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RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/9/2012 9:47:32 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Was he in trouble for saying the C word? If not I don't see the problem with what he said and I fear for your nation of thought laws. You all are clearly lost. I am probably right to assume that the laws are never perused when the victim is white, much like hate crime laws here (which should be against the constitution in itself).

Sad to think that someone can be prosecuted for what they say. Very scary. Who determines which speech is acceptable? England is surely lost.
Warspite1

Capello resigned because he thought his authority had been undermined i.e. his choice of captain was sacked by the FA before he had been convicted of anything.

As far as what Terry is supposed to have done, yes, there are some high profile cases of double standards - one in particular recently that I cannot repeat because I will probably kill someone in anger while writing - HOWEVER, two wrongs do not make a right and what Terry is alleged to have done is totally and utterly unacceptable.

The FA has made great strides in combating racism in football, we really do not need to go back to the old days......





My point is that I don't see racism in what he said or a need to prosecute for anything anyone says. What a slippery slope it becomes.

And again I ask, was he suspended for calling him a C***?

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Post #: 31
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/9/2012 10:37:51 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Was he in trouble for saying the C word? If not I don't see the problem with what he said and I fear for your nation of thought laws. You all are clearly lost. I am probably right to assume that the laws are never perused when the victim is white, much like hate crime laws here (which should be against the constitution in itself).

Sad to think that someone can be prosecuted for what they say. Very scary. Who determines which speech is acceptable? England is surely lost.
Warspite1

Capello resigned because he thought his authority had been undermined i.e. his choice of captain was sacked by the FA before he had been convicted of anything.

As far as what Terry is supposed to have done, yes, there are some high profile cases of double standards - one in particular recently that I cannot repeat because I will probably kill someone in anger while writing - HOWEVER, two wrongs do not make a right and what Terry is alleged to have done is totally and utterly unacceptable.

The FA has made great strides in combating racism in football, we really do not need to go back to the old days......





My point is that I don't see racism in what he said or a need to prosecute for anything anyone says. What a slippery slope it becomes.

And again I ask, was he suspended for calling him a C***?
Warspite1

No Terry has not been sacked as captain for using the C word - that would count out just about every footballer in the country. He has been suspended for allegedly making a rascist remark - a remark that appears to have been captured on camera.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/9/2012 10:45:48 PM >


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Post #: 32
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/9/2012 10:57:37 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


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So you can call someone a C but not a black C? Not that I condone offensive language, but the thought of being prosecuted for what are in fact words is frightening to me and I want to make sure that under our constitution here, that could never be implemented. Total and complete thought control and another law that would never be evenly applied, much like our own unconstitutional 'hate' crimes laws.

Like I said, I can understand the suspension (not for what he said though) but the prosecution, no way. Most will be concerned when it is what they have to say that becomes illegal.

Goes back to the old saying that I may not agree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it.

Don't mean to hi-jack your thread but this topic interest me a lot.

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Post #: 33
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/9/2012 11:14:00 PM   
warspite1


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I don't see it as hijacking the thread Mo Reb - its all part and parcel of why Capello has gone.

I guess its just a very emotive subject.

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Post #: 34
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 12:36:08 AM   
ezzler

 

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 Capello had statistically the best win % of any England manager. He instilled a sense of discipline and duty when representing England  and led us to two near flawless qualifications.

Yet he won't be much missed. We seem to prefer someone who's a British bulldog. Has loads of passion and can shout from the touchline to get the players motivated.

I suggest Barbara Windsor. 

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Post #: 35
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 12:42:45 AM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I don't see it as hijacking the thread Mo Reb - its all part and parcel of why Capello has gone.

I guess its just a very emotive subject.


Sigh. I won't throw around my usual(accurate)insults.

In American football you can train and fight, and even kill, dogs without anything more than a short suspension.

< Message edited by parusski -- 2/10/2012 12:44:03 AM >


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Post #: 36
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 2:46:23 AM   
wodin


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ez, and one of the worst world cup performances I've seen England play. Terry Venables was the last decent England Manager (should have won Euor 96) and the it was Bobby Robson..Capello was awful compared to those two.

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Post #: 37
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 6:49:35 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

ez, and one of the worst world cup performances I've seen England play. Terry Venables was the last decent England Manager (should have won Euor 96) and the it was Bobby Robson..Capello was awful compared to those two.
Warspite1

Its difficult to get across to anyone that didn't witness it, just how bad that World Cup campaign was. I still do not understand what went wrong and how, an unusually smooth, England qualification could have turned into such a disastrous failure. Capello has a great managerial record over a number of years, with a number of clubs and that just makes what happened all the more unfathomable.

