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AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 7:09:17 PM   
Rising-Sun


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From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Wanted to try something different and customize 15x15 huge map along with five rivals and my alien race. I placed all factions in decent place and each have polymers and carbon fibers, just incase as well plenty of raw resources in the samn system to get them started.

So each empire's capital have a population of 500m along with 50 culture rating (boost up to 100 when the game start *grin) and 50 planet's quality rating. So i let the game run after i spend 30mins placing them in correct areas and naming Sol System with at least six planets instead of nine (correct names, earth, mars, etcs).

After one year passed by, none didnt build a space station or any ships. All of them instead of Aliens, build so many useless troops. For some reasons, no income at all with colony's taxes either. The game only except raw and luxury resources for incomes.

So i decided to adds small space port for each faction's capital and another year passed by, still nothing happen.

It seem the editor maybe still glitches, every time you guys altered the planet details, the culture rating will pop to 100 regardless.

Guess the game is meant to play as it is, not much modding or editor can do.
Post #: 1
RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 7:49:37 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		Two things.

Firstly 500 million population is incredibly low for a starting empire. Even on harsh settings you get 4 billion + pop. So they have very few people to tax.

Secondly and critically, the income is worked out by multiplying by planet quality (as fraction of 1, so 90% = 0.9) minus 0.5. This means with planet quality 50% you will get no income, with less than 50% you get negative.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 8:14:54 PM   
Manzikert

 

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Status: offline 		So at 50% quality you get no income?  Because if that si the case you didn't describe the formula correctly.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 8:17:27 PM   
Cauldyth

 

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Status: offline 		No, he described it right. 50% = 0.5, and 0.5 - 0.5 = 0.0.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 9:01:14 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Well forgot i didnt mention the taxes, it was set at 19% and 500 million cans should produce something in return. I know some goto civil actions and other issues.

Beside 50% planet quality is good planet, compare to our planet over the war years that is changing the global climates.

Next time i try this, need a decent low income setting for taxes, not sure what population. But over 1,000 millions is crazy insane, it would drag down the planet itself. Also depend on what race too, some can be overcrowded while other take up more room due to sizes.

Guess i been playing too much Moo3

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 9:17:25 PM   
wodin


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Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		We have 7 billion people on earth so surely if 1000 million is an insane population in DW then something is wrong?

Just a thought.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 9:34:46 PM   
WoodMan


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From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		1000 Million is technically not 1 billion, but I think in American language they use 1000M as 1 Billion.  I don't know if the 7 Billion people on Earth is using the American version of billion or not, but if it is 1000M on a planet is not crazy enough to drag down the planet it is only 1/7 of Earth.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 9:45:27 PM   
Cauldyth

 

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Status: offline 		Earth is 7 billion in North American usage of the term (that is, 7,000 million).

And compared to the other planets we know about in the universe, the quality of Earth is about 99%, even including the damage we've done to it.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 10:00:51 PM   
the1sean


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

1000 Million is technically not 1 billion, but I think in American language they use 1000M as 1 Billion.  I don't know if the 7 Billion people on Earth is using the American version of billion or not, but if it is 1000M on a planet is not crazy enough to drag down the planet it is only 1/7 of Earth.

Currently 1,000 Million is one billion in Britain as well.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 10:47:08 PM   
WoodMan


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quote:

Currently 1,000 Million is one billion in Britain as well.


According to wikipedia.  Though apparently we also use metric for distance in Britain... even though I've never seen a roadsign in kilometers or a speedo that has *just* kph, everything is in miles.  I remember when I worked in America for a while everyone had this joke going about me and the metric system, though I didn't have a clue about it because we don't really use it.


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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/16/2011 11:33:36 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Well in earthling or human terms yes, its different for all races. Of course that will never come around unless they do some solid ground works on economic. Have to realise its the size of the planet and the quality as well. Happiness and Government settings take effects too.

Im just saying that it seem they have the formula alittle off here on income due to population IMO.

