crsutton
Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: viberpol
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
As much as I would hate to have had this result myself, I also know how incredibly easy it is to destroy an oilfield and the associated refining facilities. The amount of care and technology required just to keep these things from blowing up due to accidents is incredible. In war, you cannot hope to keep these from burning if a bomber can get within "sniffing" distance. Besides the WWII examples, even more modern day examples are plentiful: Kuwait oilfields 1980, Beirut refinery 1978, Abadan ....
So maybe it should or shouldn't be tied to manpower, but the fact would remain that they need to be incredibly susceptible air attack. Sorry.
Refineries... hmm... OK, I agree. I think you're right. They're very fragile and difficult to defend and rebuild.
But an oil center in game terms is not a a refinery. It's a crude oil source.
It can burn long but then... is it that difficult to rebuild just the same as sophisticated refinery center?
quote:
ORIGINAL: crsutton
For the record, all 4Es, dauntless and avengers-perhaps 300-400 attack aircraft (but I have not seen the replay) were set to bomb the oil at Palembang. I would expect an attack of that size to do some significant damage and set quite a few campfires but don't mind if it is tweaked back if the general consensus is that it is excessive.
The results might be excessive but considering that the Allied sub war has been a major no show in this game, I am not displeased with the results.
Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 28
F6F-3 Hellcat x 189
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 57
SBD-5 Dauntless x 259
TBF-1 Avenger x 9
TBM-1C Avenger x 140
Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-61-II KAI Tony: 6 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 8 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged
SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak
TBM-1C Avenger: 9 damaged
Oil hits 76
Ross, so take a look at the replay first.
Major damage (ok, most hits  ) has been made by 400 navy bombers (76 out of 91 hits) & not by the strategic 4E raids that had not been that disastrous this turn actually...
Maybe that's the problem linked with the effectiveness of low flying torpedo bombers not using torpedoes... 
It could be quite informative if Michael can give some real numbers of what raid brought what oil center damage here. 
Is it possible to extract the actual data from the turn? (out of curiosity)
Yes I saw that. Actually the replay showed around 500 bombers of all type attacking. It was a pretty hefty raid. Perhaps the avengers are hitting too well but it seems like the SBDs got plenty of hits as well. What sort of AA defenses do you have there? Fort levels? Do you have radar? Perhaps it needs to be scaled back a bit. I don't know.
As for the oil facilities, I know that it took some time for them to repair the oil fields in Kuwait after the Iraqis sabotaged the field during the 1st Persian gulf war. We are talking about really a second rate industrial system and even with oil fields there is some serious equipment that needs to be repaired. Oil tanks, well heads pipelines, pumping machinery-equipment that the Japanese economy would be hard pressed to come up with. Basically as the Allied bombed out things in Japan very little got repaired. They just did not have the surplus capacity to repair heavy equipment, much less ships and planes.
Of course, you have an intact KB with virtually all the carriers you can get. Perhaps a carrier fight is in order.
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