I agree on Terry Venables. Ask the players; he is the one that they really respected, he really knew his stuff, although he only had one campaign, and that was at home, having had automatic qualification. And remember, Sir Bobby's reputation was saved by Italia 90's semi-final. Remember how he was blasted and ridiculed by the press for the performance (almost as bad as World Cup 2010) in the Euros in 1988 - oh and the World Cup in 1986 when we were saved by the fact that Ray Wilkins got himself sent off and so Robson had to change the line-up; Beardsley and Lineker - the rest is history.


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Post #: 38
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 8:36:08 AM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

So you can call someone a C but not a black C?


Yup. There's a whole host of offences that are either 'racially aggregated', or it's a prescribed factor in determining sentences, from murder downwards. In general it does the reflect the mood of the nation on such issues - which is in itself a good thing (both the mood and the reflection), but in some cases there are obvious contradictions and, as in this case, absurdities. Needless to say if this just happened on the street nobody would have given a monkeys.

It's actually been pretty funny watching this play out. Virtually everybody really thinks Anton Ferdinand is an over sensitive prima donna who just should have kept his gob shut about something said in the heat of 'battle', as it were, but of course nobody can actually come out and say so, and the idiotic consequences keep on rolling.

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Post #: 39
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 9:06:14 AM   
Orm


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I feel that a captain of a team should behave in such maner that he is beyond reproach.

With that said I am not fully informed to make judgement in this case.

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Post #: 40
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 1:39:37 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper32
Mmmm King Kenny who paid £35 million for carrol,Sir Alex the jocks would love that, no its got to be Harry for me.


Well, Kenny would not need to BUY anyone for the national team so that is no big concern
Sir Alex, no matter how much I hate Utd, is a great coach, you do not bring a team to were Utd is today if you are not, doubt Utd will allow it though.
Harry seems the most likely candidate in my book too.


Anyway, a thread like this NEEDS this link



Terje

< Message edited by terje439 -- 2/10/2012 1:41:22 PM >


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Post #: 41
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 7:33:38 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper32
Mmmm King Kenny who paid £35 million for carrol,Sir Alex the jocks would love that, no its got to be Harry for me.


Well, Kenny would not need to BUY anyone for the national team so that is no big concern

Sir Alex, no matter how much I hate Utd, is a great coach, you do not bring a team to were Utd is today if you are not, doubt Utd will allow it though.
Harry seems the most likely candidate in my book too.


Anyway, a thread like this NEEDS this link


Terje
Warspite1

It has nothing to do with what United want; as a Scot, Ferguson would probably rather pull out his finger nails than bring success to England

Excellent You Tube clip by the way

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Post #: 42
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 7:58:56 PM   
Orm


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A bit off topic but who said the following: "Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win."

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Post #: 43
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 8:02:19 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

A bit off topic but who said the following: "Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win."
Warspite1

Gary Lineker - but I doubt he made it up.

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Post #: 44
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 8:02:40 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

ez, and one of the worst world cup performances I've seen England play. Terry Venables was the last decent England Manager (should have won Euor 96) and the it was Bobby Robson..Capello was awful compared to those two.
Warspite1

Its difficult to get across to anyone that didn't witness it, just how bad that World Cup campaign was. I still do not understand what went wrong and how, an unusually smooth, England qualification could have turned into such a disastrous failure. Capello has a great managerial record over a number of years, with a number of clubs and that just makes what happened all the more unfathomable.

I agree on Terry Venables. Ask the players; he is the one that they really respected, he really knew his stuff, although he only had one campaign, and that was at home, having had automatic qualification. And remember, Sir Bobby's reputation was saved by Italia 90's semi-final. Remember how he was blasted and ridiculed by the press for the performance (almost as bad as World Cup 2010) in the Euros in 1988 - oh and the World Cup in 1986 when we were saved by the fact that Ray Wilkins got himself sent off and so Robson had to change the line-up; Beardsley and Lineker - the rest is history.



No matter who the new manager is, he's got two years before the press turn on him. Unless the new man is Harry Redknapp when he's got four years...

