RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 3:38:13 PM

CT Grognard

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I could use Kates, but I'm playing with PDU off, so I have 70 Jeans that I have to do something with.

My B5N1s and B5N2s I'd much rather use for their intended role, sinking Allied ships

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 3:39:20 PM

Mike Solli

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I understand. Gotta use each of your weapons effectively.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 3:42:50 PM

CT Grognard

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I'm quite excited about their prospects. The Jeans carry two 250kg bombs...that will really hurt a sub if they can connect.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 3:47:05 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I culled my training units today (mid-month cull). Here�s what I got:
...
Remember, I pull them when they reach 50+ experience and 70+ stat. A few notes�

The only concern I have is how long it is going to take my torpedo bomber pilots (Kates, Nells and Bettys � lots of them) to train up NavB and NavT. I

I guess this is why I use lower goals for training (+60/+40 skill/exp). It's a tough trade-off, but that last 10% getting to 70/50 takes several more weeks or in the case of IJN bombers (who all need at LEAST 2 skills if not 3) it can be even another month or two. Balanced against that I know that I am going to have both more operational and A2A losses. I'm watching here closely to see what impact your decision has upon your operational tempo here in the early going.

My opponent (AI Andy) doesn't play Sir Robin at all. He's aggressive and keeps the tempo quite high in all 3 theatres. Even if I am only stalling in a theatre, I have a very high sortie tempo and the consequent losses.

So, watching. BANZAI!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 4:53:59 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I culled my training units today (mid-month cull). Here�s what I got:
...
Remember, I pull them when they reach 50+ experience and 70+ stat. A few notes�

The only concern I have is how long it is going to take my torpedo bomber pilots (Kates, Nells and Bettys � lots of them) to train up NavB and NavT. I

I guess this is why I use lower goals for training (+60/+40 skill/exp). It's a tough trade-off, but that last 10% getting to 70/50 takes several more weeks or in the case of IJN bombers (who all need at LEAST 2 skills if not 3) it can be even another month or two. Balanced against that I know that I am going to have both more operational and A2A losses. I'm watching here closely to see what impact your decision has upon your operational tempo here in the early going.

My opponent (AI Andy) doesn't play Sir Robin at all. He's aggressive and keeps the tempo quite high in all 3 theatres. Even if I am only stalling in a theatre, I have a very high sortie tempo and the consequent losses.

So, watching. BANZAI!

Ted is a very different opponent. He's definitely a Sir Robin type. I think I can hold off for the higher standard. That won't last forever though. I'm seriously thinking about having Netties dedicated to specific missions - torp only, torp/bomb. I can't visualize bomb only.

Right now the only losses I'm taking are IJA/IJN fighters and IJA bombers to flak. Not a lot of either.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 5:58:06 PM

Crackaces

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I think we sometimes label the intial Allied reorganzation of forces in terms of the "Sir Robin" In my current game, I guess I pulled a complete "sir robin", but once organized applied judical force to complete objectives. Now November of 42 I am contesting Mandalay, kicked the IJ out of Oz, occupy all of the Gilberts, established a defensive line in the Solomons ...The IJ are more than busy ..

I state this with the thought of not in terms of total retreat, but the choice of when and where that resistance occurs and how much. A steady Allied throw everything available at the wall as soon as possible, vs. an organzied methodocal approac,h vs. what I might term as a true "sir robin" approach of withdrawal then hold till '44 made totally possible in scenario #1 ...

Is there a diference between the latter two choices for the IJ?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 6:06:45 PM

Mike Solli

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I don't think there's a real difference. My definition of Sir Robin is running for the most part, but not always (regardless of the reason). The Japanese player doesn't see what the Allied player is doing most of the time (reorganization).

If you look back at the first couple of weeks of my game, Ted expended most of the RN causing havoc. Did it really accomplish much? I think so. I wanted to try the Mersing Gambit and he totally derailed that. I ended up losing 3x AOs to a DD raid at Saigon of all places! He lost practically all of the RN DDs, which I suspect may hurt him in the long run, but The Asiatic fleet has gotten away almost without loss and the Dutch Navy has lost it CLs but not much else. He has pushed back, primarily at Pt. Moresby, and that cost me the Hiryu. I didn't like that too much.

