denisonh
Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline
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When doing a data model of an actual event, you have to have a range of outcomes. This is a single outcome. IT IS PLAUSIBLE. Combat modeling involves a great deal of chaos and must account for outcomes that reflect ahistoric behavior (e.g. parking your carriers in a port within range of a large number of enemy 4e bombers).
As much as I refrain from attributional terms, you were less than thoughtful to do what you did. DON"T BLAME THE GAME.
Get over the fact you pulled a bonehead move, and move on.
quote:
ORIGINAL: btbw
quote:
ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, you have a point. I agree heavies are a bit too accurate. This is no secret just part of the game. It is not a bug though, just one more aspect of the game that you will have to get used to.
Accuracy to high yes, but it not main problem.
4E LB going on targets waves by waves.
See what happen:
Air raid of 4E LB going on port DIVIDED by waves of 1-6 planes. It ridicolus. Usable formation for level bombers was BOX. Only size and dimensions of box varied. No individual attacks for raid. It not Recon flight or Naval strike where 1-2-3 planes free to choose direction for attack and target. How you imagine 40 warbirds crossing course of each other? Or defensive shooting by gunners in chaotic flight of 40 potential victims? Never heard how friendly fire hit ships (from AAA), planes (from defense guns and even bombs)? It because you totally dont understand problem of organisation air raid.
1st wave 7 planes for example - leader see CV Soryu - dive for attack, scoring 1-2 hits.
Really? As i said before accuracy of level bombing was low so for gain 1 hit even in target like CV need more planes then just 6. My calculation is 12-13 planes per possible hit. All funboys who wanna flood here with lucky strike must first find how much planes flied without any hit and compare result. War statistic bad for funboys - 1% in naval strikes or 30% in area bombing (area, not pin-point).
2nd wave 6 planes - same target. 1-2 hits.
Well if 2nd wave follow leader strike it ok. For example recon found CV repairing in certain place, leader planned attack and direct raid via local orientirs. Above target just a few corrections and raid heading on attack course. Now only hig accuracy a problem cuz 1+2 wave must scoring only 1 hits, not 2-4.
3rd wave 5 planes - target CV Kaga. 1-2 hits.
Again too high accuracy. If we have deal with naval strike then ok - open place, good visibility, staying target, no flak, low fighter presence - it all add points to make successful hits. May be even 2, not 1. But port attack it different thing.
Not alone ship - so choosing target hard. Even so big target like CV. Bunch examples when pilots think that destroyer under their feet it battleship and merchant is fleet carrier. In port you can add camo on ships so bomber cannot divide ship from buildings. Some people remembering how Brest attacked by Brits and scoring hits. But do they remember these ships was masced and only weeks of recon + local intel provide them finally place to where target bombs. Same for Tirpitz - only few minutes left before smoke completely close target, but nazi dont got this chance. So how we see port attack it area attack with predefined coordinates of targetted ships. For LEVEL BOMBERS. Tactical bombers like Mitchells of course can strafe, skip-bomb, glide and level bombing everyting in port what they choose. Just because they have maneur for change targets and some surveliance ability over target.
B-17 have only bombsight and low turrets for obscure. And that mean when bomber incoming close to port - he maintain course on predefined target (with correction from visible marks like alone buildings, water tower etc). Yes, LEADER can redirect raid to one of biggest ship or in couple ships for better results. But leader CANNOT redirect sections on individual targets and distribute them between them. Also raid planning have predefined direction and heights of attacks. Broke plan? Got bombs on your plan. No one dont hear about smoke from bomb hits? PH fo example. Initial plan have TB first, DB after it so smoke from bomb hits dont hide targets. It was broken and result was as we know, but it can be better if signal from leader was definitely and correctly translated. And it attack bombers which can close to targets on distance when see what socks wearing captain. What will see LB from 13k feet if raid attack individually on port? First explosion near and in target - viola, smoke close target, good luck with pin-point targetting. I read about effectivness of level bombing - each attack on target lowering chance to hit area for next planes by 1.5 times. So in our example first wave (lol of course this attack cannot be done wave by wave but ok) can make 75% accuracy in 300000sqm or 1 bomb in target like CV, then next wave can make 50% accuracy and may be 1 bomb if dice roll was lucky. It all. All other hits can be random and spread around whole area. And of course NO INDIVIDUAL TARGETTING OF WAVES.
4th wave 5 planes - target CV Kaga, 1 hit if not 2 before.
5th and 6th waves 3+2 planes - target CV Shokaku, 1 hit.
rest of waves - target BB Kirishima and port, 1 hit to BB and 2 to port.
So in 1942 level bombers can divide targets and attacks them with inflicting at least 1 hit when they stayed in port. Many modern bomber pilots drool when see this result. I wonder why we need all this AGM, corrected bombs, huge amout of sensors, phase arrays if this mission can be easy solved by iron-bombing?
What must be in AAR in really?
1-3 hits to main target like CV Soryu (found by recon and targetted by formation fo B-17 with adeguate amount of bombs used on targets for score at least one hit... dammnit any air command officer have methodical papers where these digits printed and he plan attack guided by it)
1-2 hits to random ships (stayed near impact of bomb spot from raid)
2 hits or more to port (cuz it have SAME probability for hits, we remember ship stayed close to port so half of area around ship it harbour water, another pierce.)
And completely different from situation in game rigth now.
B-17 like dive bombers in their attack on Rabaul. Is it fair for wargame make unreal advantage for LB?
_____________________________
 "Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC
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RE: B-17 supremacy - 
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