Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (Full Version)

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FDRLincoln -> Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/19/2012 7:36:39 PM)

I came up with this ship for War in the Pacific and am thinking about adding it for AE if I have the time to develop my own mod.

The idea is that the Dutch are influenced by the Swedish "aviation cruiser" Gotland and build a similar ship called Celebes. Here is a screenshot of the old WitP ship. It would be refittable as a CLAA armed with British equipment later in the war.



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/19/2012 7:38:45 PM)

I remember you did that one (way back when). Added it to my own mod.



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/19/2012 7:39:45 PM)

I'm having trouble getting the screenshot to post.

It was a fun mod. Just lots of little toys, some real, some conjectural.



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/19/2012 7:40:43 PM)

Let's try again

[image]local://upfiles/14706/04F8BB15ED3D4D66BE7482E15D9A74CB.jpg[/image]



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/19/2012 7:59:51 PM)

Remember that the Dutch had the Hazemeyer 40mm Bofors and not the 2pdr.



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/19/2012 8:23:06 PM)

Yeah, I know...that is a VERY old screenshot I found on my files. The final version had the Hazemeyer



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 2:25:59 AM)

OK, here is the Dutch "Aviation cruiser" Celebes.

[image]local://upfiles/14706/A04018FCFF0D46D4B0FFD6D03BBC98C2.jpg[/image]



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 2:27:37 AM)

Sorry about the too-big sizing there. Here is the Celebes as refitted by the British in late 1942.



[image]local://upfiles/14706/54463114BEEC47E6A9B5A28C5F61A90F.jpg[/image]



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 2:28:47 AM)

The type 279 radar is supposed to be "all sides" of course.



oldman45 -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 4:21:37 AM)

You still have the art work and shills for it laying around?



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 5:11:11 AM)

I never did art work...I just had the game use the artwork for the Dutch Tromp-class CL. Even if I had artwork, I've never figured out how to install new art properly. I need a tutorial with that.

The idea here is that in the 1930s the Dutch took the Swedish Gotland seaplane cruiser idea and built their own version on a Tromp-style hull. It seems like something the Dutch would have been interested in.

If you don't know about the Gotland, check wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Gotland_(1933)



oldman45 -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 11:19:00 AM)

Never read about that ship before. Interesting read, thanks.



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 11:23:28 AM)

I would suggest that the Celebes would probably lose her seaplane capability in the mid- to late-war scheme of things. She would no longer be needed to patrol the DEI (lost to the Japs at this point) and all those planes are a massive fire hazard during air attack. Maybe rebuild her, Tromp-style, into a CLAA? The Gotland became a CLAA after spare parts for her Osprey flotplanes ran out.



oldman45 -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 11:57:37 AM)

If nothing else, there would be no spare parts for the planes. How about converting her into a Seaplane tender? She has all that hanger space aft, would make a great area for repair shops.



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 12:03:11 PM)

BTW, here's the ship art I made for the Celebes waaaaaay back in the day (the blurriness is due to resizing of a normal shipside .bmp and conversion to .jpg):

[image]local://upfiles/16369/F672557ABEA74C259DFEB73FD51B6401.jpg[/image]



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 1:15:27 PM)

Here's a new one I just made, perhaps a bit more "in tune" with the ship's stats:

[image]local://upfiles/16369/CC6971E1044947038BB4CD7C9137D12A.jpg[/image]



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 1:23:12 PM)

Oh, that's great art!

I have thought about a "complete CLAA conversion" as well. I think I will work on of those up. It would be about mid-1943.



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 1:28:15 PM)

Or there could be multiple possible upgrade paths...a mild refit with radar and extra AA but that retains her CS ability, or a refit that turns her into an AV (using the hangar as Oldman points out), or a full-scale CLAA conversion that strips out the hangar in exchange for British 4inch-DP and extra 40MM, or maybe one that keeps the hangar space but turns it into repair shops and makes her a small-but-fast AR.




oldman45 -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 4:46:06 PM)

Looks good Terminus, can you post the art work so I can add it to my mod?



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 6:26:22 PM)

Here we are. zip file includes side and shil files.



oldman45 -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 11:06:28 PM)

Thank you sir



oldman45 -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 11:12:35 PM)

So are we leaning towards AA cruiser or AV?



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/22/2012 11:56:24 PM)

AA would be far more likely, if we assume a relatively historical progress of the war. Remember that the Celebes, like the Tromp before her, is relatively small, but fast and maneuverable. It would be a waste not to use her in a direct role instead of as a support ship.



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/23/2012 12:14:29 AM)

Yeah, I am working on a CLAA conversion. Should have it done tonight.

My thinking is that the refit tree would go

CS-original configuration
CS-with improved AA and British radar, mid-1942
CLAA-retains forward 5.9s, but seaplane hangar replaced with battery of British 4-inch AA+extra 40mm/20mm, radar, mid-1943



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/23/2012 1:24:47 AM)

Celebes AA cruiser refit.

I'm retaining the forward 5.9s for some anti-surface ability, but the hangar and all seaplanes replaced with 4inchDP mountings.

[image]local://upfiles/14706/716A5EB6BAC74C55892DFE7984A51A01.jpg[/image]



oldman45 -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/23/2012 11:36:25 AM)

I would think if they are going to add all the equipment to make it into an CLAA, then they would go ahead and switch out the forward guns for HA mounts.



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/23/2012 1:00:52 PM)

I thought about doing that but decided I wanted to retain a little punch for anti-surface or bombardment use. However, obviously it would be simple enough to change that in your own mod.



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/23/2012 2:30:00 PM)

No offence, but where are the Dutch going to find new barrels for those guns once they've been worn out? Better change the whole main battery; it also makes ammunition supply easier.



FDRLincoln -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/23/2012 3:03:56 PM)

No offense taken. If I remember correctly, Tromp retained her 5.9s through the entire war. Van Heemskerck was refitted as a pure AA cruiser by the British because she had escaped from the Netherlands in an incomplete condition without her main battery installed when the Germans invaded.



Terminus -> RE: Conjectural Dutch "Aviation Cruiser" (2/23/2012 3:44:05 PM)

This is true. However, the Tromp didn't actually get to fire her guns all that much. The gunboats Flores and Soemba were used extensively for shore bombardment and had to be pulled from service precisely because the Dutch ran out of spare gun tubes.



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