If any of you guys ever playing Master of Orion Series, esp part three have pretty good economic system, based on races, race's suitable planet and quality of the planet.

Only thing that is missing is the gravity of the planet, each races have different reactions to it.

Its no biggies, just trying to figured out what they been doing and overcome the problems.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 12:41:20 AM   
Gelatinous Cube


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Status: offline 		This is not MoO3, this is Distant Worlds. The developers have put a lot of care and thought into this universe, why hold it to the standard of a different one?

Most games have an awfully unrealistic model for population growth, but when you factor in emigration the model used in DW is very good and consistent. A standard measuring stick for how to tax your worlds is this:

Below 1000M: Don't tax much. Keep them happy, keep them growing.

Between 1000M and 1500M you can start taxing heavy if you need the money, but try to keep it around +15 or so.

And usually somewhere between 1500M and 2000M you can tax them all the way down to +5 happiness if you want, but there's just no way they will emigrate faster than they can breed--and if they do, they'll just be emigrating to those smaller worlds you oh-so-smartly didn't tax heavily, right?

Homeworlds usually max out between 15000M and 25000M for your homeworld, depending on race and other stuff that I'm not sure about. This is completely reasonable. If we were to use all the scientific might available today just for providing food and living space, there's no reason we could not have a world where 20 Billion (as in 20,000M) lived happily here on Earth. The only thing stopping it is this whole pesky not-having-figured-out-how-to-unite-under-a-world-government thing.

In a science fiction scenario where almost magical technologies are being employed, and planets are governed like cities, there's no reason in the world this shouldn't be plausible.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 12:57:50 AM   
Rising-Sun


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From: Clifton Park, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

This is not MoO3, this is Distant Worlds. The developers have put a lot of care and thought into this universe, why hold it to the standard of a different one?

Most games have an awfully unrealistic model for population growth, but when you factor in emigration the model used in DW is very good and consistent. A standard measuring stick for how to tax your worlds is this:

Below 1000M: Don't tax much. Keep them happy, keep them growing.

Between 1000M and 1500M you can start taxing heavy if you need the money, but try to keep it around +15 or so.

And usually somewhere between 1500M and 2000M you can tax them all the way down to +5 happiness if you want, but there's just no way they will emigrate faster than they can breed--and if they do, they'll just be emigrating to those smaller worlds you oh-so-smartly didn't tax heavily, right?

Homeworlds usually max out between 15000M and 25000M for your homeworld, depending on race and other stuff that I'm not sure about. This is completely reasonable. If we were to use all the scientific might available today just for providing food and living space, there's no reason we could not have a world where 20 Billion (as in 20,000M) lived happily here on Earth. The only thing stopping it is this whole pesky not-having-figured-out-how-to-unite-under-a-world-government thing.

In a science fiction scenario where almost magical technologies are being employed, and planets are governed like cities, there's no reason in the world this shouldn't be plausible.


Well i still disagreed with you on something here, everyone have their ideas and im not trying to make this like MoO3. Just needed to clear few things up that all. The game isnt perfect or even close to it, but pretty good real time strategy game for space actions.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 1:15:14 AM   
Gelatinous Cube


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Joined: 10/26/2011
Status: offline 		oh, no there's certainly no accounting for taste. Mostly I was just trying to give you a good guide on how to tax your worlds.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 7:19:47 AM   
Theluin


Posts: 189
Joined: 5/13/2011
From: Europe, Terra
Status: offline 		From my observations a planet with 50% qulity may have income albeit a very low one. If you couple that with a tiny population of 500m the planets probably have something like 0.8k yearly income so even if the AI taxes them at 50% it would take a lot of time to acquire the 10k or so that the AI SSP designs usually cost

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Post #: 15
RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 10:23:25 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

oh, no there's certainly no accounting for taste. Mostly I was just trying to give you a good guide on how to tax your worlds.