But he's also tried to contest me in the air over Pt. Moresby and that cost him practically all the fighters he sent from the States. That's definitely hurting him. All in all, an exciting game for me definitely and I suspect for Ted as well.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 3/31/2012 6:07:32 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 7:04:11 PM

PaxMondo

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Yeah, I wouldn't call Ted playing a Sir Robin ... as you note, he has countered effectively several times. OTOH, looking at a previous game against my current opponent:

1/5/42

Aircraft pts:
allied - 1176
IJ - 394

Pilot losses K/W/M
allied - 188/216/46
IJ - 158/24/43

So, even though I am getting 3:1 on a/c which is fine; because I am on offensive my pilot losses are about even. Worse, look how high. +200 pilots lost in the first month. I'm always struggling for replacements until mid-Jan when my first "harvest" can occur. Really, I don't get even until about March 42.

What are your pilot losses? <did you post those already?>

<remember this is against Andy AI in Ironman, so he gets a LOT more aircraft.>

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 7:37:37 PM

Mike Solli

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Yeah, that is pretty high for pilot losses. Here's my pilot losses as of 15 Feb 42 (2.25 months):

K/W/M

261/45/54

Total of 360 or 160 per month. I've had a decent IJN pool from the beginning. Keep in mind that Hiryu's fighter pilots ended up there and I've had a couple of IJN fighter units withdraw, giving me those pilots as well.

Here's my current reserve:

IJA
F: 26
B: 16

IJN
F: 38
B: 57
P: 47

Edit: Since I wrote these numbers at the beginning of the turn, I use up all the IJA B pilots and ~half or more of the IJA fighter pilots.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 3/31/2012 7:38:29 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 7:49:34 PM

Mike Solli

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I'm trying to figure out how to train the TB pilots in both NavT and NavB. This is going to be tough. Here's the numbers:

Front line TB: 405
TB Training Unit Capacity: 180

Front line DB: 117
DB Training Unit Capacity: 180

I'm thinking of using all the TB training units to train NavT and a 48 capacity DB to just train the DBs. The rest of the DB training capacity will be used to train TB pilots in NavB.

Roughly speaking, that'll give me the following each month (figuring 3 months to get the stat to 70+):

NavT/NavB: 44
NavT: 16
NavB: 16

The only frontline DB units are on carriers. That's not a lot of replacement pilots, but my Vals really don't fly a lot.

I'm going to use the Netties in 4 Fleet (central Pacific) only in a TB capacity so they'll get the NavT trained pilots. I'll start swapping them out as I get those pilots trained up. Some of 22 Air Flotilla (Pt. Blair) will also be only NavT trained. Their job is to harass the RN and any merchant shipping they can reach. We'll see how that works.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 7:59:45 PM

Olorin

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How did you guys solve the problem of the insufficient replacement pilots? I tried a train-cycle of two months, but soon I was out of replacement pilots (a feature of the new beta patch?). So, I guess that a longer training cycle is pretty much forced on you.

< Message edited by Olorin -- 3/31/2012 8:00:26 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 8:00:53 PM

Mike Solli

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It just dawned on me that I was looking at the requirement incorrectly. I need NavB trained pilots on carrier aircraft and only on land based Netties that aren't based where they can draw torpedoes. That changes things. I need to recalculate. Let me do some more figuring.....

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 8:03:42 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin

How did you guys solve the problem of the insufficient replacement pilots? I tried a train-cycle of two months, but soon I was out of replacement pilots (a feature of the new beta patch?). So, I guess that a longer training cycle is pretty much forced on you.

