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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 3:00:21 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Windows 7 gets installed from a program call Boot Camp Assistant on the Mac side. Once it's installed, you go into Windows and open the Mac OS disk where there's a PC program called Boot Camp that installs the drivers. That's where I'm running into problems.

Mike, as I asked above:

Are those drivers visible (i.e. separate files on that Mac OS-X DVD) or they are installed via BootCamp EXE program exclusively?

Also what Mac OS-X version you have (i.e. how old is it)?

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 451

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 3:11:16 PM

Mike Solli

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I think the drivers are visible (don't quote me on that though). I'm using the most recent OS - 10.7.2.

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Post #: 452

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 3:18:01 PM

Mike Solli

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I just found out from Apple that I have to use the 32 bit Windows 7. Ok, I can do that.

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Post #: 453

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 4:15:58 PM

Mynok

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That's very strange. What type of Mac do you have?

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Post #: 454

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 4:32:13 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I just found out from Apple that I have to use the 32 bit Windows 7. Ok, I can do that.

Why is that Mike?

No drivers for 64 bit Windows 7 version in Mac BootCamp?

BTW, you will have 3.2+ GB of RAM when suing Windows 7 32 bit (i.e. you will loose 700+ MBs - that that is not big deal since no programs actually use that much RAM anyway apart from specialized ones or the virtualization that I, for example, use regularly)...

Also, I always suggest Windows 7 32 bit to anyone with <= 4 GB RAM - less problems with 32 bit drivers compared to 64 bit Windows 7 drivers!

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 455

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 4:35:18 PM

Nikademus

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its not because of the type of mac. Mac's after all are Intel based PC's on the inside just like any other. Apple however has a death grip on the DRIVERS for the specific hardware components used in their PC's, like the Airport wireless device or for keyboard specific functions. It is possible to get 'some' of these drivers independantly but it's a pain in the ass. I finally got the airport device to work via a Broadcomm driver for windows (back before i had a copy of Snow Leopard) and got the Nvidia graphics to work, but couldn't get the sound or keyboard drivers until i bought OS X.

As of OS-X "Lion", Apple no longer provides drivers for any Windows other than Win7 (XP users will need a copy of Snow Leopard or older) Hadn't heard about the 64 bit issue vs. 32 bit issue but then again the version of Win7 on my Core2 Duo "era" Mac uses the 32 bit version of 7 so it passed under my radar.

This isn't Microsoft's fault. Apple specifically markets it's Bootcamp feature as a selling point to put more Mac's on people's laps. But they control it very tightly just as Steve Jobs taught em. In the legal-ese for example it says specifically that it's ILLEGAL to load OS-X on any non Apple PC and if you do they will not give you any support.

Always amazed me that Microsoft is made to look so Big Business but Apple is just as much Big Business but manages to portray itself as the people's hero at the same time. You can thank Jobs for that too. I believe the "PC vs. Mac" commercials were his brainchild.

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Post #: 456

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 4:54:36 PM

USSAmerica

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Nik, I agree with your opinion of Jobs. He and Gates did mostly the same things, but Jobs always got more "cool points" and he was a master of taking advantage of that when marketing.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 5:02:58 PM

Chickenboy

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Also remember that Gates is the sole reason for Apple's ongoing existence. If Microsoft wouldn't have floated them a major loan in the late 1990s, Apple would have gone under. Jobs went so far as to call Gates a "marvelous human being" for furthering this loan request, IIRC.

How Jobs gets any cool points for running a company into the ground and then beggaring a competitor for a loan is beyond me. When Microsoft ruled the galaxy, they should have thought again about bringing the jackboot down on their competitor's throat when they had the chance. Antitrust lawsuits notwithstanding. Only through Gates' mercy was Jobs / Apple able to realize their opportunity.

I realize this isn't a very popular opinion, but bidness is bidness.

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Post #: 458

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 5:24:32 PM

Chickenboy

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Whoever said that Canadians were all 'warm and fuzzy'?

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/us/2011/11/28/moos-geezer-cane-fight.cnn

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Post #: 459

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:11:47 PM

JWE

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Back in my days in SoCal, I had the opportunity to meet both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.

Notwithstanding what their companies do, and how they are perceived, I really liked Steve Jobs. He was like a homey. We went to lunch and he had a beer (an Anchor Steam, iirc) and a ceasar salad and he didn't give a rats what we had. He was a wonderful conversationalist and he listened. As a person, I liked him a lot.
[ed] yeah, ok, he was hard socialist, but he was an honest one and was always willing to converse (and have a beer) with someone worth talking to.

