Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

On the South Front:
-----
Here I've swapped positions of the 4-3 INF and the 6-3 INF (dark blue arrows). I'm pretty sure that the 4-3 can't be overrun. Even if it can (I could be wrong), the only 2 units able to do so can't move up to the front, and there aren't enough other units with the range to make terrific attacks on the river lines or the 2 cities here.

The other unit with a light blue circle, the Sevastapol MIL, I moved into the port to prevent a paradrop into Crimea.

As you can see, I've pulled most of my ARM and MECH units down from the North Front to try to make some heavier stacks. This is a long line to cover, and the USSR just hasn't got a whole lot of units to work with. If the sacrifices up north can buy a little extra time there, that's good, but this is the line that needs to hold as long as possible. I think I've got enough flexibility to adjust things next impulse. The biggest problem is that I can't keep a strong line and still have a secondary line behind it.

No sacrifices. The 4-3 needs to be behind the river.

A secondary line is a luxury the USSR can not afford. Only the HQ gets to sit comfortably out of harm's way. And that respite might only be for 1 impulse. The front line should be as strong as possible. There should never be two divisions in the same hex. Spread them out like icing on a cake: no clumps. There is a hole NE of Dnepropetrovsk that should be occupied by some random corps.

I am not going to try to tweak every hex here. But if there is a cheaper unit than the Mot to sit and die in Kiev that would be nice. Maybe the 4-1 Gar in the north should rail to Kiev instead of the Moscow Militia - since there is only 1 rail move available. Oh, but all the rail moves have been made. The lesson here is to never make your rail moves until you have thought through all your land moves. Thinking back to that 4-1, it can either die in Vitebsk or move 1 hex NE and pray.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Okay, the next 6 posts show what I've set up for the Soviets. It's the best I can do, I think.
-----
Starting off with the Far North, Leningrad should be able to hold against the enemy, so I sent the Leningrad MIL to keep tabs on Novgorod. Now that snow is extremely unlikely, I've put the black print 5-3 INF into position between the lakes, where it should stay until supply runs out -- and maybe even after that. The white print 5-3 INF (the one that might have been better off in Baku) is moving south to help with the failing Northern Front. Although you can't see it in this image, he's within range of adding protection between the swamps NE of Vitebsk, or he could move closer to Smolensk as part of a continued retreat.

I like this except for weakening Leningrad.

The 3 units in Leningrad should be immobile; consider them all to have a movement factor of 0. Leningrad is as important as Gibraltar. Occupying Novgorod is pointless at this time. If you move the 6-3 back to Leningrad in the next impulse, it will become disorganized: giving the Germans a successful ground strike against a unit in Leningrad for free.

At the first sign of a possible Finnish attack on the 5-3 in the north, that unit should retreat towards Moscow. He IS the northern frontline.]

You're the one who told me that Leningrad could survive on 2 units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lordzyplon

No problem, happens to me all the time F2F. See my edit, as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

On the South Front:
-----
Here I've swapped positions of the 4-3 INF and the 6-3 INF (dark blue arrows). I'm pretty sure that the 4-3 can't be overrun. Even if it can (I could be wrong), the only 2 units able to do so can't move up to the front, and there aren't enough other units with the range to make terrific attacks on the river lines or the 2 cities here.

The other unit with a light blue circle, the Sevastapol MIL, I moved into the port to prevent a paradrop into Crimea.

As you can see, I've pulled most of my ARM and MECH units down from the North Front to try to make some heavier stacks. This is a long line to cover, and the USSR just hasn't got a whole lot of units to work with. If the sacrifices up north can buy a little extra time there, that's good, but this is the line that needs to hold as long as possible. I think I've got enough flexibility to adjust things next impulse. The biggest problem is that I can't keep a strong line and still have a secondary line behind it.

No sacrifices. The 4-3 needs to be behind the river.

A secondary line is a luxury the USSR can not afford. Only the HQ gets to sit comfortably out of harm's way. And that respite might only be for 1 impulse. The front line should be as strong as possible. There should never be two divisions in the same hex. Spread them out like icing on a cake: no clumps. There is a hole NE of Dnepropetrovsk that should be occupied by some random corps.