The training cycle will decrease as the war drags on. The only other thing to do is to decrease frontline units and increase training units. I guess there's one more thing to do. Fight only where you must. In areas where no combat is occurring, I added rookies to the frontline units and train them. If combat occurs, I pull the rookies out. I try to get as many rookies training as possible.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 8:06:24 PM

Mike Solli

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That was weird. I started my response before you changed your comments and the quote showed the change. Different question. I haven't gotten to the point where I have run out of rookies. In Jan 43, your pilot pool increases dramatically. I would say, try to have your pool last through the end of 42.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 8:10:30 PM

Olorin

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Aye, thanks for the reply Mike. I just got into '43 and you' re right, it appears that Japan gets more than 1000 extra trainee pilots.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 8:12:02 PM

Mike Solli

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Yeah, you get the pilots, but you'll need them. I'm still convinced the quality will continue to decline as the war lengthens.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 8:15:14 PM

Mike Solli

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Here's something else to ponder. Let's say you have a Nettie unit on an island in the Pacific without torp capability. Why do you even need NavT capable pilots? That's a waste of training time. This is getting crazy. It also makes the 11 Air Fleet HQ a very important unit. It's got a command radius of 5. It's placement is critical. I still haven't placed it, by the way.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 3/31/2012 8:49:27 PM

ny59giants

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Naval HQs - Remember that a select few are also Command HQs. You want them to be able to be transported around the Pacific to allow some LCUs to upgrade. I have SE Fleet going around for the first patch of BFs that get extra medium flak upgrades and more support squads. Second, Naval HQs can supply torpedoes.

I moved the 5th Fleet to Rangoon to act as Command HQ for upgrades (makes it easier to reload larger warships too

). Since it is a Command HQ, I can use it to rebuild shattered divisions quicker (replacements daily vs every 3 days for those near Corp HQs) in Burma.

Naval pilots - I use some of those big FP groups that are restricted to Japan for NavB training. Don't forget to cycle those FPs groups through your CS to re-size them. They can be used to train naval pilots up and also fill in gaps in Naval Search. I get the E15K1 Norm FP in one month (8/43). They will replace all those land based Jake FP groups. Their range is 12/15!!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 2:41:56 AM

Icedawg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Naval HQs - Remember that a select few are also Command HQs. You want them to be able to be transported around the Pacific to allow some LCUs to upgrade. I have SE Fleet going around for the first patch of BFs that get extra medium flak upgrades and more support squads. Second, Naval HQs can supply torpedoes. I moved the 5th Fleet to Rangoon to act as Command HQ for upgrades (makes it easier to reload larger warships too ). Since it is a Command HQ, I can use it to rebuild shattered divisions quicker (replacements daily vs every 3 days for those near Corp HQs) in Burma.

Naval pilots - I use some of those big FP groups that are restricted to Japan for NavB training. Don't forget to cycle those FPs groups through your CS to re-size them. They can be used to train naval pilots up and also fill in gaps in Naval Search. I get the E15K1 Norm FP in one month (8/43). They will replace all those land based Jake FP groups. Their range is 12/15!!

ny59giants - are you sure about these points?

I also had heard that command HQs could provide torps, but in my experience it just doesn't seem to be the case. For example, if you start the GC and don't give the 3rd Air Division and 22nd Air Flotilla any torps, the Netties flying out of Saigon only use bombs. The Southern Army HQ is right there in Saigon with the Netties and it doesn't seem to be able to supply them with torpedoes.

With regard to the CS-resizing of the restricted float plane units - I thought restricted aircraft couldn't load onto ships. How do you get them to resize if they can't be transferred to the CS?

As for the Norm, I too like the looks of its range, but isn't its service rating a bit too high (3 vs the 1 for the Jake). And, if I recall, the second generation Jake gets some naval search radar that the Norm doesn't get. If you combine these aspects of the planes, the Jake looks to be a bit better overall. Just my $.02.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 3:34:38 AM

ny59giants

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quote:

ny59giants - are you sure about these points?

I also had heard that command HQs could provide torps, but in my experience it just doesn't seem to be the case. For example, if you start the GC and don't give the 3rd Air Division and 22nd Air Flotilla any torps, the Netties flying out of Saigon only use bombs. The Southern Army HQ is right there in Saigon with the Netties and it doesn't seem to be able to supply them with torpedoes.

With regard to the CS-resizing of the restricted float plane units - I thought restricted aircraft couldn't load onto ships. How do you get them to resize if they can't be transferred to the CS?

As for the Norm, I too like the looks of its range, but isn't its service rating a bit too high (3 vs the 1 for the Jake). And, if I recall, the second generation Jake gets some naval search radar that the Norm doesn't get. If you combine these aspects of the planes, the Jake looks to be a bit better overall. Just my $.02.

