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Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/11/2011 9:09:14 AM   
macroeconomics

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/28/2004
Status: offline 		I've noticed that my land based tactical bombers often are not allowed to strike enemy surface fleets even though the hot hex in the sea zone appears to be within the bomber's normal range. Tactical bombers quite close to the hot hex are allowed to strike enemy fleets in that sea zone. Is it WAD that land based air has a more restrictive range limit when making naval strikes?

Secondly, I've noticed that CV battle groups are extremely difficult for land based air to defeat. Land based fighter squadrons are seemingly not allowed to fly air superiority missions over sea zones, even when they contain an enemy CV. Thus, when bombers are sent to attack the enemy CV fleet, they fly straight into the carrier's fighters and suffer casualties 90% of the time without being able to drop their bombs. I would suggest that land based air be allowed to fly air superiority missions over sea zones with enemy ships in them, perhaps at an efficiency penalty. At present the CV battle fleets are practically invulnerable to land based air.

Overall I think ToF does a pretty good job of fitting together the interaction between naval, air and amphibious operations. Pulling off a Sea Lion seems to require that the attacker have all the expected pieces in place and the game doesn't appear to allow the cheapo sneak invasions like many other WW2 strategy games do.
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RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/11/2011 12:19:38 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		The land based tactical bombers need to be within (IIRC) 5 hexes to any hex belonging to the sea zone you wish to attack.


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RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/11/2011 1:42:11 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline 		Is this because CVs can move and potentially dodge attacks which land based airfields cannot. You can more easily have a planned series of strikes on a countries airfields, whereas CVs could be more difficult to concentrate against. In a one week turn, airfields will be in the same place to hit again each day, but where will the CV be next morning. That doesn't mean that CVs should be invulnerable, but just more difficult to hit.

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(in reply to macroeconomics)
Post #: 3
RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/11/2011 7:02:10 PM   
Razz1


Posts: 2560
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Why do you keep saying Air superiority missions.

There are no missions in TOF.

I think you confuse other players.

quote:

ORIGINAL: macroeconomics

I've noticed that my land based tactical bombers often are not allowed to strike enemy surface fleets even though the hot hex in the sea zone appears to be within the bomber's normal range. Tactical bombers quite close to the hot hex are allowed to strike enemy fleets in that sea zone. Is it WAD that land based air has a more restrictive range limit when making naval strikes?

Secondly, I've noticed that CV battle groups are extremely difficult for land based air to defeat. Land based fighter squadrons are seemingly not allowed to fly air superiority missions over sea zones, even when they contain an enemy CV. Thus, when bombers are sent to attack the enemy CV fleet, they fly straight into the carrier's fighters and suffer casualties 90% of the time without being able to drop their bombs. I would suggest that land based air be allowed to fly air superiority missions over sea zones with enemy ships in them, perhaps at an efficiency penalty. At present the CV battle fleets are practically invulnerable to land based air.

Overall I think ToF does a pretty good job of fitting together the interaction between naval, air and amphibious operations. Pulling off a Sea Lion seems to require that the attacker have all the expected pieces in place and the game doesn't appear to allow the cheapo sneak invasions like many other WW2 strategy games do.



This means the Naval aspect of the game is working correctly.

This is off set by: When you do succeed, your hits are devastating to the Navy.

I'm trying to remember....

Are your fighters in range? I believe they can intercept the Carrier fighters.

Hint....
What is your tech level?
Do you have a leader?

Hint... Level bombers work better if I remember correctly.


< Message edited by Razz -- 12/11/2011 7:31:42 PM >

(in reply to macroeconomics)
Post #: 4
RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/11/2011 9:48:14 PM   
mbar


Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline 		Is the carrier fighter intercept a factor as it would be in land based bombing?

If so then can you run a land based fighter mission to the carriers to suppress the CAP?

(in reply to Razz1)
Post #: 5
RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/11/2011 10:45:53 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		So far I can't get the German bombers to hit any Allied ships.  Does not seem to matter where I place them, and I did have fighters about. I placed fighters and bombers in/near Hamburg and nothing.




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RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/11/2011 11:17:53 PM   
Razz1


Posts: 2560
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Don't worry you can hit the ships.

Don't cry about losses.

When you do hit, they hurt allot more than you do.

Make sure you have good strength and a leader and a good combat level.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 7
RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/12/2011 2:32:07 AM   
macroeconomics

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Razz
Why do you keep saying Air superiority missions.
There are no missions in TOF.
I think you confuse other players.


I can say "Air superiority mission" or I can say "clicking the mouse button on an enemy fighter not to inflict economic losses on the enemy or prevent him from doing air recon but with the express purpose of preventing that fighter from intercepting bomber missions I plan to fly that same turn". I think "air superiority mission" is easier.

And there are "missions" in ToF. Air recon and rebasing are both "missions" separate from the standard "click on an enemy" method.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Razz
Are your fighters in range? I believe they can intercept the Carrier fighters.
What is your tech level?
Do you have a leader?
Hint... Level bombers work better if I remember correctly.


My fighters are within range of the sea zone hot hex. The tech level and leader are irrelevant. You can't use fighters to suppress carrier based air. Since air superiority missions are the de facto method by which you use fighters to escort your bombers, this effectively makes your bombers defenseless against carrier based fighters. It doesn't matter if you use tac or strat air, neither has a meaningful chance of getting past the carrier's fighters.

Historically, carriers were reluctant to spend a lot of time near land based air, but in ToF carriers are far too immune to land based air because they are immune to land based fighters. While I can understand the need to preent land based fighters from automatically locating and engaging a carrier's CAP, I think a better method might be to allow fighters to fly air superiority missions in a sea zone hot hex, but give it a fixed percentage chance (50%?) of having no effect, while expending an AP.

(in reply to Razz1)
Post #: 8
RE: Carrier air power vs. land based air - 12/12/2011 5:23:15 AM   
Razz1


Posts: 2560
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Leaders and tech levels do make a difference.
It's in the programming and also listed in the manual.
A higher technology level will give you a better chance to shoot down the interceptor and then bomb the sea zone.

Same for a leader.

Strength level makes a difference too.

Are you randomly bombing sea zones or spotting the fleet first?

You pay for bombing sea zones. It's not free like in other games.

(in reply to macroeconomics)
Post #: 9
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