Gates was a dump. Spent all his time trying to show how important he was. Did not enjoy my time with him; he would never make eye contact, and would always try to trump any conversation that was going on. As a person, I wanted to wash after being with him.
[ed] yeah, ok, he is hard socialist, but he is a dishonest one. He talks to none. He cares about nothing.

But then, all things considered, I have a Microsoft System on my 'puter, and MS applications. It's because my clients use them and I gotta go with the flow. Soon as things can get unified, I'm more than willing to urinate on little Bill.

< Message edited by JWE -- 11/29/2011 7:21:54 PM >

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:13:06 PM

Mynok

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quote:

Hadn't heard about the 64 bit issue vs. 32 bit issue but then again the version of Win7 on my Core2 Duo "era" Mac uses the 32 bit version of 7 so it passed under my radar.

I have no troubles running 64-bit Windows 7 on my Macbook Pro with 4GB of memory. That's why I was curious what kind of Mac Mike had and what kind of RAM. RAM size could very well be an issue.

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Post #: 461

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:17:45 PM

Mynok

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Well, one important difference between the companies that has at least coincidental value to the perception issue is Apple was primarily a consumer company, while Microsoft was primarily a business company. By that I refer to primary customer base.

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Post #: 462

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:29:47 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Back in my days in SoCal, I had the opportunity to meet both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.

Notwithstanding what their companies do, and how they are perceived, I really liked Steve Jobs. He was like a homey. We went to lunch and he had a beer (an Anchor Steam, iirc) and a ceasar salad and he didn't give a rats what we had. He was a wonderful conversationalist and he listened. As a person, I liked him a lot.
[ed] yeah, ok, he was hard socialist, but he was an honest one and was always willing to converse (and have a beer) with someone worth talking to.

Gates was a dump. Spent all his time trying to show how important he was. Did not enjoy my time with him; he would never make eye contact, and would always try to trump any conversation that was going on. As a person, I wanted to wash after being with him.
[ed] yeah, ok, he is hard socialist, but he is a dishonest one. He talks to none. He cares about nothing.

But then, all things considered, I have a Microsoft System on my 'puter, and MS applications. It's because my clients use them and I gotta go with the flow. Soon as things can get unified, I'm more than willing to urinate on little Bill.

ironic....unless i'm mistaken, one of Job's regrets was that he didn't do more philanthropy.....whereas Gates founded that big org here in Seattle.....but you say he cared about nothing yet Jobs was personable. (i also heard though that Jobs was an SOB to work for..........many a tantrum and abuse....and a micromanager)

I wonder how many faces both men have(had) Having never met either, i'm in no position to say. I can only comment about the "Apple-fanatics" and how they percieve Apple the company vs. Microsoft the company and thats what makes me shake my head.

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Post #: 463

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:33:32 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

quote:

Hadn't heard about the 64 bit issue vs. 32 bit issue but then again the version of Win7 on my Core2 Duo "era" Mac uses the 32 bit version of 7 so it passed under my radar.

I have no troubles running 64-bit Windows 7 on my Macbook Pro with 4GB of memory. That's why I was curious what kind of Mac Mike had and what kind of RAM. RAM size could very well be an issue.

Unless i'm mistaken, Mike said Apple told him there were no drivers for the 64bit OS, so don't see where RAM comes in to play. But if your using Win7/64 off a Mac then i'm puzzled as obviously there MUST be drivers compatible with it. Did you use Bootcamp wizard or did you set up the partitions manually using Disk Utility (Again though.....not that that would make any difference when it comes to drivers....they're either there on the OS-X disk and work or they dont)

It was a while ago, but when i set up my triple boot I had to do it manually because Bootcamp will only support setting up a dual partition. After i installed 7 i just used the device manager to look for drivers and pointed it to the SL disk. Think i might have had to look through the files though.

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Post #: 464

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:47:53 PM

JWE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Well, one important difference between the companies that has at least coincidental value to the perception issue is Apple was primarily a consumer company, while Microsoft was primarily a business company. By that I refer to primary customer base.

Well, you are right, of course. Thing is that businesses don't think quite that way.

Mynok, my brother, just consider: A business, any business, is in the business of offering a product that will cover the costs of developing that product, and thereby make a profit for the investors. There ain't no such thing as a consumer/business company. That's just the marketing. That stuff is not the business. The business is offering a product that will cover the costs .......

