RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 2:30:50 PM

paullus99

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A deliberate attack works in your favor - better odds of not completely disrupting your army & the potential to wreck his, at least in the short term. If you can keep this up, it will force him to strip from elsewhere.

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Post #: 5671

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 3:51:34 PM

Powloon

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I would also come down on the side of a deliberate attack. Your quandry I think is you are worried about his reinforcing his positions. I think Raders quandry is knowing which site to reinforce. If you maintain a series of deliberate attacks at your different landing sites I think it will make Raders life extremly difficult.

You could also mount up the 3rd wave under CV cover and try a landing in Western Honshu he can't be strong everywhere.

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Post #: 5672

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 4:03:30 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
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quote:

Simple math tells me his IJN is wrecked other than KB...

I think the BC's CA's and Yamato are gone. Probably a bunch of CL's too. That leaves the KB, without much escort and depleted of most good pilots (although they have been away a bit, Rader probably trained up some more) and a bunch of big BB's. do we know where Mushashi, Nagato, Mutso, Hyauga, Ise, Fuso & Yamashiro are? I think one or 2 of these were sunk but that still leaves a bunch of big guns unaccounted for. As I said elsewhere. I suspect they were Raders Souther/Sea of Japan reaction force and I would not be surprised to see them chuuging up sometimes soon. Might be a one way trip but if Rader can slip them in at night they can cause a really bad day. We know the game engine favors Japanese night fighting over Allied radar so if Rader can get past some early air strikes he will F$@k up the landings

_____________________________

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Post #: 5673

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 4:04:25 PM

dekwik

Posts: 90
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: Atlanta
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If you fly in paras the combat replay will read like it's a shock attack but your other troops will be on the right setting (deliberate)The paras will take it on the chin, but you won't wreck the other formations shock attacking against high forts.

I've been able to load supply only convoys with auxiliary only escorts to TROOPS ALREADY ON SHORE without CD interference. Of course, I've never seen that many CD guns in one hex either...

Both issues seem pretty realistic IMHO.

(in reply to Powloon)

Post #: 5674

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 4:07:00 PM

dekwik

Posts: 90
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: Atlanta
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Do you have house rules against dropping paras (in force of course) in a non base hex?
I thought (maybe only way back when...) that moving from enemy occupied hex to enemy occupied hex was not possible. Or am I just remembering Avalon Hill ?

(in reply to dekwik)

Post #: 5675

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 4:12:46 PM

jeffk3510

Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Simple math tells me his IJN is wrecked other than KB...

I think the BC's CA's and Yamato are gone. Probably a bunch of CL's too. That leaves the KB, without much escort and depleted of most good pilots (although they have been away a bit, Rader probably trained up some more) and a bunch of big BB's. do we know where Mushashi, Nagato, Mutso, Hyauga, Ise, Fuso & Yamashiro are? I think one or 2 of these were sunk but that still leaves a bunch of big guns unaccounted for. As I said elsewhere. I suspect they were Raders Souther/Sea of Japan reaction force and I would not be surprised to see them chuuging up sometimes soon. Might be a one way trip but if Rader can slip them in at night they can cause a really bad day. We know the game engine favors Japanese night fighting over Allied radar so if Rader can get past some early air strikes he will F$@k up the landings

I would agree with that 100%

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Post #: 5676

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 4:25:57 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Simple math tells me his IJN is wrecked other than KB...

I think the BC's CA's and Yamato are gone. Probably a bunch of CL's too. That leaves the KB, without much escort and depleted of most good pilots (although they have been away a bit, Rader probably trained up some more) and a bunch of big BB's. do we know where Mushashi, Nagato, Mutso, Hyauga, Ise, Fuso & Yamashiro are? I think one or 2 of these were sunk but that still leaves a bunch of big guns unaccounted for. As I said elsewhere. I suspect they were Raders Souther/Sea of Japan reaction force and I would not be surprised to see them chuuging up sometimes soon. Might be a one way trip but if Rader can slip them in at night they can cause a really bad day. We know the game engine favors Japanese night fighting over Allied radar so if Rader can get past some early air strikes he will F$@k up the landings

I would agree with that 100%

Hey!! Who let those worms out of their can?

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 1/18/2012 4:28:10 PM >

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Post #: 5677

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 4:27:47 PM

jeffk3510

Posts: 4132
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From: Kansas
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No biggy. I love every aspect of this game, and have virtually zero complaints...other than not enough time!

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Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 5678

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 5:38:19 PM

GreyJoy

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Beppi, i thank you so much for the time devoted to my cause. Thanks my friend.

To all the other contributors...thanks guys...you've all been very helpfull, as always. And i owe you more than a piece of the successes i had so far in this match.

