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Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser"

 
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Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/19/2012 7:36:39 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		I came up with this ship for War in the Pacific and am thinking about adding it for AE if I have the time to develop my own mod.

The idea is that the Dutch are influenced by the Swedish "aviation cruiser" Gotland and build a similar ship called Celebes. Here is a screenshot of the old WitP ship. It would be refittable as a CLAA armed with British equipment later in the war.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FDRLincoln -- 2/19/2012 7:39:39 PM >

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/19/2012 7:38:45 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		I remember you did that one (way back when). Added it to my own mod.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/19/2012 7:39:45 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		I'm having trouble getting the screenshot to post.

It was a fun mod. Just lots of little toys, some real, some conjectural.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/19/2012 7:40:43 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
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From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Let's try again




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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/19/2012 7:59:51 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Remember that the Dutch had the Hazemeyer 40mm Bofors and not the 2pdr.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/19/2012 8:23:06 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Yeah, I know...that is a VERY old screenshot I found on my files. The final version had the Hazemeyer

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 2:25:59 AM   
FDRLincoln


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Status: offline 		OK, here is the Dutch "Aviation cruiser" Celebes.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 2:27:37 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Sorry about the too-big sizing there. Here is the Celebes as refitted by the British in late 1942.






Attachment (1)

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 2:28:47 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
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From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		The type 279 radar is supposed to be "all sides" of course.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 4:21:37 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
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Status: offline 		You still have the art work and shills for it laying around?

< Message edited by oldman45 -- 2/22/2012 4:22:25 AM >

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 5:11:11 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		I never did art work...I just had the game use the artwork for the Dutch Tromp-class CL. Even if I had artwork, I've never figured out how to install new art properly. I need a tutorial with that.

The idea here is that in the 1930s the Dutch took the Swedish Gotland seaplane cruiser idea and built their own version on a Tromp-style hull. It seems like something the Dutch would have been interested in.

If you don't know about the Gotland, check wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Gotland_(1933)

< Message edited by FDRLincoln -- 2/22/2012 5:12:35 AM >

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 11:19:00 AM   
oldman45


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Status: offline 		Never read about that ship before. Interesting read, thanks.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 11:23:28 AM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		I would suggest that the Celebes would probably lose her seaplane capability in the mid- to late-war scheme of things. She would no longer be needed to patrol the DEI (lost to the Japs at this point) and all those planes are a massive fire hazard during air attack. Maybe rebuild her, Tromp-style, into a CLAA? The Gotland became a CLAA after spare parts for her Osprey flotplanes ran out.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 2/22/2012 12:24:01 PM >

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 11:57:37 AM   
oldman45


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Status: offline 		If nothing else, there would be no spare parts for the planes. How about converting her into a Seaplane tender? She has all that hanger space aft, would make a great area for repair shops.

< Message edited by oldman45 -- 2/22/2012 11:59:42 AM >

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 12:03:11 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		BTW, here's the ship art I made for the Celebes waaaaaay back in the day (the blurriness is due to resizing of a normal shipside .bmp and conversion to .jpg):




Attachment (1)

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 1:15:27 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Here's a new one I just made, perhaps a bit more "in tune" with the ship's stats:




Attachment (1)

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 1:23:12 PM   
FDRLincoln


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Status: offline 		Oh, that's great art!

I have thought about a "complete CLAA conversion" as well. I think I will work on of those up. It would be about mid-1943.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 1:28:15 PM   
FDRLincoln


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From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Or there could be multiple possible upgrade paths...a mild refit with radar and extra AA but that retains her CS ability, or a refit that turns her into an AV (using the hangar as Oldman points out), or a full-scale CLAA conversion that strips out the hangar in exchange for British 4inch-DP and extra 40MM, or maybe one that keeps the hangar space but turns it into repair shops and makes her a small-but-fast AR.



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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 4:46:06 PM   
oldman45


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Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Looks good Terminus, can you post the art work so I can add it to my mod?

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 6:26:22 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Here we are. zip file includes side and shil files.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Terminus -- 2/22/2012 6:27:22 PM >

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 11:06:28 PM   
oldman45


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Status: offline 		Thank you sir

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 11:12:35 PM   
oldman45


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Status: offline 		So are we leaning towards AA cruiser or AV?

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/22/2012 11:56:24 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		AA would be far more likely, if we assume a relatively historical progress of the war. Remember that the Celebes, like the Tromp before her, is relatively small, but fast and maneuverable. It would be a waste not to use her in a direct role instead of as a support ship.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/23/2012 12:14:29 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Yeah, I am working on a CLAA conversion. Should have it done tonight.

My thinking is that the refit tree would go

CS-original configuration
CS-with improved AA and British radar, mid-1942
CLAA-retains forward 5.9s, but seaplane hangar replaced with battery of British 4-inch AA+extra 40mm/20mm, radar, mid-1943

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/23/2012 1:24:47 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Celebes AA cruiser refit.

I'm retaining the forward 5.9s for some anti-surface ability, but the hangar and all seaplanes replaced with 4inchDP mountings.




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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/23/2012 11:36:25 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
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Status: offline 		I would think if they are going to add all the equipment to make it into an CLAA, then they would go ahead and switch out the forward guns for HA mounts.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/23/2012 1:00:52 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		I thought about doing that but decided I wanted to retain a little punch for anti-surface or bombardment use. However, obviously it would be simple enough to change that in your own mod.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/23/2012 2:30:00 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		No offence, but where are the Dutch going to find new barrels for those guns once they've been worn out? Better change the whole main battery; it also makes ammunition supply easier.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/23/2012 3:03:56 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
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From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		No offense taken. If I remember correctly, Tromp retained her 5.9s through the entire war. Van Heemskerck was refitted as a pure AA cruiser by the British because she had escaped from the Netherlands in an incomplete condition without her main battery installed when the Germans invaded.

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RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" - 2/23/2012 3:44:05 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		This is true. However, the Tromp didn't actually get to fire her guns all that much. The gunboats Flores and Soemba were used extensively for shore bombardment and had to be pulled from service precisely because the Dutch ran out of spare gun tubes.

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