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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Can you upgrade and keep playing?

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Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 11:17:57 AM

mc3744

Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
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I had PBEM running for a some months and we got to May '42.
My opponent (Admiral1) and I kept upgrading the game as the patches came out, to our complete satisfaction.

A few turns after the comprehensive patch he could no longer read my turns (while I could still read whatever he sent me).
Matrix support suggested to reinstall the game, which he did. We ran one more turn all right then it crashed again. The turn wouldn't load.
Matrix suggested to restart a new game with the 8r9!
I can't say that I'm very happy about the proposed solutions

It takes months and years to run a nice game and, especially for the Allied player (i.e. me

) the first months can be slightly less fun (not necessarily) but at least a bit repetitive over time (especially since I've been playing for years WitP too).

Now my question is: if I want to make sure that I can eventually get to '43 (it would be my third trial with AE: one opponent bailed in Oct '42, one game is running, one crashed) do I have to avoid patches?

Thanks for your feedback

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RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 2:00:17 PM

pws1225

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline

Dr. Hal and I upgraded to the latest official patch a few turns ago with no problems. We used the 'official' patch available through Matrix Support. I seem to remember a thread that some users had trouble using the 'unofficial' patch from michaelm's thread (but I'm not certain about this).

Give the official patch a go. It works!

(in reply to mc3744)

Post #: 2

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 3:28:37 PM

Empire101

Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline

Go to [FAQ] Update Procedure for PBEM by Admiral DadMan in the section above this for the correct sequence of updating/patching a PBEM

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RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 6:44:51 PM

mc3744

Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline

We used the latest official patch and it worked for several turns, then it stopped working.
It's not an issue related to the "kind" of patch, or to the upgrading procedure.

Matrix says: "start a new game".
I'd like to be able to continue the one I started months back.

We understand the problem is due to the patches. Hence should I stop upgrading to preserve my running games?

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RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 6:53:31 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

Now my question is: if I want to make sure that I can eventually get to '43 (it would be my third trial with AE: one opponent bailed in Oct '42, one game is running, one crashed) do I have to avoid patches?

mc3744,

No doubt I will get shouted down here, but since you asked for opinions, I'll give you mine. Your (AND OTHERS) milage may vary.

My opinion is that it is risky to upgrade to a new patch in the middle of a game. Particularly so if the patch is newly issued. No programmers are perfect and there are (or at least as long as I can recall) some minor problems with even the official patches. Early adopters have frequently posted their disappointments. This is with the official patches.

Beta patches are too risky for my blood. That's why I've never used a-one of 'em. Probably never will either. It just seems that problems-big and small-arise unexpectedly the more the code get monkeyed with.

I've upgraded only to official patches and only after several months of others' troubleshooting of same. I've not gone wrong with this approach.

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RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 7:56:15 PM

Knyvet

Posts: 138
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

I think Chickenboy and I are among the very very few who agree. Also I was incorrectly and repeatedly told in the past by fellow players there would be no new official patch and if there was, no more unoffical patches if one did get published.

The unofficial patches are great and a lot of work goes into them in term of programming and playtesting, but be weary of people who put too much stock in them without at least acknowledging there is some inherent risk. I have been semi-attacked in the past for saying the following, but it bears repeating - there is a reason why they are classified as unofficial beta patches.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 6

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 7:58:38 PM

mc3744

Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline

Hello Chikenboy

I'm certainly not going to shout at you, I did ask indeed

It's a good point. I'll keep in consideration and forward it to my opponents when they want to upgrade

On the other end how can I know that it's the patches and not something wrong on my opponent's PC?
Why does it work on my PC?
Also,oddly enough, it always worked with the betas and we got the problem a few turns after the official upgrade

Anyway, mostly I'm pissed at having lost months of game and time!

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RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/3/2012 8:08:51 PM

Kubel

Posts: 131
Joined: 11/4/2007
From: Canadian mosquito infested swamp
Status: offline

I'm doing a PBEM and we agreed NOT to patch until this game is finished. Its May 43 and we are having a blast and don't want to chance a glitch no matter how small it may be.

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RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 1:27:34 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Wow. I feel sorry for you guys. My Allied player and I have repepeatedly upgraded our game mutiple times and never had an issue. The reason people may have issues is they do not patch correctly. The correct way is as follows:

1. Japan runs the turn
2. Japan saves the turn and exits the game
3. Japan sends the run turn (usually the 001 save) to the Allied player
4. Japan upgrades to the new version of the game
5. Japan runs the game and answers Yes to the upgrade question when loading the turn again and proceeds normally
6. Allied player runs the turn recieved from Japan using the OLD version of the game
7. The Allied player exits the game
8. The Allied player upgrades to the same version of the game as Japan
9. The Allied loads the new turn from Japan and also answers Yes to the upgrade question
10. Allied player can proceed as usual

This proceedure has worked very well for us without a single issue with about 6-7 upgrades since the betas started coming out. So stop being afraid. Besides all you really need to do to be 100% safe is to just make a copy of the entire WitP AE Directory and upgrade only one of them. If it works then great. If not, just go back to the original copy.

It REALLY is not that hard that you need to just be afraid not do it it. Between using the above and making a copy of the game, there is no way you can mess it up.