What happened with Capello? Simple... We, as a nation, are not as good at football as we think we are. The players available are (for the most part) playing in 'the Best League in the World (tm, Sky Sports)' but they are not actually all that good. Pick any other top 10 nation in the world and see how many English players would actually make it into those squads. Taking the World Cup as an example, there is no way that Matthew Upson should have been anywhere near an international tournament.


I'd disagree with Capello being worse than Robson or Venables, despite the terrible World Cup the qualifying campaigns went well, but the team just could not beat nations who were actually better than we are.

IMO, Fabio did well with the resources he had available, inconsistent and over-rated players do not win tournaments.

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RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 8:04:01 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

A bit off topic but who said the following: "Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win."
Warspite1

Gary Lineker - but I doubt he made it up.

Gary Lineker did indead say that. And I have no idea who made it up.

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Post #: 46
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 8:04:57 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston


<snip> but in some cases there are obvious contradictions and, as in this case, absurdities. Needless to say if this just happened on the street nobody would have given a monkeys.




Unless they knew who it was, in that case they could probably expect a knock on the door...

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Post #: 47
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 8:14:33 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

ez, and one of the worst world cup performances I've seen England play. Terry
Venables was the last decent England Manager (should have won Euor 96) and the it was Bobby Robson..Capello was awful compared to those two.
Warspite1

Its difficult to get across to anyone that didn't witness it, just how bad that World Cup campaign was. I still do not understand what went wrong and how, an unusually smooth, England qualification could have turned into such a disastrous failure. Capello has a great managerial record over a number of years, with a number of clubs and that just makes what happened all the more unfathomable.

I agree on Terry Venables. Ask the players; he is the one that they really respected, he really knew his stuff, although he only had one campaign, and that was at home, having had automatic qualification. And remember, Sir Bobby's reputation was saved by Italia 90's semi-final. Remember how he was blasted and ridiculed by the press for the performance (almost as bad as World Cup 2010) in the Euros in 1988 - oh and the World Cup in 1986 when we were saved by the fact that Ray Wilkins got himself sent off and so Robson had to change the line-up; Beardsley and Lineker - the rest is history.



No matter who the new manager is, he's got two years before the press turn on him. Unless the new man is Harry Redknapp when he's got four years...

What happened with Capello? Simple... We, as a nation, are not as good at football as we think we are. The players available are (for the most part) playing in 'the Best League in the World (tm, Sky Sports)' but they are not actually all that good. Pick any other top 10 nation in the world and see how many English players would actually make it into those squads. Taking the World Cup as an example, there is no way that Matthew Upson should have been anywhere near an international tournament.

I'd disagree with Capello being worse than Robson or Venables, despite the terrible World Cup the qualifying campaigns went well, but the team just could not beat nations who were actually better than we are.

IMO, Fabio did well with the resources he had available, inconsistent and over-rated players do not win tournaments.
Warspite1

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Firstly I was not talking in terms of winning the tournament - losing to Germany is no disgrace. Just scrapping through a weak group, having played hopelessly, and then being trashed by Germany is underachieving.

Our players - well most of them - are not great, but they are better than they showed in South Africa. BTW, who picked Upson? The same man that picked Green over Hart...

Secondly to say a manager can only do a certain amount with a group of players and no more is surprising from a fellow football fan. Why is O'Neill's Sunderland in the top half of the table having won 7 out of 10 premiership games? Surely he should have the same record as Steve Bruce by your thinking?


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Post #: 48
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/10/2012 8:42:58 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Firstly I was not talking in terms of winning the tournament - losing to Germany is no disgrace. Just scrapping through a weak group, having played hopelessly, and then being trashed by Germany is underachieving.

Our players - well most of them - are not great, but they are better than they showed in South Africa. BTW, who picked Upson? The same man that picked Green over Hart...

Secondly to say a manager can only do a certain amount with a group of players and no more is surprising from a fellow football fan. Why is O'Neill's Sunderland in the top half of the table having won 7 out of 10 premiership games? Surely he should have the same record as Steve Bruce by your thinking?



Agree to disagree it is

I see what you're getting at. What I will say is that there is only so much you can do with a group of players. Sometimes it is possible to get that group punching above their weight and some managers are better than others at that, but that only goes to a certain level, you can't turn Sunderland into Man Utd for example. England are not Germany and they will not reach that level with any manager in charge. The manager can make a big difference, the Steve Bruce vs Martin O'Neill thing is an excellent example (I suspect Steve Bruce could have buggered up any team in the league though!). England are performing pretty much exactly where we 'should' be.

