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Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack?

 
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Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/22/2011 3:31:04 AM   
randal7

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		Because in my current game I had the +100% HiTech wonder, and when I acquired the Techno Nexus the additional 100% never showed in the research screen. I let the game run for 7+ months to see if it was just delayed, but no luck.
Post #: 1
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/22/2011 5:42:43 AM   
balto

 

Posts: 1123
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I am sure they would stack, all the research stuff stacks (scientists, govt, race, wonders, research locations). Hmmmm.

(in reply to randal7)
Post #: 2
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/22/2011 9:13:31 AM   
sbach2o

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		I think the space for displaying the diverse bonuses in the research screen is limited. The list will remain truncatad. On a higher resolution screen a lot of space will remain blank.

The numbers in a game, where I have all three research wonders built but only one of the special sites (Hi Tech) settled, are inconclusive. The actual research output I am getting in Hi Tech is much higher than in the two other areas, but I also have higher bonuses in Hi Tech. My leader adds 10 % and a researcher on a Hi Tech space station also gives a pretty good bonus.

I do not have the game before me, but the numbers I remember are approximately:

Empire capacity: ~1250
Installed research capacity: ~1350 in each area (Energy slightly behind the other two)
Total Weapons research output: ~1850
Total Energy research output: ~1800
Total Hi Tech research output: ~2800(?)

Goverment: Way of the Ancients (+50%)
Race Bonus: +10% (Ackdarians main race)

I have a researcher with a 20% empire bonus and +~20% to Hi Tech, +~5% to energy on a Hi Tech station (+20% from location).
Best Weapons research location is 29% and best for energy just 15% or lower.

Note, my installed research capacity if overbuilt by a factor of three, I'd only need ~450 in each area to reach my empire's limit.

If I'd have to guess, I think that the wonder and ruins bonuses are added for 200% total. Whether that bonus is multiplicative or additive with other bonuses, I am not sure. Nedrear thinks that most or all bonuses are supposed to be multiplicative. This certainly cannot apply to the wonder and ruins bonuses, those do not multiply with each other or my Hi Tech research would be much farther ahead. Otherwise, the bonuses multiplying each other is credible. How else could I get a research output five times my empire's capacity?

< Message edited by sbach2o -- 12/22/2011 9:40:35 AM >

(in reply to randal7)
Post #: 3
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/22/2011 3:36:12 PM   
Howard Mitchell


Posts: 449
Joined: 6/3/2002
From: Blighty
Status: offline 		I have the same in my game - the special ruins which add +100% to a branch of research do not stack with the wonder that does the same.

_____________________________

While the battles the British fight may differ in the widest possible ways, they invariably have two common characteristics – they are always fought uphill and always at the junction of two or more map sheets.

General Sir William Slim

(in reply to sbach2o)
Post #: 4
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/22/2011 10:23:52 PM   
randal7

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		After looking again I think sbach2o is right. The bonus is not listed, but is applied nevertheless.

(in reply to Howard Mitchell)
Post #: 5
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/22/2011 10:57:01 PM   
balto

 

Posts: 1123
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		See if my calculation of Research helps you determine if it is working. Go here, http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2987897 it is more detailed in how the calculations work. Please let us know if the math works and the ruin is working. If it is not, that would have to be a bug.

If you want, post your research screen and I will do the math for you. Please do not take offense to what I just stated in the previous sentence.

(in reply to randal7)
Post #: 6
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/27/2011 8:51:54 AM   
sbach2o

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		More information:

First, I was checking the numbers. It is indeed so that between Weapons and Energy research output (see my numbers above, they're a bit off, Energy research output was lower) match perfectly when all factors are accounted for the way Nedrear and Balto suggest, i.e. the listed bonuses are multiplicative.

With Hi Tech (remember: in contrast to the other two areas, I have both the ruins and wonder bonuses here) it doesn't match.

But: looking at the listing of bonuses in the research screen, I have an inexplicable entry:

+25% bonus to Hi Tech resear... and nothing more. The entry is truncated after the second 'r' in 'research'. Taking these 25% into account as another factor everything matches. I can only assume that this is the actual ruins bonus, as I have no other source of a bonus that could provide these 25%. All else is accounted for, a leader bonus of 10% to Hi Tech, a super-genious scientist (+20% to everything), the ordinary scientist and research location bonuses, race and government.

And it gets better. At some point the number flipped from '+25% bonus to Hi Tech resear' to '+35% bonus to Hi Tech resear' and Hi Tech output went up .

In the mean time I managed to colonize another research bonus ruins site (for Energy). That hasn't reflected into the research output at all, yet. IIRC, the colony has meanwhile erected a space port, so getting the bonus (or some bonus) doesn't depend on that.

So the fixed ruins bonus shown in the information dialog may not match the actual number? It may be a variable of up to 100%, depending on population or whatever. Let's just hope, it doesn't depend on the fraction of the bonus description text that is shown in the research screen.

< Message edited by sbach2o -- 12/27/2011 9:01:25 AM >

(in reply to balto)
Post #: 7
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 12/27/2011 8:47:41 PM   
balto

 

Posts: 1123
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Very interesting.

(in reply to sbach2o)
Post #: 8
RE: Are wonders and ruins supposed to stack? - 2/28/2012 7:39:12 AM   
feeling

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 2/27/2012
Status: offline 		in my playing, the bonus for tech research of wonders and ruins can not stack.

(in reply to balto)
Post #: 9
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