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Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/9/2011 5:35:22 PM   
Lanconic

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 7/1/2008
Status: offline 		Night Time Surface Combat, near Noumea at 115,160, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba, Torpedo hits 1
DD Yomogi
DD Karii

Allied Ships
PT-36
PT-37
PT-38
PT-39
PT-40, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-43
PT-44, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-45
PT-46
PT-47
PT-48, Shell hits 1, and is sunk




Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 39% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 10,000 yards
Japanese open fire on surprised Allied ships at 10,000 yards
DD Karii fires at PT-48 at 10,000 yards
DD Yomogi fires at PT-46 at 10,000 yards
DD Yomogi fires at PT-44 at 10,000 yards
DD Karii fires at PT-40 at 10,000 yards
DD Yomogi fires at PT-39 at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-48 at 8,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-46 at 8,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-37 at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-48 at 7,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-48 at 7,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-38 at 7,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-37 at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
PT-48 engages DD Karii at 5,000 yards
PT-48 engages DD Yomogi at 5,000 yards
PT-40 engages DD Yomogi at 5,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-38 at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-48 at 4,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-48 at 4,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-48 at 4,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-45 at 4,000 yards
PT-39 engages CA Aoba at 4,000 yards
PT-38 engages DD Karii at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
PT-48 sunk by CA Aoba at 3,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-46 at 3,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-45 at 3,000 yards
PT-40 sunk by CA Aoba at 3,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-38 at 3,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-47 at 3,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-47 at 3,000 yards
PT-37 engages DD Yomogi at 3,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-36 at 3,000 yards
Hisamune, Yonejiro orders Japanese TF to disengage
PT-46 engages CA Aoba at 3,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-43 at 3,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-39 at 3,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-47 at 3,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-44 at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
PT-44 collides with PT-43 at 115 , 160
DD Karii engages PT-47 at 5,000 yards
PT-44 sunk by CA Aoba at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-46 at 7,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-45 at 7,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-38 at 7,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-37 at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-47 at 9,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-47 at 9,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-45 at 9,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-37 at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-47 at 10,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-47 at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-47 at 11,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-38 at 11,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-47 at 11,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-45 at 11,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-43 at 11,000 yards
DD Karii engages PT-37 at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-47 at 11,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-39 at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-38 at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-39 at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
CA Aoba engages PT-38 at 12,000 yards
DD Yomogi engages PT-37 at 12,000 yards
Task forces break off...
Post #: 1
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/9/2011 6:19:00 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then."

Actually, I find PTs to be far from useless.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Lanconic)
Post #: 2
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/9/2011 6:22:37 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		I lost a CV (crippled and sunk by air the next day) and a BB (mag explosion) to PT boats in my last game.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 3
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/9/2011 6:56:44 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		As a Japanese player, I would have to say that PTs are anything but useless.

Early on in the GC, the only surface threat I fear more is the Battlestar Galactica. Ur, I mean the CL Boise.

(in reply to Lanconic)
Post #: 4
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/9/2011 11:35:29 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Night & low visibility = PT time.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 5
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/10/2011 12:54:19 AM   
nashvillen


Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline 		I keep telling all of you, don't build PT boats... They are useless!

_____________________________


(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 6
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/10/2011 2:29:50 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Here is another decent result from a recent battle. Note: visibility conditions were prime for the PTs, but I can't take any credit for that. The PTs have been based there for a long time, it just happened that the night of the battle was favorable...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Nadi at 131,160, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
     DD Hatsushima
     DD Yayoi
     DD Uzuki
     DD Minazuki
     DD Kikuzuki
     DD Asanagi
     DD Yunagi, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy damage

Allied Ships
     PT-126
     PT-128
     PT-142
     PT-143
     PT-144, Shell hits 1
     PT-145, Shell hits 4, and is sunk



Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 46% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 46% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
DD Yunagi engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
PT-144 engages DD Asanagi at 2,000 yards
DD Yunagi engages PT-143 at 2,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
DD Yunagi engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
DD Yunagi engages PT-144 at 2,000 yards
DD Kikuzuki engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages PT-142 at 2,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
DD Asanagi engages PT-126 at 2,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-145 at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages PT-145 at 4,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages PT-144 at 4,000 yards
PT-145 sunk by DD Kikuzuki at 4,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages PT-142 at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
DD Yunagi engages PT-144 at 3,000 yards
DD Yunagi engages PT-143 at 3,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-128 at 3,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-143 at 3,000 yards
DD Asanagi engages PT-144 at 3,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages PT-128 at 3,000 yards
DD Uzuki engages PT-142 at 3,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-143 at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Kikuzuki engages PT-143 at 2,000 yards
DD Kikuzuki engages PT-142 at 2,000 yards
DD Yunagi engages PT-126 at 2,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages PT-143 at 2,000 yards
Showers, O.G. orders Allied TF to disengage
DD Yunagi engages PT-126 at 2,000 yards
DD Asanagi engages PT-126 at 2,000 yards
DD Kikuzuki engages PT-142 at 2,000 yards
DD Minazuki engages PT-144 at 2,000 yards
DD Yayoi engages PT-126 at 2,000 yards
DD Hatsushima engages PT-144 at 2,000 yards
Task forces break off...


