YankeeAirRat)
Post #: 15
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 8:16:34 PM   
Capt Cliff


Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		It's obvious ... the pilot was Wild Bill Kelso!!

_____________________________

Capt. Cliff

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 16
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 8:22:43 PM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Yesss, very clever. Pat yourself on the head and say good boy.


I try. Just because I was trying to pull your chain a little bit. It is almost all hollow's eve where I am and traditionally we play tricks before all hollow's eve on friends and co-workers.

_____________________________

Take my word for it. You never want to be involved in an “International Incident”.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 17
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 10:12:56 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

kaleidoscope -

I do recall a similar tale in Martin Caidin's Ragged Rugged Warriors (1966), which starts with the AVG - IIRC.

http://www.amazon.com/Ragged-Rugged-Warriors-Against-Pacific/dp/B000J40K0M/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320001633&sr=1-2

Mac


So we are talking about Sci Fi!!

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 18
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/30/2011 10:48:22 PM   
kaleidoscope


Posts: 27
Joined: 11/22/2006
From: Tennessee
Status: offline 		I  found some hits that relate roughly similar stories
all of which concern a solitary P-40.

http://www.futilitycloset.com/2011/05/07/the-ghost-plane/
http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/odditiesandcuriosity/p40.html

and finally this discussion at another forum where some underlying facts emerge
which make for some interesting reading both pro and con in regards to this subject.
http://www.schstwa2.tk/the-phantom-p-40

This is a quote from that forum by Dan Ford concerning the P-40 story:

"The author of the original story was
evidently Robert Scott, commander of the 23rd Fighter Group after the
AVG went home. Scott and other USAAF personnel in China thought of
themselves, and the survivors still think of themselves today, as
Flying Tigers, and indeed the various units commanded by Chennault
after July 1942 wore Disney-art Flying Tiger patches, different from
but related to the one created for the AVG.

In answer to how the Phantom P-40 took off if it had no landing gear,
I recall that it was launched on a bamboo skid of some sort.

That Scott did not include this yarn in God Is My Co-pilot suggests
that it was a wild tale with no basis in fact. Given
the time frame, and the small numbers of pilots involved in teh 23rd
FG, it seems almost impossible that he wouldn’t have known about it at
first hand, if it had actually happened."





(in reply to YankeeAirRat)
Post #: 19
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 12:20:02 AM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

It's obvious ... the pilot was Wild Bill Kelso!!


Last seen as a POW on an IJN sub heading back to the home islands; maybe he became the American equivalent of "Fuji" on McHales' Navy?

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Capt Cliff)
Post #: 20
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 2:15:47 AM   
Heeward


Posts: 343
Joined: 1/27/2003
From: Lacey Washington
Status: offline 		I remember reading this about the mystery P40 from the Philippines lost over china, in the magazine Air Classics back in the mid-late 70's. It was a storywas bit more fleshed out though being a three to four page article.

_____________________________

The Wake

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 21
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 3:14:11 AM   
Skyros


Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		Sounds more like a story from the comic book "Weird War"

_____________________________


(in reply to Heeward)
Post #: 22
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 6:08:46 AM   
kaleidoscope


Posts: 27
Joined: 11/22/2006
From: Tennessee
Status: offline 		As best I can piece together,
the story first appeared in
print within a book  written
by this fellow, Col. Robert L. Scott.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lee_Scott,_Jr.

He is otherwise famous
for writing the book "God is my Copilot".
and eventually retired as a brigadier
general.

I suppose this is why the story has legs,
coming from a famous person of some
standing....a genuine war hero ace with
the right stuff and all that razzmatazz.

Does not make the story true but
does explain why the tale has been hard
to permanently put to rest.

Maybe he was simply trying to sell more books :)




(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 23
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 7:39:31 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.warbirdforum.com/phantom.htm

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to kaleidoscope)
Post #: 24
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 3:23:59 PM   
dorjun driver


Posts: 641
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Port Townsend: hex 210,51
Status: offline 		As we Yanks found to our dismay, one doesn't require "landing" gear.  Simply having "take off" gear will suffice.  In a pinch.

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 25
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 3:51:14 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleidoscope

Elevated inclined ramp with a sea cliff Terminus? :)
That is one reason it is a strange story.



It's not strange, it's moronic. You can't launch an aircraft with a propeller in the front without landing gear.


Yes you can...

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 26
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 6:17:37 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		And after the flames had cooled, the wreck recovery team finally noticed the inscription, scrawled in blood, written on the canopy by the dying pilot's hand .... "See You Next Wednesday!"

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to kaleidoscope)
Post #: 27
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 7:56:24 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Yesss, very clever. Pat yourself on the head and say good boy.



the gear could have been drawn like in that episode of what was it...."Amazing Tales" that featured a trapped ball gunner of a B-17 who saved his life by drawing cartoon landing gear on the B-17 that landed.

oh well. Don't see what the fuss is about. The Japanese regularily cobbled together enough parts to put a plane or two into the air for harrasement purposes long after Rabaul was totally cut off. The lack of landing gear is puzzling but i've heard stranger stuff. Maybe it's just a tale.


_____________________________


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 28
RE: A strange pacific war tale - 10/31/2011 9:01:30 PM   
sandman455


Posts: 209
Joined: 7/5/2011
From: 20 yrs ago - SDO -> med down, w/BC glasses on
Status: offline 		Assuming the plane was salvaged from a previous wreck, its very likely it would have sustained major damage to the gear.

This means that any effort to get it airborne again would have depended on some kind of makeshift gear with most likely a skid system. It would have to be very short and stout to support the stress but it could be done with wood. After that all you would need is a hard packed beach or maybe a very shallow surf. The Philippines might have a few of those.

Our two hold outs, who were undoubtably already nuts, were very worried all the military activity would have IJ units finding them first. So they decide the time is now to follow some allied aircraft to a field. They make it airborne with bambo gear and they crash and burn on the landing. The fire burns the bambo and you end up with a cool but tragic story.

It's doable and I've retold crazier stories that I know are true.

< Message edited by sandman455 -- 10/31/2011 10:40:51 PM >

_____________________________

Gary S (USN 1320, 1985-1993)
AOCS 1985, VT10 1985-86, VT86 1986, VS41 1986-87
VS32 1987-90 (NSO/NWTO, deployed w/CV-66, CVN-71)
VS27 1990-91 (NATOPS/Safety)
SFWSLANT 1991-93 (AGM-84 All platforms, S-3 A/B systems)

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 29
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> A strange pacific war tale Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.363