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 3/4/2012 1:29:08 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 1:36:41 AM

AW1Steve

Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

Now my question is: if I want to make sure that I can eventually get to '43 (it would be my third trial with AE: one opponent bailed in Oct '42, one game is running, one crashed) do I have to avoid patches?

mc3744,

No doubt I will get shouted down here, but since you asked for opinions, I'll give you mine. Your (AND OTHERS) milage may vary.

My opinion is that it is risky to upgrade to a new patch in the middle of a game. Particularly so if the patch is newly issued. No programmers are perfect and there are (or at least as long as I can recall) some minor problems with even the official patches. Early adopters have frequently posted their disappointments. This is with the official patches.

Beta patches are too risky for my blood. That's why I've never used a-one of 'em. Probably never will either. It just seems that problems-big and small-arise unexpectedly the more the code get monkeyed with.

I've upgraded only to official patches and only after several months of others' troubleshooting of same. I've not gone wrong with this approach.

I most sincerley agree with CB. Why take a chance. My moma didn't raise me to be a guinea pig!

That's what Beta play testers get off on! They WANT to find bugs.

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Post #: 10

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 2:21:20 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Between using the above and making a copy of the game, there is no way you can mess it up.

Thanks, Numdydar. I needed a good laugh.

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Post #: 11

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 7:04:14 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

I can't help but disagree

Can you tell me why making a copy of the entire Dir is going to mess up your game? The original Dir is untouched so the current game you are playing can continue no matter what happens to the copy you made. You could even make mutiple copies of the original Dir and/or copy them to differnt hard drives if you wanted. You could even test each of the copies to make sure they worked prior to doing any upgrades. How can this even remotely damage your current game?

I realize if you think making copies of the game Dir will mess up your game, then nothing I say will change your mind. But a HUGE number of game breaking issues have been fixed in the changes leading up to the r9 version of the game not to mention the enhancements, you are really doing a disservice to you and your opposite number by refusing to upgrade.

I figure if my opposite and I can upgrade mutiple times over the course of our game without issues, there is no reason why anyone here cannot do the same. I.E. if I can do it then anyone can

BTW, the r9 version is no longer a Beta version it is the latest OFFICIAL patch to the game. So no more guinea pigs are needed

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 3/4/2012 7:06:39 AM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 9:18:38 AM

mc3744

Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline

There are a few of things I don't get.

1) What's the difference between having a "copy" of the directory and simply re-installing the game from the CD and then upgrading it with the original patch (which is what my opponent did)? If anything it should actually be even better. Good as new.

2) How come that the problem arose only a number of turns after the install of the official patch? It's code, not weather

3) How come I play the same games on different computers (notebook and desktop) and never had a problem?

The reason why I ask these question is one: couldn't (it's a question, not an assumption) it be that Matrix support found it easier to answer "just restart", rather than figuring out what exactly the problem was? Again, just a question arising from the rest of the evidence and my ignorance on programming (not on IT in general).
And if that's the case, then patches are not the problem, my opponent PC is the problem and even if we restart a few months/weeks/days down the line I'll be back to square one.

Thanks for the help .... and be nice boys

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RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 10:26:28 AM

Alfred

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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Having a number of installs or directories is of no benefit when there is only a single game in play. You can't have multiple but slightly different versions of the same saved game turn.

What is the point of retaining the older non updated game version and save if 20 or more turns down the line the game has been played under the new version and it is then discovered a new bug or unwanted game "enhancement" is experienced. Not too many players would be pleased at having wasted so much time/turns in facing the prospect of going back to the older version.

Alfred

< Message edited by Alfred -- 3/4/2012 10:27:31 AM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 4:12:01 PM

Numdydar

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Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Alfred what you say is true. The copies will not make any difference once you upgrade and have played several (or even just one turn in some cases) as the game events under the new game will not allow you to return to the previous version of the game without redoing those turns.

The copies of the game Dir I suggested were to make sure the game would work after the upgrade and the upgrade would not make the new version crash, weird graphics, etc. and not lose the ability to keep playing the original game if they did.

While everyone's install abilities and versions of PC hardware/software are uniquie, the problems that any upgrade COULD cause are also unique. The points I was trying to make were that

a) Major issues have been addressed between the last official patch and this one that imho make the game a totally different (and better) experience. Matter of fact as the betas addressed these issues, we upgraded mutiple times. Starting around turn 300 or so was the first time all the way up to turn 700 which is where we are now (11/4/43) with not a single issue on any of the upgrades we did over that period of game time. We both felt that the issues addressed in the changes would really help make the game a better experience for both of us. Just the ability to transfer pilots in mutilpes of 1, 5 or 10 and to be able to stockpile resources/supplies/fuel/oil at bases (i.e. force the base to keep them at the base) alone were huge helps for both of us. Not to mention all the rest of the changes. So it was worth it for us to upgrade.

b) I wanted people to know that if the proceedure in my earlier post was followed, it should work you you as well as it did for us. Again, not just once, but mutiple times. We have now played 20-30 turns under the r9 versiont and still have no issues with the patch.

If anyone does not want to upgrade, that is fine

. But the game is MUCH improved under r9 and I wanted people to know what the proceedure was to upgrade that worked for us and that if we could do it mutilpe times with no issue, then I would like to think that they could too

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 15

RE: Can you upgrade and keep playing? - 3/4/2012 5:04:00 PM

Rising-Sun