Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

Again some tested information related to an Attack + Paradrop

1.) Paradrop clearly works
2.) You cannot bring down more than one fort with a deliberate attack just with raw AV. Multiple Combat engineering units may still help. Did not test it.

Attacker Losses:

ShockDrop >= Shock >>>> DeliberateDrop >= Deliberate

Defender Losses:

ShockDrop = Shock = DeliberdateDrop = Deliberate

Adjusted Attacker AV:

DeliberateDrop > ShockDrop >>>> Shock >= Deliberate

Brougth down Forts:

ShockDrop > Shock >>>> DeliberateDrop (just 1) = Deliberate (just 1)

= identical/comparable
>= almost identical but a little more effictive
> stronger/better/higher
>>>> way stronger/better/higher

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

Again some tested information related to an Attack + Paradrop

1.) Paradrop clearly works
2.) You cannot bring down more than one fort with a deliberate attack just with raw AV. Multiple Combat engineering units may still help. Did not test it.

Attacker Losses:

ShockDrop >= Shock >>>> DeliberateDrop >= Deliberate

Defender Losses:

ShockDrop = Shock = DeliberdateDrop = Deliberate

Adjusted Attacker AV:

DeliberateDrop > ShockDrop >>>> Shock >= Deliberate

Brougth down Forts:

ShockDrop > Shock >>>> DeliberateDrop (just 1) = Deliberate (just 1)

= identical/comparable
>= almost identical but a little more effictive
> stronger/better/higher
>>>> way stronger/better/higher

That's very interesting beppi! So the best adjusted AV is deliberatedrop...albeit this doesn't bring down many forts...

Thanks a lot for testing it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

Again some tested information related to an Attack + Paradrop

1.) Paradrop clearly works
2.) You cannot bring down more than one fort with a deliberate attack just with raw AV. Multiple Combat engineering units may still help. Did not test it.

Attacker Losses:

ShockDrop >= Shock >>>> DeliberateDrop >= Deliberate

Defender Losses:

ShockDrop = Shock = DeliberdateDrop = Deliberate

Adjusted Attacker AV:

DeliberateDrop > ShockDrop >>>> Shock >= Deliberate

Brougth down Forts:

ShockDrop > Shock >>>> DeliberateDrop (just 1) = Deliberate (just 1)

= identical/comparable
>= almost identical but a little more effictive
> stronger/better/higher
>>>> way stronger/better/higher

That's very interesting beppi! So the best adjusted AV is deliberatedrop...albeit this doesn't bring down many forts...

Thanks a lot for testing it!

For large stacks clearly yes. That is because with a deliberate+drop only your paras get killed and the remaining troops fight only the normal combat phase. With a shock drop the paras get not mauled that bad but you suffer a lot of disabled squads during the free firing pass of the defender for the rest of your units prior to the shock and the drop modifier.

But the difference is not that big between deliberatedrop and shockdrop, but that massivly depends on the overall combat strength of both sides.

Same goes during the test for shock and deliberate without a drop. Usually shock is much stronger, but with larger attacker/defender stacks you suffer a way more disabled squads during the free firing pass so the adjusted AV prior to the final +shock bonus are much smaller than just with a deliberate attack.

Note: I only can do assumptions basing on the information from some tests for bigger stacks. As noone except the developers knows the engine exactly I can just assume something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Riskier than a three beachhead invasion of Honshu into the teeth of the enemy's defenses?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Riskier than a three beachhead invasion of Honshu into the teeth of the enemy's defenses?

GJ, I salute your cajones, Sir. A bold effort. I wonder whether any invasion of Honshu can succeed. Hmmm.

Looking forward to whatever's next.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

Actually, dont panic.

1.) The deliberate attack wasnt as bad as it could have been, you killed much more troops than expected.
2.) What the hell happened


Attacking force 169013 troops, 3511 guns, 3985 vehicles, Assault Value = 6550
Defending force 220400 troops, 2417 guns, 2284 vehicles, Assault Value = 7402
Allied adjusted assault: 2116
Japanese adjusted defense: 4550

You only get 2116 adjusted AV with 6500 late war allied AV ?
You sure that all your troops joined the deliberate attack and you arty did a bombardement ?3

It is very strange and uncommon for late war allied troops to get such bad adjusted AV, especially if you boost your forces with a paradrop, if your troops are on 100 prep and with the neccesary HQs.
japanese AV were pretty low too, but i assume most japanese troops are not prepped so nothing strange here.