I wasnt trying to be rude, but next time i will try alittle higher around 1,000m to 1,500m. Guess if the planetary income started to rise, the AIs will build those missing freighters after the space port is constructed.
-------------------------------
After doing some test runs, it seem that 2,000m with planet's quality of 65 is decent starting population setting. For some reasons culture go glitches, may well put in 100% for the capital, if you planning on adding additional faction planets. Giving each factions 50k credits to spend from the start.

Depend on race you are playing, the income is around 3k and its not bad for beginning. The AIs is now starting to build from stratch, cuz i didnt add any spaceport, troops or ships near the planet. Keep in mind, when making new home for your faction, the resource reserved are low and no telling what will happen if the AIs go too far and lacking of building ships, etcs. As far i can tell, there no way to alter or modified the resources on that planet.

Here another thing i was looking into, i wouldnt mind making a HUGE galaxy map for Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5. I can dig up the maps for Star Trek and dont have much infos for BSG and B5. Only way this will work, that you have to make a map for each factions for the players can choose from, then save it on HD.

Still have some infos i modified from GC2 for Star Trek and few other games, by adding the details and maps to this game would be interesting. Just wish they had setup map to load.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 12/17/2011 1:27:31 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 4:21:10 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

1000 Million is technically not 1 billion, but I think in American language they use 1000M as 1 Billion.  I don't know if the 7 Billion people on Earth is using the American version of billion or not, but if it is 1000M on a planet is not crazy enough to drag down the planet it is only 1/7 of Earth.


Not where I am from. 1,000,000,000,000 = 1 Billion. 1,000 million is just completely wrong. As far as I am concerned there are 7 billion people on earth, not 7,000 million.

We go million, billion, trillion....etc just like the UK.

What we don't use is metric. My house is built with studs on 16 inch centers, I drive 50 miles to get anything more than basic groceries, and the speed limit is 70 miles per hour. Other examples: weight in pounds, gas in gallons, etc.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 5:22:29 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

1000 Million is technically not 1 billion, but I think in American language they use 1000M as 1 Billion.  I don't know if the 7 Billion people on Earth is using the American version of billion or not, but if it is 1000M on a planet is not crazy enough to drag down the planet it is only 1/7 of Earth.


Not where I am from. 1,000,000,000,000 = 1 Billion. 1,000 million is just completely wrong. As far as I am concerned there are 7 billion people on earth, not 7,000 million.

We go million, billion, trillion....etc just like the UK.

What we don't use is metric. My house is built with studs on 16 inch centers, I drive 50 miles to get anything more than basic groceries, and the speed limit is 70 miles per hour. Other examples: weight in pounds, gas in gallons, etc.


I was trying to figured out the minimum settings for each factions that have low income, then working way upward. I wasnt sure what the lowest setting would be unless have the right formulas. Populations, Planet's Quality, Happiness, Race (bonus if any) and Character like Governer, etcs.

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 5:26:52 PM   
Gandalf


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Joined: 12/15/2010
From: Jefferson City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

1000 Million is technically not 1 billion, but I think in American language they use 1000M as 1 Billion.  I don't know if the 7 Billion people on Earth is using the American version of billion or not, but if it is 1000M on a planet is not crazy enough to drag down the planet it is only 1/7 of Earth.


Not where I am from. 1,000,000,000,000 = 1 Billion. 1,000 million is just completely wrong. As far as I am concerned there are 7 billion people on earth, not 7,000 million.

We go million, billion, trillion....etc just like the UK.

What we don't use is metric. My house is built with studs on 16 inch centers, I drive 50 miles to get anything more than basic groceries, and the speed limit is 70 miles per hour. Other examples: weight in pounds, gas in gallons, etc


Actually, 1,000,000,000,000 (12 zeros) = 1 Trillion here in the USA... If not, our national debt is beyond redemption.

< Message edited by Gandalf -- 12/17/2011 5:30:24 PM >

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RE: AIs doesnt seem right - 12/17/2011 7:31:43 PM   
Keston


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Status: offline 		This could explain how international lending of a billion and collecting a billion could end up a total loss.

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Post #: 20
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