There's two ways of looking at this. Top-down, or bottom-up. Customers always look bottom-up. Businesses always look top-down. Sometimes, in the grand scheme of things there's a buisness that pays attention to things percolating up from the bottom. Once you find them, buy their stock. But there is no rule, and there is no ethical scale for businesses. It's like, does your money feel comfy?

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:50:56 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
I can only comment about the "Apple-fanatics" and how they percieve Apple the company vs. Microsoft the company and thats what makes me shake my head.

It's easy enough to calculate the market cap of both companies. Based on today's (a few minutes ago) stock action, MSFT has a market cap of $209.9B whilest AAPL is about $348.1B. No comparison. Apple is 66% larger than MSFT.

In 2011, "Big Red" (or is it green?) is upon us. All will bow down before them or be crushed.

The allure of Apple as a 'warm and fuzzy' genius-driven company versus the treadworn 'faceless corporate stooge' Microsoft name is dated and has no bearing with reality any longer. Any company that has cult appeal and is larger than Exxon-Mobil in market cap ($370B) can be dangerous, in my opinion. These corporate monoliths tend to be insensitive to their critics and brush all out of the way of their ongoing need for self-growth.

It's increasingly difficult to rationally view Apple as an underdog in any of their product arenas either. They're just another extremely large corporation.

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Post #: 466

RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:54:24 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Well, one important difference between the companies that has at least coincidental value to the perception issue is Apple was primarily a consumer company, while Microsoft was primarily a business company. By that I refer to primary customer base.

Well, you are right, of course. Thing is that businesses don't think quite that way.

Mynok, my brother, just consider: A business, any business, is in the business of offering a product that will cover the costs of developing that product, and thereby make a profit for the investors. There ain't no such thing as a consumer/business company. That's just the marketing. That stuff is not the business. The business is offering a product that will cover the costs .......

There's two ways of looking at this. Top-down, or bottom-up. Customers always look bottom-up. Businesses always look top-down. Sometimes, in the grand scheme of things there's a buisness that pays attention to things percolating up from the bottom. Once you find them, buy their stock. But there is no rule, and there is no ethical scale for businesses. It's like, does your money feel comfy?

What he said. Mostly.

There are examples replete of businesses designed for consumers 'from the bottom up' that have crapola business models. My money is not safe / comfy with them and their stock is to be avoided at all hazards. Anyone say 'Pets.com'?

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 7:54:50 PM

Nikademus

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lol. Its hard to be the "underdog" when your #1.

Reminds me of the Superbowl psychology. Both teams will go to great pains to be perceived as the Underdog much of the time.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:12:06 PM

Mynok

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I didn't make my point very well again. I was only talking about the perception issue. Without any study whatsoever, it seems that people tend to get more of their 'perception' from their personal experiences rather than work. Windows has been far more of a pain for me to deal with than my Macs. Now that is true both with my work and my play, but the latter experiences I feel more strongly about.

Sure, bidness is bidness and Apple is a monolithic corporation with tremendous potential for evil. So far, their record is not as bad as most of its peers, though I wouldn't call it 'good' in any kind of absolute terms. Just a lesser evil.......

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:13:10 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Just a lesser evil.......

Nah. Just a lesser understood evil.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:24:46 PM

Mynok

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That could very well be, but it is unmeasurable. In measurable evil acts, they have far fewer than most other large corps.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:33:15 PM

USSAmerica

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"Measurable evil acts"

Is that like "keeping score" with VP's in AE?

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:34:00 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

That could very well be, but it is unmeasurable. In measurable evil acts, they have far fewer than most other large corps.

Again, you and I will have to agree to disagree.

I would consider their avarice in the field of cloud computing, mobile smartphone development, pad computer marketplace stranglehold, OS deathgrip and so on and so on to be 'typical' large corps behavior in such self-identified 'key' business arenas. No better. No worse. They're just another corp fighting tooth and nail for their own self-interests.

They're not the evil empire, simply because a simplistic monolithic 'evil empire' doesnt' really exist. But they'd be as useful an example of a large corp 'evil empire' as any other model you'd care to mention.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:50:10 PM

JWE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
I didn't make my point very well again. I was only talking about the perception issue. Without any study whatsoever, it seems that people tend to get more of their 'perception' from their personal experiences rather than work. Windows has been far more of a pain for me to deal with than my Macs. Now that is true both with my work and my play, but the latter experiences I feel more strongly about.

