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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222)

 
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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/6/2012 8:05:28 PM   
KamilS

 

Posts: 1827
Joined: 2/5/2011
Status: offline 		T14 centre/south (Soviet)



All dignity is gone. I flee.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/6/2012 8:06:54 PM   
KamilS

 

Posts: 1827
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I try to establish new defensive line. Arrival of fresh divisions is extremely helpful.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 5/6/2012 8:07:30 PM >

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Post #: 122
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 2:25:57 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 2057
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Status: offline 		Saper using muling?

(in reply to KamilS)
Post #: 123
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 9:24:29 AM   
KamilS

 

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quote:

randallw

Saper using muling?




I don't know, I didn't ask him, but it seems likely considering insane speed of his panzers in early turns.

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Post #: 124
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 9:38:07 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Kamil, I don't understand why you are pulling back so far and so fast...what about checker-boarding or other means of slowing him down a bit?

(in reply to KamilS)
Post #: 125
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 10:01:09 AM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Saper using muling?


I doubt it. Kamil is running to fast and there is no problem to maintain 20-30MP for Panzers to follow up even without buildups.

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Post #: 126
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 4:11:16 PM   
KamilS

 

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quote:

76mm

Kamil, I don't understand why you are pulling back so far and so fast...what about checker-boarding or other means of slowing him down a bit?



Check out begining of this AAR. Saper's opening was very good, plus during turns 3-6 I lost plenty of troops. He achieved it only using his very mobile panzers, despite checkboarding and locking his spearheads in ZOCs.

After that I didn't have enough troops to prevent his panzers form pocketing more troops, so I was giving lots of ground.

By the time my army grew in numbers he was at the gate of Moscow so I had to concentrate my forces there, and to achieve it I had to weaken my lines elsewhere what has led to further withdrawals.



quote:

quote:
quote:


ORIGINAL: randallw
Saper using muling?


821Bobo

I doubt it. Kamil is running to fast and there is no problem to maintain 20-30MP for Panzers to follow up even without buildups.



Before You come to any conclusion look again at turns 3-6, when I was trying to fight and my forces were overrun - Axis players usually have problems with fuel in that period of campaign. He didn't. I haven't anticipated that and was punished.

Current withdrawals are consequence of losses suffered during these turns.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 127
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 4:52:39 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
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Status: offline 		He's muling.

Kamil, you need to start using reserves, man. Too much stacking and not enough depth. You could have slowed him to a crawl doing this in the Lake Ilmen area.




< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 5/7/2012 4:56:19 PM >

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(in reply to KamilS)
Post #: 128
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 5:33:17 PM   
KamilS

 

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quote:

Flaviusx

Kamil, you need to start using reserves, man. Too much stacking and not enough depth. You could have slowed him to a crawl doing this in the Lake Ilmen area.




Since turn 6th practically all my units are in reserve mode. Zhukov is the boss (I wanted someone with high Initiative), plus neither of fronts and armies are overloaded (surpuls is joining armies attached to STAVKA). Despite that and resasonable commanders the most I can get is 2-3:1 loss (majority of cruicial battles end like that) and not many reserves commited.

Not much luck.


Lack of depth is consequence of initial losses and his high mobility.

< Message edited by Kamil -- 5/7/2012 5:34:39 PM >

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Post #: 129
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 8:21:48 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
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Status: offline 		I dunno, Kamil, looking at your screenshots as far back as turn 11, I'm seeing way too much strength on the front line. You could easily have spread these guys around and gotten more depth and reserves in the Valdai Hills/Lake Ilmen area. The idea here is not necessarily to stop any single given combat, but increase confusion on the Axis side. It also tends to eat up a lot more enemy MPs, especially if they start overcompensating by putting in stronger attacks on single divisions defending a hex in order to account for reserves. Putting 3 guys up front can be cracked easily even with reserves and then the enemy exploits into the operational depth. Having 3 single divisions in three different positions in succession, each with the ability to gain reserve reaction, is a real pain in the neck for the offense and increases the chances of getting a hold result.


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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 11:41:04 PM   
KamilS

 

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Status: offline 		Hmm. Maybe, but at the end of the day I was loosing fight because despite good CV and commanders.

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Post #: 131
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/7/2012 11:52:06 PM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		Spreading three divisions with one up front and two in following hexes, with the other two in reserve, means you have less up front, but the two in reserve don't suffer attrition from being in contact, and also avoid the fatigue from being in contact ( really important! ).

(in reply to KamilS)
Post #: 132
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/8/2012 8:20:22 AM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil
Hmm. Maybe, but at the end of the day I was loosing fight because despite good CV and commanders.


heh, of course you've going to lose the battles, in this game that is a certainty. But it is better to force him to fight three winning battles than only one.

(in reply to KamilS)
Post #: 133
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/8/2012 9:03:27 AM   
KamilS

 

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Post #: 134
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/15/2012 9:11:17 PM   
KamilS

 

Posts: 1827
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I understand current situation less and less. Saper's tanks aren't spearheading his attack towards Moscow so his chances of creating big pocket are diminishing.


In the meantime Leningrad defences were breached. City will probably fall next turn.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/15/2012 9:12:41 PM   
KamilS

 

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No action.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/15/2012 9:14:59 PM   
KamilS

 

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Rostov pocket was recreated and GA "B" will be activated soon.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/15/2012 11:48:38 PM   
KamilS

 

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Withdrawal continues.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 5/15/2012 11:49:33 PM >

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Post #: 138
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/15/2012 11:50:06 PM   
KamilS

 

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I almost feel secure here.




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Post #: 139
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/15/2012 11:52:04 PM   
KamilS

 

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Sortie near Rostov should buy me one turn and let my avoid major disaster in this sector.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 5/16/2012 9:18:49 AM >

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 12:21:26 PM   
KamilS

 

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Practically no activity.




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Post #: 141
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 12:24:21 PM   
KamilS

 

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Germans made feeble attack towards Moscow. Obviously as usual main battles were narrowly lost. Nevertheless I think Moscow won't fall.




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Post #: 142
RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 12:26:33 PM   
KamilS

 

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He advances here too.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 12:29:39 PM   
KamilS

 

Posts: 1827
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Fate of brave defenders of Rostov is clear now.

Unfortunately Saper severed rail connecting southern regions to Stalingrad, so preparation for blizzard offensive will be little more challenging.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 5/19/2012 12:31:04 PM >

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 12:31:30 PM   
KamilS

 

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I am being pushed back here as well.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 1:22:21 PM   
KamilS

 

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Reinforcements arrive in great numbers now so I can spare few poor units to guard river Volga.




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(in reply to KamilS)
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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 1:24:35 PM   
KamilS

 

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Minor corrections here - shifting best units so they are in probable path of German thrust towards Moscow.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 1:26:38 PM   
KamilS

 

Posts: 1827
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One more turn of sunny weather left, so I think I am safe here.




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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 2:15:17 PM   
Balou


Posts: 841
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Status: offline 		Do you have any idea what the germans are looking for that far southeast of Rostov 2 weeks before mud ? Units will turn bright red for a couple of weeks, RR must be far away. The only apparent benefit would have been AGS to split in AGA and AGB, but no need to go beyond the "3 towns". In any case, i am curious to see what he's up to.

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RE: GC41 - Saper222 (Ger) vs Kamil (Sov) (No Saper222) - 5/19/2012 5:20:03 PM   
Tarhunnas


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From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Do you do any counterattacking? It seems there are several promising targets in the Moscow shot.

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