I am not going to try to tweak every hex here. But if there is a cheaper unit than the Mot to sit and die in Kiev that would be nice. Maybe the 4-1 Gar in the north should rail to Kiev instead of the Moscow Militia - since there is only 1 rail move available. Oh, but all the rail moves have been made. The lesson here is to never make your rail moves until you have thought through all your land moves. Thinking back to that 4-1, it can either die in Vitebsk or move 1 hex NE and pray.

I had to make the 4-3 sacrifice, because this was the best I could do with the movement points of the units available. There was no spare Corps for that hole in the line, and there was no better unit to take the place of the MOT. I railed the Moscow MIL there (as suggested by . . . I forget) because it can die and be rebuilt to serve on the Moscow Line next turn. Otherwise, he's doing nothing of value with his 2 movement points.

About 1/3 of these units came from the Gomel, Bryansk and Kursk region. Even the fast units could only get so far down south. If I want to "tidy up" this line before the Germans get there, the sacrifice had to be made. I figured out which hexes could be attacked without him being there, and it didn't look good. With him there, and with the bombers too far off to hurt the line, I still have time to fix things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

On the South Front:
-----
Here I've swapped positions of the 4-3 INF and the 6-3 INF (dark blue arrows). I'm pretty sure that the 4-3 can't be overrun. Even if it can (I could be wrong), the only 2 units able to do so can't move up to the front, and there aren't enough other units with the range to make terrific attacks on the river lines or the 2 cities here.

The other unit with a light blue circle, the Sevastapol MIL, I moved into the port to prevent a paradrop into Crimea.

As you can see, I've pulled most of my ARM and MECH units down from the North Front to try to make some heavier stacks. This is a long line to cover, and the USSR just hasn't got a whole lot of units to work with. If the sacrifices up north can buy a little extra time there, that's good, but this is the line that needs to hold as long as possible. I think I've got enough flexibility to adjust things next impulse. The biggest problem is that I can't keep a strong line and still have a secondary line behind it.

No sacrifices. The 4-3 needs to be behind the river.

A secondary line is a luxury the USSR can not afford. Only the HQ gets to sit comfortably out of harm's way. And that respite might only be for 1 impulse. The front line should be as strong as possible. There should never be two divisions in the same hex. Spread them out like icing on a cake: no clumps. There is a hole NE of Dnepropetrovsk that should be occupied by some random corps.

I am not going to try to tweak every hex here. But if there is a cheaper unit than the Mot to sit and die in Kiev that would be nice. Maybe the 4-1 Gar in the north should rail to Kiev instead of the Moscow Militia - since there is only 1 rail move available. Oh, but all the rail moves have been made. The lesson here is to never make your rail moves until you have thought through all your land moves. Thinking back to that 4-1, it can either die in Vitebsk or move 1 hex NE and pray.

I had to make the 4-3 sacrifice, because this was the best I could do with the movement points of the units available. There was no spare Corps for that hole in the line, and there was no better unit to take the place of the MOT. I railed the Moscow MIL there (as suggested by . . . I forget) because it can die and be rebuilt to serve on the Moscow Line next turn. Otherwise, he's doing nothing of value with his 2 movement points.

About 1/3 of these units came from the Gomel, Bryansk and Kursk region. Even the fast units could only get so far down south. If I want to "tidy up" this line before the Germans get there, the sacrifice had to be made. I figured out which hexes could be attacked without him being there, and it didn't look good. With him there, and with the bombers too far off to hurt the line, I still have time to fix things.

The 4-3 could have filled the hole.

The Bf110E can do the ground strike on the 4-3 (40% success). The PARA can put him out of supply if the ground strike succeeds. Rundstedt can overrun the 4-3.

Here is a rule of thumb: a single unit alone in a clear hex will almost always be overrun by armor. You can do calculations out your ears and you will find that your d###ed opponent will find a way to overrun him. I am a very good chess player and I am very good at math. But my opponent of many years (who is a grand master at chess) proved to me on numerous occasions that I could never be sure that my calculations were correct. Hence my rule of thumb.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


The 4-3 could have filled the hole.