However, the die is cast. We have ordered a deliberate attack + a para landing, supported by 700 TBs (8k feet), 800 LBs, 700 DBs, and a series of naval bombardments.

I've chosen this option only because of the 2-days-turn...with a full shock attack the second day would have ended in a tragedy even if the first day was a good one.

If i well understood this method this will imply the distruction of my reinforced para division, with the bonus of having a doubled AV and saving my ordinary army from a bloodbath if things don't go well...

The paras can be sacrified imho... they are fully prepped for Aikita and i have no other place to use them (everything in Japan is very well garrisoned)...so their mission is to sacrifice themselfs there...

One more thing...Aikita is a clear terrain hex!!!

Castor... here's the evidence that convoys composed only by xAKs carrying supplies get shot by the CD guns...

from my last cbt report file...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Akita (117,55)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

233 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Cape Greig
xAK Cape Stephens
xAK Cape Chalmers, Shell hits 7

xAK Cape Greig firing at 42nd Division
xAK Cape Greig fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Stephens fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Chalmers fired at enemy troops
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
12cm 10YT DP Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
8cm T88 DP Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Akita (117,55)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

87 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Admiral Nulton, on fire
xAK Cape Juby
xAK Cape Romano

xAK Admiral Nulton fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Juby fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Romano fired at enemy troops
xAK Admiral Nulton fired at enemy troops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Akita (117,55)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

97 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Cape Greig
xAK Cape Stephens
xAK Cape Chalmers

xAK Cape Greig firing at 42nd Division
xAK Cape Greig fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Stephens fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Chalmers fired at enemy troops

Invasion Support action off Akita (117,55)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

233 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
xAK Mormactern
xAK Cape Greig
xAK Cape Stephens
xAK Cape Chalmers, Shell hits 1

8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Mormactern at 12,000 yards
8cm T88 DP Gun Battery engaging xAK Mormactern at 12,000 yards
xAK Cape Greig fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Stephens fired at enemy troops
xAK Cape Chalmers fired at enemy troops
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm Infantry Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T94 Mtn Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
10cm T91 Howitzer battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
75mm T90 Field Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
12cm 10YT DP Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
12cm 10YT DP Gun battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers
15cm T96 Howitzer battery firing at xAK Cape Chalmers

...and i could go on....all these xAKs were in 2 Big TFs composed only by xAKs with only supplies loaded...

At Hachinoe things got really worst for the xAKs carryin supplies....35 of them got sunk by CD guns...

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Post #: 5679

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 5:43:36 PM

paullus99

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Well GJ - they didn't sign up to be supply clerks, they signed up to jump out of perfectly good airplanes....nobody said they wanted the easy jobs.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

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Post #: 5680

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 5:44:34 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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my LRCAP cover over Aikita will be halved. 1600 fighters will guard Hakodate and 1550 will fly over Aikita (so probably i won't have more than 350 planes stationing there)...this is because only one amphib TF will remain at Aikita, with the rest of my fleet that will come back to Hakodate (and so it will need cover).
Yesterday defeats should have lowered enough most of japanese air squadrons....i expect big numbers also for today, but at least i hope their morale will be pretty low...

I just need to keep the air controll only for one more turn over Aikita...one more turn...

At Hachinoe my army is still fatigued and distrupted...

...but at least it has already built almost everywhere 4 forts

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Post #: 5681

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 5:46:39 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Well GJ - they didn't sign up to be supply clerks, they signed up to jump out of perfectly good airplanes....nobody said they wanted the easy jobs.

LOL

So true...

Beppi is right...if i don't try the attack now i will regret for the rest of the match...i know...

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Post #: 5682

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 5:54:40 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Simple math tells me his IJN is wrecked other than KB...

I think the BC's CA's and Yamato are gone. Probably a bunch of CL's too. That leaves the KB, without much escort and depleted of most good pilots (although they have been away a bit, Rader probably trained up some more) and a bunch of big BB's. do we know where Mushashi, Nagato, Mutso, Hyauga, Ise, Fuso & Yamashiro are? I think one or 2 of these were sunk but that still leaves a bunch of big guns unaccounted for. As I said elsewhere. I suspect they were Raders Souther/Sea of Japan reaction force and I would not be surprised to see them chuuging up sometimes soon. Might be a one way trip but if Rader can slip them in at night they can cause a really bad day. We know the game engine favors Japanese night fighting over Allied radar so if Rader can get past some early air strikes he will F$@k up the landings

True John, very true.... that's why i'm not staying one more moment than what is strictly necessary on those risky positions.... I'm taking all the precautions i could master... a safety belt around Aikita composed of subs, ASW TFs, DD Divisions and PT TFs...can't do much more in enemy waters...