I was speaking about NAVAL HQs providing torpedoes. Air HQs can, but you have to go through spending supply for them.

I wish you could resize Restricted air units, I was referring to using some of them to train up pilots in NavB.

The 2nd generation Jakes get the radar in 10/44, but the airframe comes out in 11/44. So it will be early '45 before you have many to use. You could use both the Jakes and Norm on the same base to help out. The 2nd gen Jakes may end up on some of my BBs and CAs first.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 3:54:32 AM

Icedawg

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This is great news about Naval HQs. Who would have thought it would be possible to use them to resupply torps? I assume this only is the case for those that are also command HQs? So only ones like the 4th and 5th Fleets and the Southeast Area Fleet, but not those that are strict naval HQ's (Southern, 1st, 2nd etc)?

Regarding the float plane resizing - so you were only talking about the few in Japan that are not restricted? Makes good sense. Speeds up training by getting more pilot slots available.

Back to the Norm - what about that killer service rating? One of the important things about FPs is that they are in the air everyday (or at least you want them to be). Fewer planes in the air means less of an arc searched. So, comparing the Jake to the Norm, it basically comes down to a choice between:

A) A Jake unit with very nearly 100% of its planes service ready at a search range of 10-12

or

B) A Norm unit with maybe 50% of its planes service ready at a search range of 12-15

I'd definitely go with "A".

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 4:03:40 AM

Icedawg

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Mike,

I was wondering who you have commanding the Southern Army? I ask because I am in the process of starting a new GC and was thinking of replacing him (he's got some miserable leadership and land combat ratings) but I'm not sure what attributes are essential to army and corps HQs.

I know there was once a thread that spelled out the kinds of things a player should look for in commanders of different types of units, but I was unable to find it using the forum search function.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 4:17:06 AM

ny59giants

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My understanding is that ALL Naval HQs can supply torpedoes to planes. It might be that you need twice the supply required to make this happen, but I haven't had to rely on just a Naval HQ for torpedoes yet. Anyone got a better answer here??

I had mentioned the Command Naval HQs as Japan has so few Command HQS at all. You have Southern Command, China, and one at Tokyo. You need them to help out with LCU upgrades and rebuilding shattered divisions.

My game is the first for me as Japan to have reached '43. I'm now just into July '43 and the Norm comes out in August. It is some testing this time around and I will see if having the extra range vs higher service rating is that much of a problem. The range is not what you said (see screenshot).

Attachment (1)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 4:23:12 AM

Mike Solli

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Icedawg, I am so glad you asked this question! I never looked at the Southern Army commander. It's the original commander, Terauchi. His stats are:

Leadership: 30
Inspiration: 57
Land: 52
Aggressiveness: 65

I'm going to replace him with Watanabe:

Leadership: 73
Inspiration: 65
Land: 72
Aggressiveness: 63

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 4:29:33 AM

Mike Solli

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Guys, I never realized there were different types of naval HQs. What's the difference between a Naval HQ and a Naval Command HQ?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 4:39:00 AM

Cribtop

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Well, Command HQs can torp enable air groups and add to combat if in range. For example, I've got SE Fleet HQ at [censored] without an Air HQ and all air groups at [censored] carry torps. Also, as nygiants points out, Command HQs help LCUs recover and draw replacements.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 4:46:45 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Well, Command HQs can torp enable air groups and add to combat if in range. For example, I've got SE Fleet HQ at [censored] without an Air HQ and all air groups at [censored] carry torps. Also, as nygiants points out, Command HQs help LCUs recover and draw replacements.

OMG, I had no clue there were naval command HQs. Now I gotta look at what's what and where it is.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 5:05:39 AM

Cribtop

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SE Fleet, 5th Fleet and 4th Fleet as far as I know.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 5:33:05 AM

Mike Solli

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Yeah, I checked them out and that's the list I got.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/1/2012 1:29:00 PM

Teikoku Kaigun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yeah, I checked them out and that's the list I got.

What about those that arrive later? SW Fleet? It will probaly be in May that i can finally start an PBEM, and i will still learn day by day.=D

Btw, how much do you change leaders in different levels?

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