Slitherine

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If Bill has a personal situation with doesn't allow him to continue games due to time constraints or something, that is very different and ok. But to quit games just to play another because your opponent has a good start is wrong IMO.

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ORIGINAL: Schmart

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley
And the rules say you need fort units to get to level 3. I have a lot of level 2 forts around that i want to take to the next level but 8 ap per fort was too much for my blood. I had other things i'd rather spend AP on. :)

Be sure to maximize this. Any hex adjacent to a Fort can get to lvl 3. Lvl 4 needs a Fort in the hex. So to get a line of lvl 3 you only need a Fort every 3 hexes, with other units in between. Also, Forts go down to 4 APs IIRC in Nov 1941. I usually start building my 'Stand-Fast Line' in an arc 5-7 hexes outside Moscow. Even starting on turn 1, it's tough to get much above lvl 3 before the Germans arrive, and they can usually push back a few forts just before mud. Attach all the Moscow area Forts to an HQ and load a bunch of Construction Brigades into the HQ to help dig. But don't rely on Forts: Rifle Divisions have to do the digging, Forts just get it up to lvl 3. You can use 'Digger Armies' in a similar fashion in other areas, or just pump a bunch of Const Bdes into a regular HQ to help those units dig faster.

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ORIGINAL: jzardos

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ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Don't go nuts on those forts. They are actually quite useless for doing anything other than preventing fort decay during the winter. You can't actually do much to fortify in poor weather now, the penalties are huge. If you haven't got forts dug in already, don't expect much.

As far as calling games go, my position is this: runaways aren't interesting. If a match isn't competitive and one side or the other is just being taken to the cleaners, it's completely ok for the loser to acknowledge this, throw in the towel, admit he's lost, and start over. Nor should the winner feel "robbed." If he has any sense of honor whatsoever, he'll actually feel embarrassed at how badly it's going for the other side and take the win. There's no need to humiliate the other guy.

Glad to see you trying to help Bill and not insult his intelligence or his opponents motives playing the game. There are people out there, which are friends, that like to play these types of game and also keep them interesting and going because it's such a huge time investments. But if both sides agree before a game starts that it's not until the end or some real life constraints, nobody should quit (before auto-vic). I'll always make that clear before I start games now, but still obviously no guarantees.

I'm glad Bill has seen the honor in playing on and there's nothing wrong with abulbulian being a sportsman and agree to some terms to keep the game fun. It's their game...

I agree not to go crazy on forts, don't build any new ones until they are cheap in Nov. Get lots of Sapper and RR construction units, and spread them out to each army in a zone with diggers.

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ORIGINAL: Pelton

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ORIGINAL: jzardos

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ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I would be resigning here, tbh. And Abul gave you a break by Moscow, yes. He doesn't want you throwing in the towel, plainly, but you probably should.

I think this is a very poor attitude and it only leads to people quitting games way too early. I should know as I was in the same boat and a player quit my game just before winter. It was very upsetting and almost made me questioning ever playing against a human opponent. This is not the type of game given the huge amount of time invested to just decide to quit 20 turns into a 200 turn game. People that like to quit games should only play AI or stick to smaller scenarios. Luckily another player on the forum saw my plight and picked up the game where the other person left.

Personally I thinking the people claiming it is over are off base. Sure it was a good start for the Axis, but a lot can happen in the next 4 years. It seems Bill was able to keep his industry at about a historical level? With that said, manpower is something the Soviets will get plenty of each turn. The minimum I've received as Soviets when I was pushed back a lot further than this was 110,000 per turn. That's 1 million men every 9 turns! Let me repeat for some of you... 1 million men every 9 turns. This does not include all the Siberians and other units the Soviets get late 41. So they can grow back their army relatively quickly.

Also, historical loses for the Soviets were around 5-6 million at the end of 41, depending on your sources. So he's still under that.

But I'm very ashamed for some of the comments here about this game. As long as Bill is having fun playing on and looks forward to the challenge .. people should support him. So rather than give him advice to quit the game (like a quitter would .. IMO) let's give him advice to try and turn this around.

In Flaviusx defence I have had 8 poeple drop out in 41 and another 3 in 42.

It is a game and if your not having fun then I have no problem with the other guy dropping out.

If you can gain something from the game keep playing if not then play again.

Have fun should be the goal.

Pelton

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley
Thanks for the tip with the hq's for forts i didn't even think of that! I typically use RR brigades instead of construction brigades since the RR was a twofer (rr repair and construction value). Has that changed in a patch since launch day? I don't recall if it has.

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ORIGINAL: Encircled

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If Bill has a personal situation with doesn't allow him to continue games due to time constraints or something, that is very different and ok. But to quit games just to play another because your opponent has a good start is wrong IMO.

He's toast, and his opponent has taken his foot of the gas to give him a chance. There isn't any point in continuing when your opponent has to help you out.

You take it as experience and make sure you do better next time!

Mind you, if you are still having fun, then its up to you!

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ORIGINAL: Schmart

I see that you have Zhukov commanding Lenningrad Front, your smallest and quietest Front. Surely he can be put to better use elsewhere?