If he comes tomorrow...well, he will find only 1 of my Amphib TF unloading supplies...not a single man to drown (sp?!)

However i fully agree. The Combined Fleet is halved, but not defeated. Still mighty and can still make a "Leyte Gulf" "coup de teatre"...so let's remain focused

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Post #: 5683

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 6:23:33 PM

Jzanes

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It looks like you are counting on the paradrop to double your AV. This is a false assumption that has been refuted time and again over the years. For some reason people continue to believe it even though it's been tested over and over and has been shown to be untrue.

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Post #: 5684

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 6:27:27 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kfsgo

Ok, in thinking about this I had a look around. I guess Japan at this point should control something like 10,000LI and 8000HI centers, so I guess supply production will be about 30,000t per day once you factor in oil refineries. Think you're burning up more than that per day?

Interesting view of the situation kfsgo....but i'm sure i cannot provide 30k supplies per day on my landing sites....i have plenty of supplies in hokkaido (4milions now) and nearly every week arrives a convoy with 400000 supplies and 200000 fuel....but the chain is long and i cannot hope to bring every day 15k supplies botoh at aikita and hachinoe...

I think i have to win with brute force here or accept the failure and contain the losses and swiitch back to a boring (but safer) strat bombing campaign...

Pity because i really think if i was a bit bolder and attacked before (even witih less prepared troops) i could have achieved the victoryo i'm looking for....

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Post #: 5685

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 6:29:28 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jzanes

It looks like you are counting on the paradrop to double your AV. This is a false assumption that has been refuted time and again over the years. For some reason people continue to believe it even though it's been tested over and over and has been shown to be untrue.

Oh....well...so we've lost our paras for nothing....

Thx for the info mate...i'll live with my mistakes and pay for them the price of blood (of my men

)

(in reply to Jzanes)

Post #: 5686

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 6:51:44 PM

jeffk3510

Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
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Not so fast GJ...

_____________________________

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Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

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Post #: 5687

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 6:52:06 PM

jeffk3510

Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jzanes

It looks like you are counting on the paradrop to double your AV. This is a false assumption that has been refuted time and again over the years. For some reason people continue to believe it even though it's been tested over and over and has been shown to be untrue.

Do you care to elaborate, or show some sort of proof?

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to Jzanes)

Post #: 5688

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 6:54:25 PM

beppi

Posts: 382
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jzanes

It looks like you are counting on the paradrop to double your AV. This is a false assumption that has been refuted time and again over the years. For some reason people continue to believe it even though it's been tested over and over and has been shown to be untrue.

Mhhhh, i cannot run a test right now. Can only do it in a few hours . But as far as i remember (and the last shock drop is not longer than a real life week ago) if you do a shock drop it works and clearly doubles your AV. Regarding to a shock+deliberate i am not 100% sure.

Last time i used it:

Bunch of divisions, around 5,4k unadjusted AV with a lot of arty attack around 3k japanese troops. And around 50% of the attacker AV were 50xp chinese corps.

Shock + paradrop resulted in 16,?k adjusted attacker AV.

Without a paratrooper bonus the maximum adjusted AV without shock bonus related to the rules should be around 6k. If you count all the bonis + the 100% prepping and so on. If you double it as a normal shock attack without paras it should not be higher than around 12k AV. But i had 16k AV.

Can add the combat log later if you want and i will conduct a test, cause now i want to know.

Usually as long as i did not conduct a systematic test i always hazard with arguing but i am quite sure that there is a paradrop bonus.

< Message edited by beppi -- 1/18/2012 6:58:28 PM >

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Post #: 5689

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 7:08:21 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

If he lands more supplies arent the CD guns going to have another pop on him unless he's captured the base?

How long can he maintain his beachhead without resupply/reinforcements?

if only supply is unloaded then he can do that in the face of CD guns as long as he wants to. I have never seen CD guns actually firing at ships only unloading supply even though a combat replay pops up to be finished instantly. Don't know if it's a bug or just my version of he game but all those invasions my opponents and me have done has the CD crews just watching the enemy happily unloading supplies.

Nope they will, at least in certain circumstances. I just resupplied an invasion of Wake with three LSTs with supply only and the few CD guns there shot them up, sinking two. Should have had a CA with them.

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Post #: 5690

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 7:47:45 PM

Schlemiel

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Perhaps it's related to artillery actually listed as cd units? I know Japan gets relatively few units designated as such and one spawns at Wake.

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Post #: 5691

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 8:24:07 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
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Three words: RAG-NA-ROK!

