Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: paullus99

Pelton - and you've tested this? I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you, it isn't worth my time. I'm going to dive back into the game and see some results with my own eyes - something that you're not even bothering to do.

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ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

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The Red Horde will have an extra 1.5 million men at the front, allot more Rifle corp. and 4 months worth of forts.

You conveniently ignore the fact that the axis have more men and more divisions in 1944/45 due to avoiding Stalingrad-like losses. (Look at the axis OOB in the Oloren/terje AAR -3.2m Germans in April 1945 and 7k AFVs)

There is zero evidence that having 1.5m more men in the OOB is getting the soviets into Berlin before 1st May 1945. The Axis are capturing Moscow far more often.

I do agree that 1943 can become a WW1 slugfest, but this is due to neither side being able to create conditions for successful mobile warfare - the Axis know that a Citadel re-dux is doomed, and the Red Army isn't quite able to tip the front into mobile attack/defence. I am really not sure this is due to the game structure/mechanics, but rather axis hindsight, and Soviet inexperience of building the right army and using it in a more focused manner. There are signs of some Soviet players "turning the corner", and we may start seeing unstoppable Soviet juggernauts being created in 1943, rather than 1944 onwards, which is all we have seen in AARs to date.

As the game has evolved, several hurdles have been met and needed to be overcome: Firstly the Blizzard which was fixed in 1.04, then the 1942 Wall of level 4 forts, which was fixed with 1.05, but with the by-product of "March Madness".

The changes in 1.05.59 still give the Axis the best chance of creating a winning position in 1941, and a non-losing position in 1942, until such time as we see Soviet players learning better survival techniques for 1941/42 and learning how to build a war-winning Army in 1943, in the same way the Axis learned to survive and do well in 1941 prior to 1.04, when the cards were definitely stacked against them.

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ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

I played it out vs Hoooper till the end. That end was in 1944 however

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ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

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ORIGINAL: Pelton

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ORIGINAL: Commanderski

The rule changers look impressive and it's obvious that Matrix and 2X3 put a lot of effort and thought into this.

I think that maybe we should wait until it's released and we actually use it before we make any criticisms.

The Red Horde will have an extra 1.5 million men at the front, allot more Rifle corp. and 4 months worth of forts.

yes or no?

No.

Rifle corps can't be built before June. They are mostly not worth making in 1942 anyways. Forts get built as slow as molasses during mud and snow. Level 3s are nearly impossible to build in mud, as a matter of fact, even with generous engineering support.

The Red Army will also be grappling with a severe command crisis which you ought to be able to take advantage of.

You will no longer have an ahistorical and deeply silly Axis March 1942 offensive. This is completely intended.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

It should be noted that my game vs. Tarhunnas was a 1.04 game. Huge difference in 1942 in the Soviet's favor.

Also, the Soviets, with the latest patch, are losing about 1 mil manpower in 1943/44. Additionally, they will need approx. 50% more Army HQs, or approx. 15-20, tying up an additional 200,000 men for no combat gain. Doesn't that put a dent in Soviet Manpower?

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ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Funny, I'm building tank corps in April, not rifle divisions. And rifle divisions come at the low low price of 20 APs in March. There's better places to spend your APs until that drops.

In an ideal world the number of rifle divisions that a Soviet player wants to build is approximately zero. The ones he gets for free are sufficient and then some. It's only when you start losing lots of them that you need to replace them; my rough and ready rule to keep around 400 rifle division equivalents on map.

If you build too many rifle divisions and then flip them over to corps, your replacement situation won't keep up with the numbers. 150 such corps is pushing the limits of your replacement capacity. See Terje's AAR for an example of the problems of overbuilding.

Finally...rifle corps just kinda suck in 1942. They are overpriced and underpowered until 1943. You are in effect spending 20 APs to exchange 30,000 men for 20,000 men. That's not a bargain. (Only with the 42c October corps does the exchange rate become even.)

Rifle corps are primarily an offensive tool, and in 1942 you won't be on the offensive, nor can they accomplish much by themselves without lavish fire support from artillery divisions. You really need to stick to divisions until at least October. A handful of guards rifle corps in summer of 1942 can help defend some key targets, but the numbers ought to be strictly limited.

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ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Pelton, you can't really use your own Axis games as an indication for the average because whereas you're an OK attacker as long as the way you use HQ buildup works, you're a poor defender.

Little to no forts, or an enormous amounts of fortified zones that provide little to no benefit, and not much in the shape of other preparations. You're also pulling out of vast areas at certain times, you're giving your opponent territory for free without any fight at all.

Someone like Ketza knows how to defend as the Axis, you still have to learn it before you can call your own experience representative of what the Axis can do.

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ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Pelton, no. Just...no.

Look. The time to stockpile APs is during the blizzard. (I'm continually surprised at how many Soviet players don't do this, but I digress.)

Come spring of 42, the bank gets drawn down. There will be no further stockpiling for quite some time. You won't be stockpiling anything from April on, you'll be living hand to mouth until Voronezh front arrives. And then you somehow have to scrape up enough APs for artillery divisions and mech corps by years end.

The mass rifle corps conversion comes in 1943 when the cost drops to 10 APs per.

You don't really understand the evolution of the Red Army, the costs involved, or the schedule, so I'd advise you to avoid making these reckless and uninformed statements about Soviets stockpiling APs in spring of 42. That's nonsense.

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ORIGINAL: Speedy

I am always struggling for AP's as the Soviet whether it be ironing out C&C (even more important now due to historical Soviet C&C limitations), replacing leaders, building units or combining to form Corps. I don't think I've ever had more than a few dozen AP's spare as the Soviet until late war

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katza is in 43 I am in 44.

He is alrdy in trouble and 76 mm army is 7.5 million strong and not over 9 million as Kamils was. I held the front until 44. You cant defend terrain, because as Katza alrdy has stated and Tarhunnas has also the game is 100% based on a morlae time line, nt and in game results time line. Once your morale tanks its over.

I had 100's of forts, read the hole AAR not the end.

The forts as Katza nd Tarhunnas have stated are usless during 44 and almost usless during 43. Forts during 42 and 43 just keep the Russian player from attriting you do death over the hole front.

You cant defend terrain with out forts after late 42.

You got know idea what your talking about clearly. defending is easy to a point. Once the morale timeline is reached and IF the russian player built the right units your in trouble and your helpless.

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ORIGINAL: Offworlder

But am I correct to think that the reduction of German CV is only on the attack and not for defensive purposes? That would at least allow the Germans to stabilise their fronts rather than counterattacking in March.

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ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

heheh