The Bf110E can do the ground strike on the 4-3 (40% success). The PARA can put him out of supply if the ground strike succeeds. Rundstedt can overrun the 4-3.

Here is a rule of thumb: a single unit alone in a clear hex will almost always be overrun by armor. You can do calculations out your ears and you will find that your d###ed opponent will find a way to overrun him. I am a very good chess player and I am very good at math. But my opponent of many years (who is a grand master at chess) proved to me on numerous occasions that I could never be sure that my calculations were correct. Hence my rule of thumb.

Granted the para could drop to put the unit out of supply, but it would have to clear through the intercept from the I-16?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

Doesn't an escort mission still disorganize the unit?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Okay, the next 6 posts show what I've set up for the Soviets. It's the best I can do, I think.
-----
Starting off with the Far North, Leningrad should be able to hold against the enemy, so I sent the Leningrad MIL to keep tabs on Novgorod. Now that snow is extremely unlikely, I've put the black print 5-3 INF into position between the lakes, where it should stay until supply runs out -- and maybe even after that. The white print 5-3 INF (the one that might have been better off in Baku) is moving south to help with the failing Northern Front. Although you can't see it in this image, he's within range of adding protection between the swamps NE of Vitebsk, or he could move closer to Smolensk as part of a continued retreat.

I like this except for weakening Leningrad.

The 3 units in Leningrad should be immobile; consider them all to have a movement factor of 0. Leningrad is as important as Gibraltar. Occupying Novgorod is pointless at this time. If you move the 6-3 back to Leningrad in the next impulse, it will become disorganized: giving the Germans a successful ground strike against a unit in Leningrad for free.

At the first sign of a possible Finnish attack on the 5-3 in the north, that unit should retreat towards Moscow. He IS the northern frontline.]

You're the one who told me that Leningrad could survive on 2 units.

That was because there was a reinforcement coming in as the 3rd unit. And because the Germans couldn't possibly get to the hex to help the Finns attack. Once the Germans get within 2 impulses of being adjacent to Leningrad, extreme paranoia is justified. Taking Leningrad is more import to the Germans than almost any other hex in Russia. [Emphasis mine] When defended with strong units it is extremely difficult to take. That can't be said for any other hex in the Soviet Union.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

On the South Front:
-----
Here I've swapped positions of the 4-3 INF and the 6-3 INF (dark blue arrows). I'm pretty sure that the 4-3 can't be overrun. Even if it can (I could be wrong), the only 2 units able to do so can't move up to the front, and there aren't enough other units with the range to make terrific attacks on the river lines or the 2 cities here.

The other unit with a light blue circle, the Sevastapol MIL, I moved into the port to prevent a paradrop into Crimea.

As you can see, I've pulled most of my ARM and MECH units down from the North Front to try to make some heavier stacks. This is a long line to cover, and the USSR just hasn't got a whole lot of units to work with. If the sacrifices up north can buy a little extra time there, that's good, but this is the line that needs to hold as long as possible. I think I've got enough flexibility to adjust things next impulse. The biggest problem is that I can't keep a strong line and still have a secondary line behind it.

No sacrifices. The 4-3 needs to be behind the river.

A secondary line is a luxury the USSR can not afford. Only the HQ gets to sit comfortably out of harm's way. And that respite might only be for 1 impulse. The front line should be as strong as possible. There should never be two divisions in the same hex. Spread them out like icing on a cake: no clumps. There is a hole NE of Dnepropetrovsk that should be occupied by some random corps.

I am not going to try to tweak every hex here. But if there is a cheaper unit than the Mot to sit and die in Kiev that would be nice. Maybe the 4-1 Gar in the north should rail to Kiev instead of the Moscow Militia - since there is only 1 rail move available. Oh, but all the rail moves have been made. The lesson here is to never make your rail moves until you have thought through all your land moves. Thinking back to that 4-1, it can either die in Vitebsk or move 1 hex NE and pray.

I had to make the 4-3 sacrifice, because this was the best I could do with the movement points of the units available. There was no spare Corps for that hole in the line, and there was no better unit to take the place of the MOT. I railed the Moscow MIL there (as suggested by . . . I forget) because it can die and be rebuilt to serve on the Moscow Line next turn. Otherwise, he's doing nothing of value with his 2 movement points.