Good luck GJ. This will be a test of the para drop feature. I've received conflicting advice on whether it's real.

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RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 8:36:42 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

If he lands more supplies arent the CD guns going to have another pop on him unless he's captured the base?

How long can he maintain his beachhead without resupply/reinforcements?

if only supply is unloaded then he can do that in the face of CD guns as long as he wants to. I have never seen CD guns actually firing at ships only unloading supply even though a combat replay pops up to be finished instantly. Don't know if it's a bug or just my version of he game but all those invasions my opponents and me have done has the CD crews just watching the enemy happily unloading supplies.

Nope they will, at least in certain circumstances. I just resupplied an invasion of Wake with three LSTs with supply only and the few CD guns there shot them up, sinking two. Should have had a CA with them.

They most definitely do shoot up supply TFs. In a Marianas scenario, my Allied opponent lost bunches of LCTs to the Saipan guns whilest attempting to resupply his Saipan invaders.

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Post #: 5693

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 8:46:07 PM

Cribtop

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From: Lone Star Nation
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One stray comment.

When I first began reading this AAR, I mentally put the emphasis on the word "inexperience," like so:

The power of INEXPERIENCE.

Seeing the Ops GJ has pulled since the Hokkaido invasion, I read the title with the emphasis as follows:

The POWER of inexperience.

Not sure this makes sense outside of my bizarre mind, but I think you get the drift.

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Post #: 5694

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 9:04:22 PM

Jzanes

Posts: 471
Joined: 11/18/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jzanes

It looks like you are counting on the paradrop to double your AV. This is a false assumption that has been refuted time and again over the years. For some reason people continue to believe it even though it's been tested over and over and has been shown to be untrue.

Do you care to elaborate, or show some sort of proof?

seems like there was a thread testing this not so long ago but i couldn't find it after an hour of using the wonky search function. i guess we'll just have to see GJ test it for us...

(in reply to jeffk3510)

Post #: 5695

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 9:16:52 PM

dekwik

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Joined: 9/22/2007
From: Atlanta
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quote:

Oh....well...so we've lost our paras for nothing....

I doubt it. In an attack on Sydney I saw better results when I used paras (albeit in much smaller numbers than you have.) The problem is that with two days turns, you need to drop them all on one or they take much more casualties on the second day, when your other troops may even be too disrupted to attack again. It's not a 100% improvement though. I'd guess 10% is more realistic.

This game always surprises me. Of course there's problems with various results and routines but it's often best to just think of it in real world terms. If I drop a Div of paras will it help my assault? Yes. Will it hurt my paras? Of course. Is it worth it? Depends on the Dice. I mean, the Gods of War. Same with supplying troops on a beach head. I'm pretty sure (anecdotal) there's a better chance of your ships taking much less damage in a re-supply op than if they were part of an amphibious first wave. Another die roll probably

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Post #: 5696

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 9:40:35 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Three words: RAG-NA-ROK!

Good luck GJ. This will be a test of the para drop feature. I've received conflicting advice on whether it's real.

Yes mate, see you in Valhallah, for fight togheder in the day of Ragnarok!!!

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 5697

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 9:43:24 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

One stray comment.

When I first began reading this AAR, I mentally put the emphasis on the word "inexperience," like so:

The power of INEXPERIENCE.

Seeing the Ops GJ has pulled since the Hokkaido invasion, I read the title with the emphasis as follows:

The POWER of inexperience.

Not sure this makes sense outside of my bizarre mind, but I think you get the drift.

Thank you crb

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 5698

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 9:46:08 PM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dekwik

quote:

Oh....well...so we've lost our paras for nothing....

I doubt it. In an attack on Sydney I saw better results when I used paras (albeit in much smaller numbers than you have.) The problem is that with two days turns, you need to drop them all on one or they take much more casualties on the second day, when your other troops may even be too disrupted to attack again. It's not a 100% improvement though. I'd guess 10% is more realistic.

This game always surprises me. Of course there's problems with various results and routines but it's often best to just think of it in real world terms. If I drop a Div of paras will it help my assault? Yes. Will it hurt my paras? Of course. Is it worth it? Depends on the Dice. I mean, the Gods of War. Same with supplying troops on a beach head. I'm pretty sure (anecdotal) there's a better chance of your ships taking much less damage in a re-supply op than if they were part of an amphibious first wave. Another die roll probably

I completely agree with your vision. And that's exactly what i tell to myself any time things dont't go as they were supposed to do...it's the right "alea" of war!

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Post #: 5699

RE: HAIRY TO THE BONE - 1/18/2012 9:47:57 PM

GreyJoy

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...waiting for the turn...probably less than 30 minutes....

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 5700