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley

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ORIGINAL: Schmart

I see that you have Zhukov commanding Lenningrad Front, your smallest and quietest Front. Surely he can be put to better use elsewhere?

Very true! I never had the AP to move him until last turn. Then forgot lol. It's on my list of generals to move. I was thinking i'd just put him in stavka and hope he'll help with some of my rolls.

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ORIGINAL: jzardos

Not bad, 300 armaments seems to be decent amount after 41 is over? You should be able to move any others factories you want over the next several months, given there will be no Axis advances and you'll have plenty of spare rail capacity each turn.

With 100k manpower each turn, your army should build up fairly well before the German summer 42 offensive. The new attack mods for Axis attacking in March are a step in the right direction. You'll be getting the Siberians now until end of year, which are full tough units. The tough thing with the Soviets is the units are still relatively low in exp and morale even in late 42, especially the newer Tank and Mech corps. I would not use those until they have a change to build up their exp and morale. Very brittle units...

Glad you have a positive attitude and it does sound like you guys are having fun. Also, at the same time doing some exploratory testing for WitE which is fantastic to have a full campaign of this data for the developers. People need to understand that aspect.

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ORIGINAL: delatbabel

bwheatley, you are underestimating the strength of the German 1942 offensive. It begins in the first week of March and doesn't stop until the end of December, and there is even a late winter surge in 42/43. Only by that stage can you turn it around. It's also stronger because the rail heads are closer, and you don't have as far back to fall.

Your army has been reduced to about 3.6 million men, by this stage of the war it needs to be about a million more, maybe 1.5 million. You'll gain about a million over the winter, and lose about 2 million next summer. So you need to be holding shortened lines, not the entire front.

You're not going to hold the Don line or the Kerch straits in '42, nor are you going to hold Moscow or Stalingrad. You do need to look at fortifying that Volga line back between Yaroslavl and Gorky, and the lines north of Baku. You need to start on that now or you won't get time to do them in 1942, and fortifications build much more slowly in the winter & mud seasons, especially mud.

I wouldn't be bothering using 20+ RR brigades repairing the lines into Moscow, you need at least half of those back in the Yaroslavl/Ivanovo area to hold off the attacks there. I assume your rail network has most of your factories out, but you need to protect them -- if he starts overrunning places like Magnitogorsk or Zlaoust your game is over, and it's similarly over if he takes Baku.

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ORIGINAL: delatbabel

bwheatley, you are underestimating the strength of the German 1942 offensive. It begins in the first week of March and doesn't stop until the end of December, and there is even a late winter surge in 42/43. Only by that stage can you turn it around. It's also stronger because the rail heads are closer, and you don't have as far back to fall.

Your army has been reduced to about 3.6 million men, by this stage of the war it needs to be about a million more, maybe 1.5 million. You'll gain about a million over the winter, and lose about 2 million next summer. So you need to be holding shortened lines, not the entire front.

You're not going to hold the Don line or the Kerch straits in '42, nor are you going to hold Moscow or Stalingrad. You do need to look at fortifying that Volga line back between Yaroslavl and Gorky, and the lines north of Baku. You need to start on that now or you won't get time to do them in 1942, and fortifications build much more slowly in the winter & mud seasons, especially mud.

I wouldn't be bothering using 20+ RR brigades repairing the lines into Moscow, you need at least half of those back in the Yaroslavl/Ivanovo area to hold off the attacks there. I assume your rail network has most of your factories out, but you need to protect them -- if he starts overrunning places like Magnitogorsk or Zlaoust your game is over, and it's similarly over if he takes Baku.

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley

In regards to the RR units unless i missed something you can't control them. The HQ's dispatch them where they want to. If there is a way to control where they go now i'd be glad to hear about it. :)

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ORIGINAL: Encircled

In March '42, he will walk right through your front line, and encircle a lot of troops, and then he will do it again throughout June-Dec

You haven't anywhere enough troops to survive that, unless you plan a really, really, really deep defence and pull right back.

If you do that, then you probably can't win, but at least you will last '42

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ORIGINAL: Schmart

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ORIGINAL: bwheatley
Thanks for the tip with the hq's for forts i didn't even think of that! I typically use RR brigades instead of construction brigades since the RR was a twofer (rr repair and construction value). Has that changed in a patch since launch day? I don't recall if it has.

Actually, I meant to say RR Const Bdes. There aren't any non-RR Const units. Only Sapper and RR Construction. The Const Bdes are cheaper (in armaments) to build, so I only build those in 1941. HQs give construction boosts of any Const or Sapper units to attached units, including forts. You can also attach Const or Sapper units directly to forts, but that's a bit expensive in admin pts to manage. I just keep them in the HQs.

I try to keep my digger armies as static as possible, as re-assigning forts costs admin pts after the first one (from STAVKA).

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ORIGINAL: delatbabel


By "control" I mean move them to a more appropriate HQ. You should probably move about half of the ones you have back to Stavka (and lock) and then next turn move them to HQs that are in command of forts along the line you want to dig, plus add some more (and lock). 5 RR construction brigades per HQ in the rear area line is not too many, you can always disband the excess in 43 (although I find that building surplus in 41 and keeping them just means I don't use the NKPS units as much).