Sure, bidness is bidness and Apple is a monolithic corporation with tremendous potential for evil. So far, their record is not as bad as most of its peers, though I wouldn't call it 'good' in any kind of absolute terms. Just a lesser evil.......

I do understand. They are both corporations and, therefore, evil by definition. But then, I'm a philosophical capitalist, so evil is as evil does. And Steve Jobs didn't strike me as evil. He actually struck me as an honest neo cryptic Budhist looking to be righteous. and maybe push the world in that direction. I liked him.

The more things change, the more they hurt like hell !!

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:53:47 PM

jeffk3510

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So ALL corporations are evil huh?

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 8:54:39 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

I didn't make my point very well again. I was only talking about the perception issue. Without any study whatsoever, it seems that people tend to get more of their 'perception' from their personal experiences rather than work. Windows has been far more of a pain for me to deal with than my Macs. Now that is true both with my work and my play, but the latter experiences I feel more strongly about.

Sure, bidness is bidness and Apple is a monolithic corporation with tremendous potential for evil. So far, their record is not as bad as most of its peers, though I wouldn't call it 'good' in any kind of absolute terms. Just a lesser evil.......

I credit Job's marketing campaign more than the personal experience. He did come up with some good ideas, though i recently learned a funny thing about Jobs exploding at Gates about his having plagurized Apple for the Windows GUI OS when it first came out. Gates allegedly replied back coolly that he interpreted it as trying to steal a TV from his rich neighbors house (called Zerox) only to find that Jobs had already stolen it.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 9:01:35 PM

Kwik E Mart

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back on the west coast (the best coast, as N.W.A. might have crooned) tithe...

...little bit of a shock to the system going from sandals, shorts, palm trees and beautiful south beach women to cold, fog, drizzle and goth/tree hugger women...

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iLOG! - 11/29/2011 9:06:21 PM

Nikademus

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as for my own personal experience having become a "Mac" owner and operator by a strange set of circumstances......

The product is solid overall, though some components earn my scorn (particularily airport WiFi devices) It is WAY overpriced however and i would never purchase one with my own money. (laptop speaking wise)

Apple's idea of personal experience is just click and enjoy. Thats a great philosophy...until something goes wrong, then you have jack for documentation....such as the first time i tried to install OSX and it failed. All the documentation said was....1) insert disk 2) press ok 3) ENJOY
The rest of the book only told you how great Apple was.

OS X is definately a leaner OS. It boots and shuts down very quickly. You only get that with Windows if using an SSD drive.

On the negative side, the OS had odd quirks and when something doesn't work, you get little idea of what is going wrong. Guess its that whole "user experience" thing again.

Which is more annoying? The OS X Pinwheel of death or the endless circle of WIndows?

I am wary of automated sharing features and avoid them

The first time i used Bootcamp it corrupted the entire hard drive. (LOL) had to reinstall OS X again

Windows experience:

BSOD!

Slow laborous loadups and shutdowns at times.

Biggest thing i did with Windows 3.11 was exit to DOS. (unless using MS Word! or later....using Netscape Browser)

Windows 95/98 was cool. I'm sentimentally attached to it.

XP was good. Yeah it has it's issues....but its still chuggin along for a 10 year old O/S. My workplace still uses it!!!!

Vista - Not as bad as people kept telling me it was. It WAS however a resource hog. User access control was annoying.

Win7. Overall its very good. Still suffers from bloat vs. OS-X and unfortunately shares some traits with OS-X by not telling you when something goes wrong (unless your an administrator)

As for "iGadgets" i'm biased....as i still don't own a PDA. I have no need for an iPad though i admit they are "neat" If i'm gonna compute though....i have a laptop. If i'm gonna read.....thats what i got a Kindle for.

I will probably never play Angry Birds.

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 9:06:38 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

So ALL corporations are evil huh?

No. Just like all people aren't evil. But all living people harbor some aspect of their persona that is, or has the potential to do, evil. In this-and the legal sense-corporations are like people. Now, when you start talking about a corporation with tens of thousands of employees and multiple C-level heads, then you get a complex polyglot personage.

Of course, this discussion is for "large" corps, not ma and pa S-corps or LLCs, naturally. Those are always evil.

ETA: KIDDING! KIDDING, Jeff!

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 11/29/2011 9:07:29 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

back on the west coast (the best coast, as N.W.A. might have crooned) tithe......little bit of a shock to the system going from sandals, shorts, palm trees and beautiful south beach women to cold, fog, drizzle and goth/tree hugger women...

Were you visiting or 'straight outa' Compton, KEM?

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