About 1/3 of these units came from the Gomel, Bryansk and Kursk region. Even the fast units could only get so far down south. If I want to "tidy up" this line before the Germans get there, the sacrifice had to be made. I figured out which hexes could be attacked without him being there, and it didn't look good. With him there, and with the bombers too far off to hurt the line, I still have time to fix things.

The 4-3 could have filled the hole.

The Bf110E can do the ground strike on the 4-3 (40% success). The PARA can put him out of supply if the ground strike succeeds. Rundstedt can overrun the 4-3.

Here is a rule of thumb: a single unit alone in a clear hex will almost always be overrun by armor. You can do calculations out your ears and you will find that your d###ed opponent will find a way to overrun him. I am a very good chess player and I am very good at math. But my opponent of many years (who is a grand master at chess) proved to me on numerous occasions that I could never be sure that my calculations were correct. Hence my rule of thumb.

Sorry, Steve, but you're wrong here. The PARA cannot put him out of supply in order to let an overrun happen. That's because an overrun happens during Land Movement, which comes before a paradrop -- which is an attack. Yes, it can put the unit OOS, but not in a way that lets the Germans reach the Dnieper.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

Doesn't an escort mission still disorganize the unit?

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Germany has no o-chit this turn & I'm not certain that Red Prince has built one (or is saving up for one).

At any rate, IMO the USSR is looking reasonably strong in the north: localized air superiority until the Germans bring their FTR up to the Vitebsk area & the river line they are already set up behind. In addition, once the time comes to leave the river line they have forests, cities and whatnot to fall back on all the way back to Gorki.

Again, in my opinion, as long as the USSR can fall back in good order and in strength, avoid getting planes overrun, and can throw up roadblocks (whether speedbumps or strongpoints) to slow the Germans down, they can handle some losses. Their goal is to trade space & units for time. The Americans are in, effectively a year earlier than usual, so the Germans have only one summer to get things done.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, I would fly the HE 100 as escort for the ground strike, effectively rebasing him without using an air mission.

Doesn't an escort mission still disorganize the unit?

Yes.

What I believe will happen is that the Germans will rebase their Stukas forward in their 1st impulse. Then fly their Stukas on Ground Strike missions on their 2nd impulse. Rebase some of their other bombers forward on their 3rd. Fly those bombers on their 4th. So a pure fighter will be stuck in the far rear at the end of the turn. Might as well send him 4 hexes closer to the ever moving front now. But other players might want to keep him organized for moving forward in the hope that the turn lasts a long time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Where it looks really scary to me is the south: faster Germans, better tank terrain, more Stukas. Losses there could result in the USSR needing to pull units away from the north, leaving them short there (or short in both sectors).

Also, one thing which I am probably not taking into account is that Red Prince is playing with Railway Movement bonus, which makes things a lot easier for the ARM/MECH in the forests as long as they're travelling along a rail line (indeed, 4-moving units can follow a rail line through a swamp without disorganizing).

Let's see where the Axis are at after this impulse, especially with regards to the disposition of the air forces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Where it looks really scary to me is the south: faster Germans, better tank terrain, more Stukas. Losses there could result in the USSR needing to pull units away from the north, leaving them short there (or short in both sectors).

Also, one thing which I am probably not taking into account is that Red Prince is playing with Railway Movement bonus, which makes things a lot easier for the ARM/MECH in the forests as long as they're travelling along a rail line (indeed, 4-moving units can follow a rail line through a swamp without disorganizing).

Let's see where the Axis are at after this impulse, especially with regards to the disposition of the air forces.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I'm not so sure about using up two good ground-striking planes so early in the turn on ground support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I'm not so sure about using up two good ground-striking planes so early in the turn on ground support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

There's Bulgarians in the port on the junction of the Baltic & North Seas (Aarhus, I think?) and in Copenhagen.

The Germans want to bottle the Allies up on the island and keep them there. If they can hold on to Aarhus (they need a second corps & an anti-tank gun) they can look into mounting an easier counter-attack, although they will need some blitz forces to do so, and I'm not certain they can spare those.