3.) Nothing is lost, nothing is gained but:

Squads: 7 destroyed, 171 disabled
Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 226 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 37 (4 destroyed, 33 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

You disabled a solid 400 sqads in one attack, 170 combat ones. You know what that means ?

Now a phase of rest and recovery follows, continue to hit your targets each day with 2E/4E forces. Trust me if you disable a 1500 AV each 10 days it is more than deadly.
Join in with your BB Tfs whenever possible. No you moved in, now you cannot just "leave", especially if there is no real danger.

The only position you should conside to reinforce is you blocking force. It is quite weak so if anyhow possible ship a 2000 or so more in. That is your weak point. Your troops sitting there, you do no lose anything.

You are only really need a base to upgrade devices. Rest and recovery works in the open and your troops draw replacements. It is just a little bit slower than in a base. Just dont panic

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Riskier than a three beachhead invasion of Honshu into the teeth of the enemy's defenses?

...well..when you start to dance it's better to dance till the very end!

However the problem remains...how could Rader possibly move all those non-motorized troops from Hachinoe (contested) to Akita (contested) in 2 days (3000 AVs arrived the very first day and the next 2000 the second day)...

That's what really screwed me imho...but it's my fault...i should have tested it...i should have asked...while i'm a dumbass and always want to do my own way...well done GJ

Should i dunkirk and prepare another big operation for 1945? Or should i simply sit in Hokkaido and strat bomb?

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Riskier than a three beachhead invasion of Honshu into the teeth of the enemy's defenses?

...well..when you start to dance it's better to dance till the very end!

However the problem remains...how could Rader possibly move all those non-motorized troops from Hachinoe (contested) to Akita (contested) in 2 days (3000 AVs arrived the very first day and the next 2000 the second day)...

That's what really screwed me imho...but it's my fault...i should have tested it...i should have asked...while i'm a dumbass and always want to do my own way...well done GJ

Should i dunkirk and prepare another big operation for 1945? Or should i simply sit in Hokkaido and strat bomb?

Possible some strat reseves. It is possible to strat move into an hex with enemy units. So if he had units in strat mode at Ominato he could have moved them in two turns. I did not think about that and actually there would have been a way to delay that at least 1-2 more ingame days. Sorry for that.

Do not dunkirk, losses will be massive. You cannt reembark your troops as fast as you can drop them. It will take multiple turns, and the main problem right now Raeder cannot even think about attacking your two big stacks. After a few days of loading you might have 2k or so of troops left. The he will kill the stacks off.

You will sit there for some more time. Do not strat bomb, as i already wrote in my last post. You are disabling a solid 170 combat squads each day with 2E/4E attacks. Continue to do that while you rest and recover your troops.

Split your combat units to increase the recovery rate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Heeward
Have you held unit cadres back in the rear to rebuild nearly destroyed units?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Damn GJ - I don't see how he could have moved that many troops in so few days days and have them ready to go in combat mode. They must have been there all along.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Heeward
Have you held unit cadres back in the rear to rebuild nearly destroyed units?

No really need to do it any more. You can buy destroyed units back with PP. It will cost something but not that much. And allies do not have the squads to rebuild more than 6-7 divisions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Rader could have had troops away from the front in Strategic mode ready to roll. They make the front in one day after being ordered in from afar in Honshu. They automatically convert to "Combat" mode upon arrival, but take a couple days to fully convert.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Rader could have had troops away from the front in Strategic mode ready to roll. They make the front in one day after being ordered in from afar in Honshu. They automatically convert to "Combat" mode upon arrival, but take a couple days to fully convert.

Thanks CB. I didn't realize that strat moved forces would have meanful impact until they were fully converted. That does make a big difference!

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Ok...think i'll sleep on it...and will do the turn tomorrow...too tired now to take any decision...

Night guys...was nice dreaming with you about an allied northern honshu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I wonder whether any invasion of Honshu can succeed. Hmmm.