Before he dropped a bollock in South Africa would you have put Rob Green behind Joe Hart in the England team? I'm not sure I would have, despite the fact that Hart is a better keeper he hadn't had much experience of top level football at that time. You can only pick from what you've got, and away from the first choice players most alternatives look average at best. Goalkeepers for example: Joe Hart (bloody good). Scott Carson (meh) and David Stockdale (now we're desperate).

At the World Cup, we should have easily beaten Slovenia and Algeria. But failure to do so does not make Fabio a failure, any more than Man Utd losing to Blackburn or Basel.


P.S. If you're looking for underachievement in a manager, take a look at every Lincoln City manager since Keith Alexander.

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Post #: 49
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/11/2012 12:35:05 AM   
ezzler

 

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Harry Redknapp took over Tottenham when they were in the relegation zone.
Now they are third. With essentially the same squad. He has always done well, if only for a limited time before moving on. But clubs he has left have done worse without him.

But it doesn't really matter who we pick. We are poor at the Euros.
And the Germans seem to have gotten even better.

Germany {p}10 {w}10 {d}0 {L}0 {gf}34 {ga}7 {gd}+27 {pts}30

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Post #: 50
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/11/2012 8:36:59 PM   
warspite1


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Well that kind of scoreline will keep 'Arry top of the list won't it...

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RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/11/2012 8:42:08 PM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ezz

But it doesn't really matter who we pick. We are poor at the Euros.
And the Germans seem to have gotten even better.


'Tis true. I see Alan Shearer is already advising Harr.., er.. the next England manager to more or less forget about them and concentrate on the next World Cup. As to who gets the job I don't think Harry will leave Spurs in the lurch, but will take it if they can get a manager of suitable stature to replace him. I have this odd feeling the 'Special One' might just end up at the Lane, if only to occupy himself in the Premiership for a couple of years before taking over from Sir Alex at Old Trafford.

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Post #: 52
RE: Capello Gone!! - 2/11/2012 8:43:52 PM   
warspite1


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I don't think Spurs have enough money for the Special One sadly. I think he will head back to Chelsea - AVB is dead man walking.

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Post #: 53
RE: Capello Gone!! - 5/3/2012 11:39:15 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well, there's a turn up for the books - Don Fabio has resigned!! Who takes England to the Euros now??

And the answer is Roy Hodgson. What do you guys think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson

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Post #: 54
RE: Capello Gone!! - 5/3/2012 11:42:23 PM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well, there's a turn up for the books - Don Fabio has resigned!! Who takes England to the Euros now??

And the answer is Roy Hodgson. What do you guys think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson


I think you all know what I think.

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Post #: 55
RE: Capello Gone!! - 5/3/2012 11:47:42 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well, there's a turn up for the books - Don Fabio has resigned!! Who takes England to the Euros now??

And the answer is Roy Hodgson. What do you guys think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson


I think you all know what I think.

Yes. But on this subject I do not care what you think. I have high regard for your thoughts on most subjects but I would be pleased if you keep on ignoring soccer and put your focus on American handboll instead.


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Post #: 56
RE: Capello Gone!! - 5/3/2012 11:48:46 PM   
nate25


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Wait for it . . . Wait for it . . .

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Post #: 57
RE: Capello Gone!! - 5/3/2012 11:51:30 PM   
shunwick


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Well,

The problem is that Roy Hodgson is great manager for persuading 2nd rate players that they are good players. With the England job he has to find a way of persuading 2nd rate players who think they are superstars that they may be more than just kick and rushers.

Difficult one.

Best wishes,
Steve

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Post #: 58
RE: Capello Gone!! - 5/3/2012 11:54:38 PM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Wait for it . . . Wait for it . . .


Ah, wait for it my butt. Warspite1 does not frighten me. He would defend this NON-GAME if aliens threatened to destroy the earth, see below:

WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF SOCCER IS NOT ABOLISHED

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Post #: 59
RE: Capello Gone!! - 5/3/2012 11:55:50 PM   
nate25


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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Wait for it . . . Wait for it . . .


Ah, wait for it my butt. Warspite1 does not frighten me. He would defend this NON-GAME if aliens threatened to destroy the earth, see below:

WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF SOCCER IS NOT ABOLISHED


No, I thought you were gonna jump on Orm with both feet.


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