_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 7
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/10/2011 2:11:51 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		I have found them to be VERY useful and my Japanese opponent has come to that view only after a healthy does of lost AKs... They can be deadly given the right conditions (night, no moon) with a good TF commander.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 8
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/10/2011 2:36:06 PM   
zzodr


Posts: 178
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		From my first game vs AI

Night Time Surface Combat, near Buka at 109,128, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Musashi
CA Nachi, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
DD Kiyonami
DD Kuroshio
DD Natsushio
DD Asashio

Allied Ships
PT-73, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
PT-74, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-75, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT-76
PT-77
PT-78, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
PT-79, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-80, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-81, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-82
PT-83, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
PT-84, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
PT-115, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
PT-116, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
PT-117, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
PT-118, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 7% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 7% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Specht, W.C. gains tactical advantage
DD Natsushio engages PT-118 at 1,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-118 at 1,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-118 at 1,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-84 at 1,000 yards
PT-83 engages DD Kuroshio at 1,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-78 at 1,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-75 at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-117 at 2,000 yards
PT-118 sunk by DD Kuroshio at 2,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages PT-82 at 2,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-75 at 2,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-73 at 2,000 yards
PT-117 sunk by BB Musashi at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-115 at 2,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-84 at 2,000 yards
PT-116 engages CA Nachi at 2,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-84 at 2,000 yards
PT-116 engages DD Asashio at 2,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-116 at 2,000 yards
PT-81 engages BB Musashi at 2,000 yards
PT-80 engages BB Yamato at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
CA Nachi engages PT-116 at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-115 at 3,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-116 at 3,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-116 at 3,000 yards
CA Nachi sunk by PT-80 at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
BB Musashi engages PT-116 at 2,000 yards
PT-115 sunk by BB Musashi at 2,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-116 at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-82 at 2,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-73 at 2,000 yards
PT-116 sunk by DD Asashio at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-83 at 2,000 yards
PT-81 engages BB Musashi at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-78 at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
BB Musashi engages PT-84 at 4,000 yards
BB Musashi engages PT-83 at 4,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-82 at 4,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages PT-80 at 4,000 yards
PT-79 sunk by DD Natsushio at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-83 at 4,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-84 at 4,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages PT-78 at 4,000 yards
PT-76 engages DD Kuroshio at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
BB Musashi engages PT-84 at 2,000 yards
PT-83 sunk by BB Musashi at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-84 at 2,000 yards
PT-81 engages DD Natsushio at 2,000 yards
BB Musashi engages PT-80 at 2,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages PT-78 at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-73 at 2,000 yards
Takayanagi, Gihachi orders Japanese TF to disengage
PT-84 sunk by BB Musashi at 2,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-82 at 2,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages PT-80 at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-82 at 2,000 yards
BB Musashi engages PT-81 at 2,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages PT-80 at 2,000 yards
PT-78 sunk by BB Yamato at 2,000 yards
PT-80 sunk by DD Kuroshio at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-75 at 2,000 yards
PT-74 sunk by BB Musashi at 2,000 yards
PT-81 engages BB Yamato at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-77 at 2,000 yards
PT-76 engages DD Natsushio at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
PT-81 sunk by DD Kiyonami at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-82 at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages PT-82 at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-82 at 2,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages PT-75 at 2,000 yards
DD Kiyonami engages PT-75 at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
PT-75 sunk by DD Kiyonami at 3,000 yards
PT-73 sunk by BB Musashi at 3,000 yards
Task forces break off...


_____________________________


(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 9
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/10/2011 2:41:01 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		PT boats have never been useless.

I too have sunk IJN carriers with Dutch PTs off Java.

The American and Phillippine PTs routinely sink ships at Vigan in the opening days.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to zzodr)
Post #: 10
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/10/2011 10:52:32 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		In fact they can be gamed and exploited a bit. In my campaign we have a limit of six per TF and one active TF per base. This seems to keep it in perspective.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 11
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/11/2011 2:52:14 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I keep them limited to six PTs in a task force, but sometimes you have to have two of those Task Forces in a base because when you "build" them you have no control over the amount of PTs created. My experience has been that if there are twelve or more of them in the pool and you have enough supply points they will create twelve PTs at a time with no option to create fewer.


_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 12
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/11/2011 4:57:53 AM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I keep them limited to six PTs in a task force, but sometimes you have to have two of those Task Forces in a base because when you "build" them you have no control over the amount of PTs created. My experience has been that if there are twelve or more of them in the pool and you have enough supply points they will create twelve PTs at a time with no option to create fewer.




This!!! It was the first thing I thought when I saw the six per TF/one TF per hex comment. If there are enough PT in the pool and enough supply, "built PT" gives you 12.

_____________________________

"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 13
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/11/2011 6:40:40 AM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		But you can always disband 6 extra PTs. They are not lost, they go back to pool...

(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 14
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/11/2011 7:11:18 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

But you can always disband 6 extra PTs. They are not lost, they go back to pool...



We couldn't do this in WITP, so I keep forgetting that...


Question: when you disband them, do you regain the supply that was used in creating them?

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 11/11/2011 7:12:47 AM >

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 15
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/11/2011 12:03:36 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

In fact they can be gamed and exploited a bit. In my campaign we have a limit of six per TF and one active TF per base. This seems to keep it in perspective.



Seems a bit excessive of a limitation since they deploy in groups of 12. I limit TF size to 4 per TF, but allow 3 TFs of 4 PTs each to accommodate the deployment of 12. What do you do, immediately return 6 to the pool after 12 deploy or immediately move half the deployment to another base?

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 16
RE: Not all useless after all - PT-Boats - 11/11/2011 12:04:34 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Puhis

But you can always disband 6 extra PTs. They are not lost, they go back to pool...



and are now unavailable for use elsewhere for another 21 days.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 17
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